Quoted from NoQuarters:

"We" - What's that about ? You have a production line in your garage you didn't tell me about ?
Wrong thread anyway. This WAS the Raza preorder thread.
All this Lebowski stuff is just like your opinion man.....

Quoted from bmegar:

I put the deposit down when deeproot was taking preorders.I used a credit card.So even after 8 months I can still get a refund?

Quoted from bmegar:

I put the deposit down when deeproot was taking preorders.I used a credit card.So even after 8 months I can still get a refund?

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This whole "people getting their money back from the credit card company" thing is kind of a shocking epilogue to this tale, one I wish had happened a little earlier as I did a podcast last week recounting my take on this entire sordid odyssey.
Has there ever been a similar pinball scam where the pinball victims actually got their money back?
I wonder if Deep Root even notices. It just doesn't seem like scamming pinball people was ever the objective here. Seems like Mueller would have been happy to get you all your pins even if it meant stealing more money from old ladies.

Quoted from Zablon:

I wonder if COVID hadn't been what it was, if there would have been some actual games built. Part of me says no, because they claimed to have them ready to ship 2 months before COVID was considered an issue in the states - which means in reality, I don't even think they had ordered parts. I think money was already an issue before December.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

as I did a podcast last week recounting my take on this entire sordid odyssey.

Quoted from Mr68:

I wasn't aware you were doing podcasts. Got a link?

Quoted from Beechwood:

"...You serious Clark? "

Quoted from bmegar:

I put the deposit down when deeproot was taking preorders.I used a credit card.So even after 8 months I can still get a refund?

Quoted from Zablon:

Again, the question becomes if there was ever an intent to actually build games. Even if you factor in only incompetence, you would have thought some parts would have been ordered and a slow trickle of a few games at some point. So, it was either a scam or it wasn't. COVID gave a great excuse for delays, but still doesn't answer the question. ( and I'm referring to Dec 2019).

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Friend of mine does a gamer-related podcast, the JPop special ain’t out yet. I think it’s aimed at people who have never really heard anything about this so far. I’ll post a link when it’s out.

Quoted from Mr68:

Look forward to it. Hopefully you covered Christmas and other off-topics to manipulate the RAZA thread into silence. (wink, wink)

Quoted from Zablon:

Again, the question becomes if there was ever an intent to actually build games. Even if you factor in only incompetence, you would have thought some parts would have been ordered and a slow trickle of a few games at some point. So, it was either a scam or it wasn't. COVID gave a great excuse for delays, but still doesn't answer the question. ( and I'm referring to Dec 2019).

Quoted from bmegar:

I called my credit card issuer and was able to get a refund.I explained what happened.I put the deposit on a American Express card issued though Wells Fargo

Quoted from bob_e:

Has anyone seen inside the Deeproot facility?
Do they have any equipment to build pinball machines.
Their website once had the employees pictured with job description. Now a hint of games to be built.
https://deeprootpinball.com/about/upcoming-games

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

That’s a good point. If you are comfortable paying $5k for nib then you’ll need to wait a year and pickup a huo game. Not only will it cost less than msrp, but you avoid sales tax. Many benefits to this approach including ability to inspect playfield.

Quoted from cpr9999:

Be appreciative it could be 0% like RAZA.
Or would you rather they fold shop and give in?

Quoted from cpr9999:

So based on this logic you are saying F the EAs- claim bankruptcy now, reorganize and come back stronger position like PB/Aliens is doing. That is the easiest path for DP. And with a great game like Aliens proves people will buy again - same would happen for Lebowski pin.
Why slug it out for years to try to make whole on your commitments - just give up now? Dang that sounds to admirable.
Instead bash them into bankruptcy? Again while I get the past is not ideal (& we can bitch about it - but we can’t change it) the only thing we can change is how we move forward. DP is trying to do the right thing - albeit to slowly at least they are trying.
And DP is not in DR territory- not even close. DP has a manufacturing line producing games!
I just don’t get people. WTF
Bitch bitch bitch.

Quoted from Roostking:

Maybe you can't as easily declare bunkruptcy as easily in Europe as you can in the states?
[quoted image]

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Yeah enough pinball scam refunds and I wonder if the credit card industry will sour on this whole pinball business.
It’s obviously high risk considering the staggering percentage of the business that is “like buying a lottery ticket!” Rather than just a consumer product.
Last I checked you can’t buy lottery tickets with a credit card.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Tough to answer. For Me, (not speaking for others!) I made my decision and it was as easy as that. The emotion roller coaster you speak of (that I see) was the 30,000 plus posts of almost obsession. So if anything I felt no sorrow or remorse as I will simply buy a different toy. As for the “ugliness” you speak of yes there were a few that went over the top and oddly felt the need to make it personal with buying individuals which really was unnecessary. I admit I didn’t need to respond to a few of those individuals defensively but it was just simply Unnecessary to make this so personal! I nor Any DR Raza buyer took anyone’s money and I won’t be the guy to inappropriately poke the BHZA, Raza, Etc buyers for making a mistake. It’s just pinball. Just going to move on to the next game and enjoy time with family and friends.

