Yeesh. 9 days before the SEC release.

This also confirms the cell phone I found for him.

Well, he may have a cell phone now, but he won't have a phone in his cell at the end of all this.

Is it active?
I would be calling to find out what’s up if I had a deposit.

Voicemail greeting was Robert. Didn't leave a message.

What's the point? Liar's gonna lie.

Yes you did, along with commentary.

Here's another.

Report from FA Financial Advisor
"The scheme, which played out between 2015 and February 2021, involved nearly 300 investors, many of whom were retirees, the SEC said.

The SEC complaint alleged that Mueller and deeproot Funds were investment advisors to two pooled investment funds that Mueller created. According to the complaint, Mueller and deeproot convinced the investors to cash out annuities and individual retirement accounts they held with other investment companies and put the assets in his two funds."

You went to the source to get some answers and he was denying any big problems only a few weeks ago and that somehow this "legal mess" wasn't his creation and he could resolve it quickly. Days later the building is empty and of course we now know the scope of the "legal mess".

I'm curious, at the time you received his email, how did you receive his words then? Did you believe him?

Simple answers = Yes with doubts.

Reason for that is I had a very open direct line of communication with RM via dozens of email and phone conversations that always keep me hopeful with Deeproots progress. (No other options anyway)

The emails are very descriptive including the amount of games sold during the pre-order back in January. (#122)

We also discussed a few design options like limited color laser etched numbers on the apron of all machines so that the owners would have special machines. (Supposedly this etching machine is in the factory)

As far as I could tell the Deeproots team/employees were busy producing these pins and just a few key parts and shipping would begin. (Better then no news or bad news)

It really sounded like this was very close to happening.

Call me up. I can tell you what you want to hear too…

It's really unfortunate when we get betrayed by people. I certainly understand wanting to take someone at their word when they directly answer you. Hard to protect yourself from that type of deceit.

When I think about my time with jpop at Zidware, he stopped answering the questions he didn't want to answer. He dribbled out crumbs of art on a regular basis to show "progress". He never said he was weeks away from delivering my machine.

Thanks for the kind advise.

One common aspect of all cons is the immediate demand for money. There is a tight deadline given, usually now, and money is due if you want the product. There is not enough time allowed to wait around and see if the company is doing what it has promised. So you have to act blindly and with full faith. Conversely, if you find yourself in a pressure situation demanding that you act and spend money right away and you don’t feel comfortable, don’t act. Let the opportunity pass and see how things pan out and then make a move. There is always a chance to buy a HUO or even NIB pin later. The same goes for buying Stern nib. Make sure you want it before you buy it.

The time frame here isn't years either. I'd say good odds.

Yeah if you purchased with a CC I’d be hitting up the CC Co, unless you still believe there’s a chance you’re getting a RAZA

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I assume you’re just pulling our legs, and didn’t really place an order? Why would you tell us what you’re REALLY doing with your money? It’s none of our business, right?

Well, there’s always .....

Always 1 Assh**e in the group..

Well, the thing is, a lot of these scammers are good at convincing people that everything is fine. Especially over the phone. That's one of their tricks.

People always came away feeling great after talking to Andrew Heighwey.

I have faith that he will deliver the product. I haven't received any shipping notifications yet though

He's a correct asshole. Being willing to accept reassurances from the scammer is one key to getting scammed. Of course RM is going to tell you what you want to hear, he wants more of your money! What else is he going to say?

Folks need to listen to everyone, including the critics.

Man can Ice scrub and purge all of his all post???

LMAO..."factory"...

The ease with which these pinball con men can lie to their marks borders on the sociopathic. We've seen it so many times now.

It really is such a thin line. It's so EASY to be a fuckin criminal and steal people's money. I've done ok in this hobby, but I can't help but wonder how much more wealth I would have acquired if I was just willing to lie to everybody, all of the time.

Probably 58 million give or take..

Worked on this picture YEARS ago...

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Hey I’m sorry you took that the wrong way but I hope you understood what I’m saying regardless…

Lol you read his post and think I’m wrong? You got some serious sensitivity between the legs man. Clearly smoke was being blown up his ass. Sorry my wise crack didn’t cup em the way you like…

All 100% spot f ing on!!!!

The SEC came in and stopped the Ponzi. Granted, I did not know how bad it really was. Nobody did. The employees certainly didn’t.

