(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

9 months ago


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  • 3,212 posts
  • 246 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 hours ago by UnholySpectacle
  • Topic is favorited by 91 Pinsiders

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“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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There are 3212 posts in this topic. You are on page 65 of 65.
#3201 3 days ago

I’m no expert and I could be reading this wrong but it appears the CC companies would have to refund you if you reported within 60 days. Everyone is way beyond that

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/what-do-if-youre-billed-things-you-never-got-or-you-get-unordered-products

Also see “Disputing credit card billing errors after the 60-day dispute period ends”

#3202 3 days ago
Quoted from RobT:

That sucks, but is not surprising. I found it to be more surprising that people were being successful with their chargebacks.

You are always going to be successful with your card company when this kinda crap happens and is reported but do not think for a minute these companies don't do their homework! Once they see the details and the fact you signed Roberts basic "your fucked" contract, I would be very surprised if anyone gets to keep their refunds. Sorry to say this and I know everyone deserves it back however you had the opportunity to cash out and once you rolled the dice the credit card companies are off the hook. Lets hope in some circumstances they miss this! Fingers crossed for all of you!

#3203 2 days ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

You are always going to be successful with your card company when this kinda crap happens and is reported but do not think for a minute these companies don't do their homework! Once they see the details and the fact you signed Roberts basic "your fucked" contract, I would be very surprised if anyone gets to keep their refunds. Sorry to say this and I know everyone deserves it back however you had the opportunity to cash out and once you rolled the dice the credit card companies are off the hook. Lets hope in some circumstances they miss this! Fingers crossed for all of you!

This is an interesting argument. I can certainly imagine the disreputable credit card banks utilizing this logic to rescind refunds.

Nevertheless, it's a specious argument. This is because refunds were essentially predicated upon delays as opposed to nondelivery. In other words, a buyer's deposit remained the consideration given in exchange for a nondelivered product. The fact that a buyer passed on one or more refund opportunities (while foolish) does not alter the immutable money for goods dynamic of the transaction.

The credit card companies can hang their hats on a variety of straightforward factors, particularly the long passage of time, to deny charge-backs. They probably don't need to dig deep into a refund time-line analysis to do so, if they're so inclined.

If a credit card company is consumer-oriented, all that will matter is that the deposit was taken and the product was not delivered (and never will be, given the SEC revelations and the closure of the deeproot facility). I imagine that credit card customers who regularly charge large sums to their cards will succeed, particularly with AMEX, whereas other cardholders will fail to recoup their deposits.

-2
#3204 2 days ago
Quoted from ZNET:

This is an interesting argument. I can certainly imagine the disreputable credit card banks utilizing this logic to rescind refunds.
Nevertheless, it's a specious argument. This is because refunds were essentially predicated upon delays as opposed to nondelivery. In other words, a buyer's deposit remained the consideration given in exchange for a nondelivered product. The fact that a buyer passed on one or more refund opportunities (while foolish) does not alter the immutable money for goods dynamic of the transaction.
The credit card companies can hang their hats on a variety of straightforward factors, particularly the long passage of time, to deny charge-backs. They probably don't need to dig deep into a refund time-line analysis to do so, if they're so inclined.
If a credit card company is consumer-oriented, all that will matter is that the deposit was taken and the product was not delivered (and never will be, given the SEC revelations and the closure of the deeproot facility). I imagine that credit card customers who regularly charge large sums to their cards will succeed, particularly with AMEX, whereas other cardholders will fail to recoup their deposits.

CC companies just pass the loss on to us. Thanks for gambling RAZA owners, non-buyers lost, you get your money back.

#3205 2 days ago

Visa and Mastercard are independent entities from banks, (BofA, Wells, etc.). The card company (Visa) may issue a refund; however, the investigation of a fraudulent charge and final approval (excepting various appeals processes) falls on the bank. Hence why you have the situation where the card co (Visa) said Ok, but the card issuer (BofA) said 'wait a minute'. While there are a number of t's and c's that are fairly black and white (like how long you have to claim a refund) the signed agreement does add an interesting wrinkle.

I have no idea what the agreement says and, therefore, what preorder people actually bought. Did they buy a game or just the right to reserve a spot in line to procure a game at a given price, if and when the game was produced? If the later, then DR and the bank could reasonably argue that the obligation was met per the agreement the customer signed. (Regardless, as ZNET notes, the ability to obtain a refund wouldn't make any difference .)

#3206 1 day ago

Yeah, all speculation w/out knowing what was signed. But to me - ‘non-refundable’ deposit sure sounds like exactly that — doesn’t matter if customer pays remainder later and gets product, changes mind and doesn’t pay remainder and no product, or company isn’t able to deliver product within timeframe. They haven’t technically folded, so from a credit dispute standpoint they just haven’t delivered a product within a timeframe.

Was that part of the contacts? Refunds will be given on deposits if we don’t deliver games by xxxx date? Or if we don’t make games?

If you paid in full, that’s another story.. but still seems like contract dependent ?

#3207 1 day ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

You are always going to be successful with your card company when this kinda crap happens and is reported but do not think for a minute these companies don't do their homework! Once they see the details and the fact you signed Roberts basic "your fucked" contract, I would be very surprised if anyone gets to keep their refunds. Sorry to say this and I know everyone deserves it back however you had the opportunity to cash out and once you rolled the dice the credit card companies are off the hook. Lets hope in some circumstances they miss this! Fingers crossed for all of you!

I hope for the best for you all, AMEX backed me in a crowdfunding gone wrong situation, but yes, for other cards I don't expect you will get or can keep the refund.

#3208 1 day ago

No refunds policy goes out the window when deeproot doesn’t deliver the goods in timely manner promised.

#3209 1 day ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

No refunds policy goes out the window when deeproot doesn’t deliver the goods in timely manner promised.

Whats a timely manner? Deeproots schedule or a Visa appointed bean counter who will see that there is "a" deeproot company still in existence and deny.

https://www.deeproot.com/

#3210 1 day ago

So can we get a recap of cards to purchase pins on in the future?

AMEX refunds
B of A Doesn’t
Others?

#3211 18 hours ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

So can we get a recap of cards to purchase pins on in the future?
AMEX refunds
B of A Doesn’t
Others?

Amex.

#3212 3 hours ago

Capital One told me no refund due to the timeframe. Thankfully it was only the 10% deposit.

There are 3212 posts in this topic. You are on page 65 of 65.

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