(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

11 months ago


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  • 3,298 posts
  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by jeffspinballpalace
  • Topic is favorited by 89 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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There are 3,298 posts in this topic. You are on page 63 of 66.
#3101 84 days ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

"We" - What's that about ? You have a production line in your garage you didn't tell me about ?
Wrong thread anyway. This WAS the Raza preorder thread.
All this Lebowski stuff is just like your opinion man.....

Well your “aggression will not stand…man!”

Fixed “We” for yah

#3102 84 days ago

Ya know this thread is like bowling….”some strikes, some gutters and some ups, some downs”….Much like NoQuarters playing ability…..and mine.

#3103 84 days ago
Quoted from bmegar:

I put the deposit down when deeproot was taking preorders.I used a credit card.So even after 8 months I can still get a refund?

I was denied at first by BOA. Then I called back telling them how visa, discover and amex were issuing refunds and they got on board. Had to send screenshots of all deeoroot updates and show money was just deposit and how they kept stringing me along with their monthly excuses. Good luck.

#3104 84 days ago

This whole "people getting their money back from the credit card company" thing is kind of a shocking epilogue to this tale, one I wish had happened a little earlier as I did a podcast last week recounting my take on this entire sordid odyssey.

Has there ever been a similar pinball scam where the pinball victims actually got their money back?

I wonder if Deep Root even notices. It just doesn't seem like scamming pinball people was ever the objective here. Seems like Mueller would have been happy to get you all your pins even if it meant stealing more money from old ladies.

#3105 84 days ago
Quoted from bmegar:

I put the deposit down when deeproot was taking preorders.I used a credit card.So even after 8 months I can still get a refund?

Others have. Tell your cc company deeproot is the subject of a huge sec fraud investigation and missed their deadlines and that would be hard to argue with

#3106 84 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This whole "people getting their money back from the credit card company" thing is kind of a shocking epilogue to this tale, one I wish had happened a little earlier as I did a podcast last week recounting my take on this entire sordid odyssey.
Has there ever been a similar pinball scam where the pinball victims actually got their money back?
I wonder if Deep Root even notices. It just doesn't seem like scamming pinball people was ever the objective here. Seems like Mueller would have been happy to get you all your pins even if it meant stealing more money from old ladies.

I wonder if COVID hadn't been what it was, if there would have been some actual games built. Part of me says no, because they claimed to have them ready to ship 2 months before COVID was considered an issue in the states - which means in reality, I don't even think they had ordered parts. I think money was already an issue before December.

#3107 84 days ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I wonder if COVID hadn't been what it was, if there would have been some actual games built. Part of me says no, because they claimed to have them ready to ship 2 months before COVID was considered an issue in the states - which means in reality, I don't even think they had ordered parts. I think money was already an issue before December.

"...You serious Clark? "

#3108 84 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

as I did a podcast last week recounting my take on this entire sordid odyssey.

I wasn't aware you were doing podcasts. Got a link?

#3109 84 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I wasn't aware you were doing podcasts. Got a link?

Friend of mine does a gamer-related podcast, the JPop special ain’t out yet. I think it’s aimed at people who have never really heard anything about this so far. I’ll post a link when it’s out.

#3110 84 days ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

"...You serious Clark? "

Again, the question becomes if there was ever an intent to actually build games. Even if you factor in only incompetence, you would have thought some parts would have been ordered and a slow trickle of a few games at some point. So, it was either a scam or it wasn't. COVID gave a great excuse for delays, but still doesn't answer the question. ( and I'm referring to Dec 2019).

#3111 84 days ago
Quoted from bmegar:

I put the deposit down when deeproot was taking preorders.I used a credit card.So even after 8 months I can still get a refund?

Yes absolutely.

#3112 84 days ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Again, the question becomes if there was ever an intent to actually build games. Even if you factor in only incompetence, you would have thought some parts would have been ordered and a slow trickle of a few games at some point. So, it was either a scam or it wasn't. COVID gave a great excuse for delays, but still doesn't answer the question. ( and I'm referring to Dec 2019).

I think incompetence, not intent, is what prevented machines ever getting finished

#3113 84 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Friend of mine does a gamer-related podcast, the JPop special ain’t out yet. I think it’s aimed at people who have never really heard anything about this so far. I’ll post a link when it’s out.

