(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

10 months ago


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  • Latest reply 11 days ago by ronaldvg
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“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
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(52 votes)

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15
#2651 66 days ago

I want to know where some of the people who defended Robert and Jpoop over and over are.

It was sickening the support these scumbags were given by this community.

The writing was certainly on the wall. I lost to Jpop, Kevin, and Andrew. All this time those who cheered for Deeproot and defended them have some responsibility as their posts contributed to others trust.

I’m not a fan of anyone losing money. Though it needs to stop. Blindly supporting these companies should never happen again. Never. As a community we should all run the next Donnie V or Deepturd out of business when the warnings start to come.

Never give preorder money to any startup. Ever. I hope all of us have learned from this.

I for one do think certain people should show up here and apologize to others. I know I won’t be buying any of your mods until this happens.

Sorry I feel this was, but I do.

#2652 66 days ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

I could be wrong, but since the deeproot 575 money was used on the pinball division, the pinball division is now considered an asset of the 575 fund and can be leveraged or seized, or frozen from doing business until funds are recovered?

They are named as a relief defendant... the SEC are seeking financial restitution from them. That judgement would become a liability against the business/LLC. There would have to be separate collection action to try to force pinball to pay if the judgement is passed against them.

When you win a lawsuit against your contractor building your deck - you don't shutdown their business or freeze it just because you won a financial judgement against them. You win a judgement that if they don't pay, you take action to collect. And in the case of deeproot, the scale is as such that if the case prevails there really is nothing but bankruptcy ahead. The SEC case would force pinball into bankruptcy - but not have place to intervene in the business until that point.

That's why you have all these separate businesses in the first place - to insulate one from another.

#2653 66 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

IMO Ben’s kinda doing sarcastic/cynical schtick - which may not play through text (or at all based on people being hurt by losing money & being wrong). Ultimately Ben is one of us & just has the best interests of fellow hobbyists/customers/companies in mind. He’s just sick of seeing bad people screw over fellow pinheads. Is he being caustic & blunt about it? Sure….but it’s a “tough love” stance.
That’s my read. He’s not a cruel person. He’d never try to steal anyone’s retirement.

And…..call it out….is personally tied to this in his past. Just a bit!

#2654 66 days ago
Quoted from hank527:

I want to know where some of the people who defended Robert and Jpoop over and over are.
It was sickening the support these scumbags were given by this community.
The writing was certainly on the wall. I lost to Jpop, Kevin, and Andrew. All this time those who cheered for Deeproot and defended them have some responsibility as their posts contributed to others trust.
I’m not a fan of anyone losing money. Though it needs to stop. Blindly supporting these companies should never happen again. Never. As a community we should all run the next Donnie V or Deepturd out of business when the warnings start to come.
Never give preorder money to any startup. Ever. I hope all of us have learned from this.
I for one do think certain people should show up here and apologize to others. I know I won’t be buying any of your mods until this happens.
Sorry I feel this was, but I do.

I 100% agree with you - call these type of companies out is good.

But don’t attack each other to the death. No good comes of that.

#2655 66 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

They are named as a relief defendant... the SEC are seeking financial restitution from them. That judgement would become a liability against the business/LLC. There would have to be separate collection action to try to force pinball to pay if the judgement is passed against them.
When you win a lawsuit against your contractor building your deck - you don't shutdown their business or freeze it just because you won a financial judgement against them. You win a judgement that if they don't pay, you take action to collect. And in the case of deeproot, the scale is as such that if the case prevails there really is nothing but bankruptcy ahead. The SEC case would force pinball into bankruptcy - but not have place to intervene in the business until that point.
That's why you have all these separate businesses in the first place - to insulate one from another.

Ok you win on a technicality again.
End result as you admit is a defunct , dead pinball company called DR pinball??

#2656 66 days ago
Quoted from tp:

I'd rather be out $619.then to here a single word any of them have to say. Thankfully pinside dosnt charge for that. I jumped in last minute after stumbling on the thread.
$619 to learn that Rm and alot of others here are @$&%*#&$#! Money well spent imo.

Nothing related to DR has never been money well spent.

#2657 66 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

They are named as a relief defendant... the SEC are seeking financial restitution from them. That judgement would become a liability against the business/LLC. There would have to be separate collection action to try to force pinball to pay if the judgement is passed against them.
When you win a lawsuit against your contractor building your deck - you don't shutdown their business or freeze it just because you won a financial judgement against them. You win a judgement that if they don't pay, you take action to collect. And in the case of deeproot, the scale is as such that if the case prevails there really is nothing but bankruptcy ahead. The SEC case would force pinball into bankruptcy - but not have place to intervene in the business until that point.
That's why you have all these separate businesses in the first place - to insulate one from another.

The only difference is the defendant in this case is the same person who owns all the companies. Either way, there is no turning back. He's fked

#2658 66 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Ok you win on a technicality again.
End result as you admit is a defunct , dead pinball company called DR pinball??

Sure pinball is dead - but details matter... something maybe this audience should focus on a bit more

So when people scream 'WHY ISN'T XYZ happening... ' well it is important to understand what is actually in play... not just lumping everything together and then going in circles why the world isn't adhering to those bad assumptions.