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

It’s not just pinball. It’s been 10 straight years of perpetual fraud and ripoffs. Good for you getting your money back.

Quoted from hank527:

Yep. A fool and his money can always charge it back. I'm happy for those getting money back though the problem is not over.
Many of us are still screwed by Jpop. Discover wouldn't let me charge back my Alien preorder from Heighway LE #2
We should all have each other's backs with these sham artists. Yet it is clear we do not.

Quoted from Roostking:

If people would use even just a little common sense, they will see that many if these are scams. But some need to have the rare and newest. So we will always have scams and people getting scammed multiple times.

Quoted from iceman44:The mob tried to cancel TWIP and they may have been successful. Why?
You said it, “What in the ever living fuck”
I had a game coming from DR as a result of getting F Ed by Jpop in 2014.
Apologize for that? F that.
All the Debbie Downvoters can vote away. Like I said, have some balls and pick up the phone if it disturbs you that much.
Yelo? Way too nice of a guy and I commend him for basically just letting it go while he gets piled on by the mob

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

More revisionism and just outright speculation stated as fact. Do you ever tire of yourself? You must be exhausted, lugging all that bullshit around every single day of your life. I know I’m tired of it.

Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Quoted from DakotaMike:

Well, Levi wasn't exactly wrong. Pinball Bros. is still kinda the same company. Same dudes running the show, minus Andrew plus some Italians.

Quoted from DakotaMike:

Well, Levi wasn't exactly wrong. Pinball Bros. is still kinda the same company. Same dudes running the show, minus Andrew plus some Italians.

Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Precisely. Ice was conned into believing CGC was remaking it from the ASOA scam, and he told EVERYBODY this was happening right around the corner with intense conviction, including sending me several terse drunken PMs to this effect. Even convinced Kaneda, who made the famous "Ass tattoo" bet promising a Hilton buttcheek tat that I was making fun of and none of you hatin' buffoons apparently remember.
I was 100 percent correct that no different existing pinball company was going to be dumb enough to remake Aliens for all the reasons I stated. And of course they didn't; it was resurrected by remnants of the original cabal, and of course the game still seems to be a complete and total lemon based upon what I'm hearing, accompanied by the "who could see that coming" delays which will undoubtedly stretch into years for some lucky buyers.
So, long story short, kiss my Odin-tattooed ass! and I'll be happy to remind you I'm still the only person to actually collect on any of Ice's dumb bets, $100 worth of sweet, sweet Kentucky Bourbon, due to the fact that he was 100 percent wrong about his CGC Alien con and I was 100 percent correct.
Since some of you seem to have the memory of a goldfish, if you really want to relive the greatest hits of Pinside, here's the thread, which was originally titled "Is CGC Going to Manufacture Alien Pinball" Well, the answer of course, was no, and my posts have aged perfectly well:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-cgc-going-to-manufacture-alien-pinball

Quoted from iceman44:

Didn’t age well did it?

Quoted from iceman44:

I will say this of the entire experience.
It has made me want to sell pinball machines, which I’ve already started via a 3rd party, not buy any more in the future other than already being committed to Halloween.
So there you go, gonna whittle it down and figure out what’s left for me.
The whole thing is disgusting. You win. But thank you. I’m including the supposed friends that were afraid to step up and say something. The reality is…..it is what it is.
And I don’t think it’s very F ing positive either. Have a nice Labor Day and adios

Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Derp.
Double derp.

Quoted from iceman44:

I will say this of the entire experience.
It has made me want to sell pinball machines, which I’ve already started via a 3rd party, not buy any more in the future other than already being committed to Halloween.
So there you go, gonna whittle it down and figure out what’s left for me.
The whole thing is disgusting. You win. But thank you. I’m including the supposed friends that were afraid to step up and say something. The reality is…..it is what it is.
And I don’t think it’s very F ing positive either. Have a nice Labor Day and adios

Quoted from toyotaboy:

This hobby is only as dramatic as you make it. It's just pinball man.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Wait, Ice is leaving again?
Well, Happy Labor Day I guess. We will miss him. Again.

Quoted from Rarehero:

Who?

Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Quoted from RobT:

Frankly, if Iceman stops reading/posting on Pinside, he could very well wind up enjoying the pinball hobby more, not less. And that goes for many of us in my experience.

Quoted from Tranquilize:

Ice makes Pinside fun. When he comes back, I will celebrate.