Just curious…
Did Robert have a Secretary?

or the overly touchy mods in the FB groups on top of the overly touchy people. At least they are wise enough to ban Cornelius out of pretty much every pinball group, I'll give them credit for that

EDIT- You say his name one time and he unblocks me on FB to ask why I am "obsessed" with him. Glad to see you're still watching us Corny. Hey, remember when you threatened to report me to IFPA and say that I could be a danger to "shoot up" a pinball event, because you were so outraged at my disparaging comments about Deeproot, a company that stole millions of dollars from little old ladies? Fun stuff. Maybe you can go back to calling everyone racist or homophobic while at the same time insinuating that I am gay and that it would be a bad thing if I was. Never change, sir.

I had an original pre-order. Spent 5 min on the the phone 2 weeks ago with Amex, and today got a letter from them letting me know that the investigation has concluded, and I got a full refund.

Ok, is the lesson learned buy with Amex versus any other credit card?

THat's like lesson 504 out of this whole thing.

The "lesson learned" is don't buy games that don't exist from companies that have produced nothing but promises and hot air.

That lesson will not be learned..

Exactly!

Even the hot air wasn't very good on this one.... Holy Crappy Caper Batman.

That hot air was RM talking out of his ass.

My point is don’t buy any existing or non existing game without using Amex card period.

Pretty soon schemers will wise up and quit accepting AXE payments ??? With keys to business accounts, American Express does what American Express wants. Moral of the story, don’t F with AXE. .

I think Levi's point was Don't buy a Non Existing Game - Period.

I agree with him on that one. Pinball buying 101

Just don't do it.

Keep your cash, put away your credit card and don't trade away your books of S&H Green stamps on any Non Existent game.

We are still playing this dumb game? Really?

A couple cobbled together prototypes does not mean a game exists, this has been proven time and time again in pinball scam after pinball scam. This was pointed out by countless people countless times during this con.

You sent these losers money and defended them for years with extreme conviction without seeing ANY evidence they could mass produce and ship a pinball machine. That was a mistake. Will you do it again sometime someone wows you with a flashy half-working prototype and 5 years worth of bullshit?

Comparing the RAZA scam to Stern "pre-order" is a pathetic rationalization and just makes it look like you haven't learned anything and are eager to get ripped off again. If you really can't understand the difference between what Deep Root was doing and what Stern does several times a year I'm hoping someone else has the keys to your bank account.

This feels like the longest charge dispute in history. Still going strong...

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I'm sorry to see that, it's my understanding these things take 30-40 days to resolve. What credit card did you use?

I used my Citi Prestige Card. It used to be a great card. They got rid of a lot of the concierge stuff they used to have. I should have used AMEX.

JPOP designed vehicle really has it all. Now we know what John was working on…. a souped up JPOOPER. A production model will be offered in one color …. jpurple.
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No, you shouldn't have put money into this in the first place.

Maybe a hard and expensive lesson to learn. Serious question, given the facts, if the next new shiny appeared and the story was similar, would you buy in?

Yup with an Amex card for a deposit. Low to no risk baby!

I think the point you are trying to make is pre-ordering Stern tables isn't zero risk either. This is true. However, I wouldn't use a 35 year old company with leading numbers of annual pinball tables produced and sold around the world as an equivalent risk comparison to Deeproot.

This is how legitimate business works. A new company secures start-up capital, uses that money to develop and produce a product that gets sold to distributors, then use those sales to sustain and grow the business.

What he meant was is that a business should not take money like all proper companies, not only Pinball companies. Nowadays there are more and more "businesses" trying to get money before having done through crowdfunding but that is not how it is supposed to go. A business takes the risk of making money or not, NOT the customer. Sell something when you have built it (in sufficient quantities) and you know it works, not before.

The great thing for these so called "companies" that want money upfront is, when they do make a lot of money, they get the profit, but if they fail the customer has to take the loss. Compare it to anything else you buy. Would you pre-pay a kitchen to someone that never made a kitchen and not even has any tools to make or even install that kitchen?

Everybody should just stop sending money to these clowns. Let them take the risk, they choose to start the company.

and so am I unhappy. Thanks for the thought Joe. I can't and won't say much. I will say this, as a distance collaborator I never understood how Deeproot was funded. When the SEC suit was revealed I was shocked and dismayed.

While I am frustrated with JJP's POTC being the last machine with a contribution from me rest assured that early next year there will be a new pin that has the best work I have done so far and I can hardly wait for the reveal.

I am out there working to provide the best audio for the pinball experience that I can and hopefully pinball players will be playing some new work soon.

David Thiel
Pinball Audio Artist.

Who's game is early next year David? Will keep my ears open!

My children are at the age where they’re starting to think of being a “doctor” or an “engineer” or even an “astronaut.” My reply will now be, why not shoot for the stars and go for “Pinball Audio Artist”… Hands down the most fantastic title I’ve ever seen.

Love your work David. (and especially Alien!)

If anyone hears whispers of another company going after the Goonies license for a game, and making one of their own, let me know. (I can also help get the license with WB if needed.)

I’ll be producing one in the back alley of my apartment building. Hell’s Kitchen Pinball’s The Goonies. Shipping Q2 2022.

Send money now!

A much better company name than deeproot ever was!

Haha, let’s do this!

I heard about a building in San Antonio that was recently vacated you might be able to rent pretty cheap. I think it would be perfect for pinball manufacturing. Might even have a SMD pick 'n place along w/a reflow machine just sitting there. And 4 Harbor Freight workbenches.

Gotta pay to clean the gym. Not cheap!

Quad manufacturing set up and ready to go!

Might it be that Amex is taking the loss themselves rather than having DR refunded Amex the money?

Might be asked before. But the games that where build and tested at the shows where are they ?

That’s a big unknown. I don’t know that there was more than 1 completely working Game tho?

I’m sorry have not followed the story lately, what has Ben happened at DR have any pins been shipped at all?

lol

Sorry this was an auto correct situation, I didn't mean to type Ben.

I was trying to ask

What has been happening at DR.. but the auto correct came out What has Ben happened at DR

Read the key posts in the other thread....should be pretty self explanatory.

oh you were serious!?

Yes, go read the other thread holy crap I don't even know where to start. No games got released. No games got finished even. Robert is under investigation by the SEC for stealing from old ladies. The buisiness was nothing more than Robert and his friends making horrible pie in the sky business decisions. THX sound, virtual reality assembly, holy crap there is just so much. Its the wildest story ever and everyone who bought in to any of his claims was a complete idiot, but even more than anyone could have ever imagined.

Oh wow, I hadn't looked at the other thread. Last I saw was when they were doing the announcements and the game features (PinBar etc.) I saw that and was not feeling anything good. I figured that they would have been shipping some (like Alien) but then ran into production hell.

I talked to Robert on the phone. He assured me everything is okay and I trust him cause he seems like a good guy. Send money.

Time to change subtitle of thread title to …. a whale-sized tale of ponzi-like fraud, arrogance, intimidation, incompetence and JPOP with a Texas rub plus AMEX bangbacks

Don't forget the enablers and pumpers in this thread.

On the bright side, I think RM and other similar examples in the last few years are helping me recognize this personality type and the trouble they can cause. Hopefully I can stay well clear of them.

Probably safest to apply the old adage, "How can you tell if they're lying? Their mouth is moving."

We’re going to need a bigger subtitle space.

This aged well. Glad I skipped.