Hard to believe he was that stupid

I’ve got plenty of “commentary” on how this was funded and structured from day one

Yeah I don’t need to purge anything. Go read em all from day one if it makes the haters happy.

Post em up. Every comment

I haven’t talked to anyone that’s actually lost anything because of that. Maybe someone walked into DR with a bag of cash but I highly doubt it.

I know some of you guys get off on hoping people lose money here but if anybody did it’s “nominal”

The investors in DR, that’s another story and as I always said the MUCH BIGGER PICTURE

FFS!!! Ignorance is bliss right? If so you are some happy happy campers

No “direct investors” into the pinball company. Not ONE of those 300 had a clue. And I posted about many times for years

Go back and read the whole context but it appears you are having difficulty with reading comprehension.

And they still have the money to “finish it off”. The SEC rightly shut it down

Images.

9D6C8C2B-7137-4278-91C3-80CEDE186758 (resized).jpeg

DA364D4E-EE3A-480E-A80D-7D64598CABF1 (resized).jpeg

The clouds look great in that first picture.

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You read my mind.

I did just that, and Ice, I owe you an apology. I was wrong for saying that you said the 575 wasn't funding the pinball division. Quite the opposite, you said that it likely was indeed funding it. I could explain why I thought you had said it didn't, but it doesn't matter. I was wrong. My bad man

That’s a nice gesture Haymaker. (Not being sarcastic). Thumbs up in my book.

So it appears DR will likely not pull out of this tailspin so as planned I simply executed the emergency chute (out plan) and in only 3 days AMEX confirmed the “lack of product delivered” and Fully refunded every penny. I waited for the full remittance of payment before advising which is now complete. So #kklank (the second order a few were so bothered by?) we are fully refunded without loosing a moment of sleep on or any investigation. We liked to call it a bet but in all honesty the wager bet was hedged with AMEX so it was a win either way. Deposit is already transferred to CCrLE so still ends up a win to me. Anyone with a CC deposit or full payment just call your CC company. Took Maybe 3 minutes to do! Simple.

As a closing statement I will answer (for Me) the why did I buy question. (Granted it was still my decision so it doesn’t matter?)
1. It was a cool ass game! I personally liked the changes and opted to judge it on My Opinion not that of others. I did however find it odd that so many called it crap, etc even though many were first round buyers or even in on the original project? Odd. Nonetheless I thought it would be an interesting title to share with friends and visitors.
2. Much like TBL. (For me) I viewed this long shot as a very small possibility to make those that invested (and lost) in Zidware Some chance to get Something for their loss. At the start of DR they had Nothing with only a 100% loss. My wager (like the current TBL) was IF enough people supported this game they Could possibly catch a Hail Mary and possibly be made whole to some extent. I (as was #kklank) willing to bet on Them. Sadly the play (wager) didn’t pan out but I would do it again!

We (KK and I) hedged a bet on DR. Didn’t loose any money but sadly his side investors (and past) did so still not a happy ending unfortunately.

Buying a pinball machine isn’t supposed to be “a bet.”

I just don’t get this mentality. It promotes the continued creation of these unending pinball scams.

Glad you got your money back at least. I wonder if the elderly investors charged their $58 million via Amex.

Either he's a liar asshole or a complete moron. Neither is good.

I said that jokingly as many were referring to it as a bet. I noted Why I bought a machine. I just buy what I like if it’s what I want. I bet on horses and in Vegas. As for the “other” fund management investors while sad not really something I or we had any control of.

The main takeaway from Yelobird's post for me is that AMEX kicks ass.

Wonder if anybody who paid with a lowly Visa card was able to claw back their “lottery ticket.”

Yes. Another “buyer” friend used MasterCard same refund result. Apple Card I think?

My takeaway (complaint) is that we sadly lost Jeff over this shit (as a final nail in the coffin it seems).

https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-hiatus/

Just like when I buy a pinball from other companies I could careless about who there investors are. Not my worry.

Do you track down Stern, JJP, etc investors??

Of course no one wants to see what happened to DR investors, but focus to your point on why you would buy a game. Not for a bet, not for investors, etc. Buy because it is a theme you like.

And buy on a CC is the lesson.

Well at least he didn't say it was permanent.