Look forward to it. Hopefully you covered Christmas and other off-topics to manipulate the RAZA thread into silence. (wink, wink)

#3114 84 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Look forward to it. Hopefully you covered Christmas and other off-topics to manipulate the RAZA thread into silence. (wink, wink)

And have you been a good boy Mr68

Wink wink!

#3115 84 days ago

I called my credit card issuer and was able to get a refund.I explained what happened.I put the deposit on a American Express card issued though Wells Fargo

-1
#3116 84 days ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Again, the question becomes if there was ever an intent to actually build games. Even if you factor in only incompetence, you would have thought some parts would have been ordered and a slow trickle of a few games at some point. So, it was either a scam or it wasn't. COVID gave a great excuse for delays, but still doesn't answer the question. ( and I'm referring to Dec 2019).

Has anyone seen inside the Deeproot facility?
Do they have any equipment to build pinball machines.
Their website once had the employees pictured with job description. Now a hint of games to be built.
https://deeprootpinball.com/about/upcoming-games

#3117 84 days ago
Quoted from bmegar:

I called my credit card issuer and was able to get a refund.I explained what happened.I put the deposit on a American Express card issued though Wells Fargo

So that is the best learning, always use AMEX for deposits, they are the easiest to get a refund. But it can lead to that AMEX will charge pinball companies more or will not accept pinball vendors anymore as it becomes a risky category like adult sites.

#3118 84 days ago

Yeah enough pinball scam refunds and I wonder if the credit card industry will sour on this whole pinball business.

It’s obviously high risk considering the staggering percentage of the business that is “like buying a lottery ticket!” Rather than just a consumer product.

Last I checked you can’t buy lottery tickets with a credit card.

#3119 84 days ago
Quoted from bob_e:

Has anyone seen inside the Deeproot facility?
Do they have any equipment to build pinball machines.
Their website once had the employees pictured with job description. Now a hint of games to be built.
https://deeprootpinball.com/about/upcoming-games

The building was abandoned at least a month ago, probably longer.
Here's a link to pictures posted August 28th.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/495#post-6466575

#3120 84 days ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

That’s a good point. If you are comfortable paying $5k for nib then you’ll need to wait a year and pickup a huo game. Not only will it cost less than msrp, but you avoid sales tax. Many benefits to this approach including ability to inspect playfield.

$5k for NIB...

#3121 84 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Be appreciative it could be 0% like RAZA.
Or would you rather they fold shop and give in?

You should post this dr positive, in the positive vibes thread. Nothing says positive like "at least your aren't..."

#3122 84 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

So based on this logic you are saying F the EAs- claim bankruptcy now, reorganize and come back stronger position like PB/Aliens is doing. That is the easiest path for DP. And with a great game like Aliens proves people will buy again - same would happen for Lebowski pin.
Why slug it out for years to try to make whole on your commitments - just give up now? Dang that sounds to admirable.
Instead bash them into bankruptcy? Again while I get the past is not ideal (& we can bitch about it - but we can’t change it) the only thing we can change is how we move forward. DP is trying to do the right thing - albeit to slowly at least they are trying.
And DP is not in DR territory- not even close. DP has a manufacturing line producing games!
I just don’t get people. WTF
Bitch bitch bitch.

Maybe you can't as easily declare bunkruptcy as easily in Europe as you can in the states?

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#3123 84 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Maybe you can't as easily declare bunkruptcy as easily in Europe as you can in the states?
[quoted image]

Easy peasy

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-1
#3124 84 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Yeah enough pinball scam refunds and I wonder if the credit card industry will sour on this whole pinball business.
It’s obviously high risk considering the staggering percentage of the business that is “like buying a lottery ticket!” Rather than just a consumer product.
Last I checked you can’t buy lottery tickets with a credit card.

Yeah, Amex at 10.9 Billion in annual revenue will certainly flag pinball as a scary business.

#3125 84 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Tough to answer. For Me, (not speaking for others!) I made my decision and it was as easy as that. The emotion roller coaster you speak of (that I see) was the 30,000 plus posts of almost obsession. So if anything I felt no sorrow or remorse as I will simply buy a different toy. As for the “ugliness” you speak of yes there were a few that went over the top and oddly felt the need to make it personal with buying individuals which really was unnecessary. I admit I didn’t need to respond to a few of those individuals defensively but it was just simply Unnecessary to make this so personal! I nor Any DR Raza buyer took anyone’s money and I won’t be the guy to inappropriately poke the BHZA, Raza, Etc buyers for making a mistake. It’s just pinball. Just going to move on to the next game and enjoy time with family and friends.

It’s not just pinball. It’s been 10 straight years of perpetual fraud and ripoffs. Good for you getting your money back.

#3126 84 days ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

It’s not just pinball. It’s been 10 straight years of perpetual fraud and ripoffs. Good for you getting your money back.

Yep. A fool and his money can always charge it back. I'm happy for those getting money back though the problem is not over.

Many of us are still screwed by Jpop. Discover wouldn't let me charge back my Alien preorder from Heighway LE #2

We should all have each other's backs with these sham artists. Yet it is clear we do not.

#3127 83 days ago
Quoted from hank527:

Yep. A fool and his money can always charge it back. I'm happy for those getting money back though the problem is not over.
Many of us are still screwed by Jpop. Discover wouldn't let me charge back my Alien preorder from Heighway LE #2
We should all have each other's backs with these sham artists. Yet it is clear we do not.

If people would use even just a little common sense, they will see that many if these are scams. But some need to have the rare and newest. So we will always have scams and people getting scammed multiple times.

-1
#3128 83 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

If people would use even just a little common sense, they will see that many if these are scams. But some need to have the rare and newest. So we will always have scams and people getting scammed multiple times.

Less people getting scammed these days if they use CC’s we just learned. Nice.

#3129 83 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:The mob tried to cancel TWIP and they may have been successful. Why?
You said it, “What in the ever living fuck”
I had a game coming from DR as a result of getting F Ed by Jpop in 2014.
Apologize for that? F that.
All the Debbie Downvoters can vote away. Like I said, have some balls and pick up the phone if it disturbs you that much.
Yelo? Way too nice of a guy and I commend him for basically just letting it go while he gets piled on by the mob

More revisionism and just outright speculation stated as fact. Do you ever tire of yourself? You must be exhausted, lugging all that bullshit around every single day of your life. I know I’m tired of it.

21
#3130 83 days ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

More revisionism and just outright speculation stated as fact. Do you ever tire of yourself? You must be exhausted, lugging all that bullshit around every single day of your life. I know I’m tired of it.

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo!

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#3131 83 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Didn’t age well did it?

#3132 83 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Well now, this just got interesting.

#3133 83 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Well, Levi wasn't exactly wrong. Pinball Bros. is still kinda the same company. Same dudes running the show, minus Andrew plus some Italians.

#3134 83 days ago

This thread is finally dying when credit cards and other pins matter more.

Even Benny has given up and spit the bit

#3135 83 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Well, Levi wasn't exactly wrong. Pinball Bros. is still kinda the same company. Same dudes running the show, minus Andrew plus some Italians.

It’s a different pinball company so he’s 100% wrong. And nobody cares really

But this thread is about Raza

#3136 83 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Well, Levi wasn't exactly wrong. Pinball Bros. is still kinda the same company. Same dudes running the show, minus Andrew plus some Italians.

Precisely. Ice was conned into believing CGC was remaking it from the ASOA scam, and he told EVERYBODY this was happening right around the corner with intense conviction, including sending me several terse drunken PMs to this effect. Even convinced Kaneda, who made the famous "Ass tattoo" bet to his legions of passionate followers, promising a Hilton buttcheek tat that I was making fun of and none of you hatin' buffoons apparently remember.

I was 100 percent correct that no different existing pinball company was going to be dumb enough to remake Aliens for all the reasons I stated. And of course they didn't; it was resurrected by remnants of the original cabal, and of course the game still seems to be a complete and total lemon based upon what I'm hearing, accompanied by the "who could see that coming" delays which will undoubtedly stretch into years for some lucky buyers.

So, long story short, kiss my Odin-tattooed ass! and I'll be happy to remind you I'm still the only person to actually collect on any of Ice's dumb bets, $100 worth of sweet, sweet Kentucky Bourbon, due to the fact that he was 100 percent wrong about his CGC Alien con and I was 100 percent correct.

Since some of you seem to have the memory of a goldfish, if you really want to relive the greatest hits of Pinside, here's the thread, which was originally titled "Is CGC Going to Manufacture Alien Pinball" Well, the answer of course, was no, and my posts have aged perfectly well:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-cgc-going-to-manufacture-alien-pinball

#3137 83 days ago

I will say this of the entire experience.

It has made me want to sell pinball machines, which I’ve already started via a 3rd party, not buy any more in the future other than already being committed to Halloween.

So there you go, gonna whittle it down and figure out what’s left for me.

The whole thing is disgusting. You win. But thank you. I’m including the supposed friends that were afraid to step up and say something. The reality is…..it is what it is.

And I don’t think it’s very F ing positive either. Have a nice Labor Day and adios

#3138 83 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Derp.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Precisely. Ice was conned into believing CGC was remaking it from the ASOA scam, and he told EVERYBODY this was happening right around the corner with intense conviction, including sending me several terse drunken PMs to this effect. Even convinced Kaneda, who made the famous "Ass tattoo" bet promising a Hilton buttcheek tat that I was making fun of and none of you hatin' buffoons apparently remember.
I was 100 percent correct that no different existing pinball company was going to be dumb enough to remake Aliens for all the reasons I stated. And of course they didn't; it was resurrected by remnants of the original cabal, and of course the game still seems to be a complete and total lemon based upon what I'm hearing, accompanied by the "who could see that coming" delays which will undoubtedly stretch into years for some lucky buyers.
So, long story short, kiss my Odin-tattooed ass! and I'll be happy to remind you I'm still the only person to actually collect on any of Ice's dumb bets, $100 worth of sweet, sweet Kentucky Bourbon, due to the fact that he was 100 percent wrong about his CGC Alien con and I was 100 percent correct.
Since some of you seem to have the memory of a goldfish, if you really want to relive the greatest hits of Pinside, here's the thread, which was originally titled "Is CGC Going to Manufacture Alien Pinball" Well, the answer of course, was no, and my posts have aged perfectly well:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-cgc-going-to-manufacture-alien-pinball

Quoted from iceman44:

Didn’t age well did it?

Double derp.

-2
#3139 83 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I will say this of the entire experience.
It has made me want to sell pinball machines, which I’ve already started via a 3rd party, not buy any more in the future other than already being committed to Halloween.
So there you go, gonna whittle it down and figure out what’s left for me.
The whole thing is disgusting. You win. But thank you. I’m including the supposed friends that were afraid to step up and say something. The reality is…..it is what it is.
And I don’t think it’s very F ing positive either. Have a nice Labor Day and adios

LO f’in L.

#3140 83 days ago

Triple Derp.

Quadruple Derp.

15
#3141 83 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I will say this of the entire experience.
It has made me want to sell pinball machines, which I’ve already started via a 3rd party, not buy any more in the future other than already being committed to Halloween.
So there you go, gonna whittle it down and figure out what’s left for me.
The whole thing is disgusting. You win. But thank you. I’m including the supposed friends that were afraid to step up and say something. The reality is…..it is what it is.
And I don’t think it’s very F ing positive either. Have a nice Labor Day and adios

Another Iceman, woe is me, I'm taking my ball and going home, drain drama. - I'm sorry your date for prom night stood you up, Dougie.

11
#3142 83 days ago

This hobby is only as dramatic as you make it. It's just pinball man.

17
#3143 83 days ago
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#3144 83 days ago

Wait, Ice is leaving again?

Well, Happy Labor Day I guess. We will miss him. Again.

#3145 83 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

This hobby is only as dramatic as you make it. It's just pinball man.

Truer words have never been spoken on this forum.

Frankly, if Iceman stops reading/posting on Pinside, he could very well wind up enjoying the pinball hobby more, not less. And that goes for many of us in my experience.

#3146 82 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Wait, Ice is leaving again?
Well, Happy Labor Day I guess. We will miss him. Again.

Who?

#3147 82 days ago

Otis from Mayberry

-3
#3148 82 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Here’s speculation- that now requires a tattoo![quoted image]

Why would you go through someone’s posts from 2 years ago and repost. That is so UNCOOL.
What in the heck is wrong with you?

#3149 82 days ago
Quoted from RobT:

Frankly, if Iceman stops reading/posting on Pinside, he could very well wind up enjoying the pinball hobby more, not less. And that goes for many of us in my experience.

Ice makes Pinside fun. When he comes back, I will celebrate.

#3150 82 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Ice makes Pinside fun. When he comes back, I will celebrate.

Agreed.

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