It's gonna be awhile before deeproot pinball is broken up. Anything they do now would likely goto Robert... where it would easily be in the cross-hairs of the SEC case. So they would have no motivation to break up pinball now.. just stop spending money on it, let it rot, let any debts accumulate, because they are all gonna be wiped out or fought over in bankruptcy. So you gotta wait for the SEC action to play out... then the line will start forming to get something from pinball's assets.

A big portion of the case is that the investment funds didn't actually get any ownership or vetted compensation for the fund manager (Robert) giving the money to deeproot Tech. The common link is Robert of course... but that's why the suit is really about Robert and the funds - not deeproot pinball being a pathetic excuse for a business.

-19
#2659 66 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

I also enjoy seeing people who bought into Deeproot's bullshit LOSING THEIR MONEY.

Hey Ben, what company you doing a gig for right now, contract, whatever? Full employee, part time, only contract?
Just remember, people remember. And I kind of now the people over there at CGC to.
I know it's pinside, but this isn't the wild west, everybody's looking. See what I did there.

25
#2660 66 days ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Hey Ben, what company you doing a gig for right now, contract, whatever? Full employee, part time, only contract?
Just remember, people remember. And I kind of now the people over there at CGC to.
I know it's pinside, but this isn't the wild west, everybody's looking. See what I did there.

I’ll remember that Ben was always on the side of the consumer & against the villains of pinball. I’d gladly buy his games in the future.

#2661 66 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Ben was always on the side of the consumer

Quoted from benheck:

I also enjoy seeing people who bought into Deeproot's bullshit LOSING THEIR MONEY.

17
#2662 66 days ago
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#2663 66 days ago

Yikes.

I found out about this unfolding debacle via Kaneda's Facebook page last night. Figured I'd come to the Pre-order thread here to see if anyone was successful in chargebacks, and how to possibly go about getting one...successfully...if possible, only to find this thread quickly turn from the Raza Pre-order Thread to the "I told you so/You deserve your money taken/cackling maniacally etc. Thread".

This definitely validates my reasons for staying off this site for the last half year. If people feel validated ego wise, via other people losing money and hope, than that just makes me sadder on top of not getting a game that have genuinely looked forward to for the last year or so.

In a pretty dark time that we live in globally, sometimes hope is channeled in even the most perplexing to others, arenas. I certainly felt this was a percentage gamble, but at the time of pre-order, my thoughts of this becoming the end reality were very minimal.

I definitely don't blame anyone on here for my own false sense of optimism, and obviously I blame the person in charge of this sad mess, but being dormant on here due to feeling this site often brings more ego than information, these last few pages have only crushed my enthusiasm to engage on here all the more so.

This whole debacle, DR, and the attitudes within this thread, just stink.....

15
#2664 66 days ago

My opinion is that you are not seeing the big picture here. Ask yourself: why are there guys like RM ? Because they know that money will come from people that want new stuff. No matter what the cost or the red flags. Right until the end the people that warned you pre-orderers were being laughed at.

By giving money to these companies for nothing (and I also mean to Stern without seeing Mandalorian LE, or by buying second hand Pirates for a gazillion dolars) you ruin the hobby. Manufacturers, distributors, transporters, everybody in the business sees that you are not only willing to give money but you do not know how quickly to do it no matter what the cost (toppers anybody ?). They will keep asking more and more.

And you will not miss the money, because if you cannot afford to lose this kind of gambling money, then you are really stupid. So don't come complaining here when somebody says you deserved to lose the money. I said it three years ago: giving money to anything connected to JPOP should not be rewarded.

#2665 66 days ago

Like a moth to the flame, so were the RAZA speculators.

This phrase speaks of your natural inclination to go towards what could cause you harm. Just as a flame burning bright light could kill a moth, some of the things you wish to do or places that you desire to go are inherently harmful to you, though they seem familiar and inviting.

#2666 66 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

This definitely validates my reasons for staying off this site for the last half year

See ya in 6 months.....

#2667 66 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

You could have used the refund to buy a pinball machine? (Or at least a topper /s)

If I wanted a refund, I would requested a refund. I can buy my own pinball machines.

Time to sign off again. You guys have a nice day.

#2668 66 days ago

Cheeks Ben’s comment is still pro-consumer. We’ve reached a cultish point where those who were defending DR/RM/Jpop we’re actively propping up villains who were harming people. Ben’s “rooting for their loss” is in reality rooting for the villains to finally be vanquished, so consumers in the future FINALLY reject these types of maniacs & their schemes.

#2669 66 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Cheeks Ben’s comment is still pro-consumer. We’ve reached a cultish point where those who were defending DR/RM/Jpop we’re actively propping up villains who were harming people. Ben’s “rooting for their loss” is in reality rooting for the villains to finally be vanquished, so consumers in the future FINALLY reject these types of maniacs & their schemes.

Just remember there is a way to “say it” and be pro-consumer. There is the “how” and the “what” you say.

#2670 66 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Cheeks Ben’s comment is still pro-consumer. We’ve reached a cultish point where those who were defending DR/RM/Jpop we’re actively propping up villains who were harming people. Ben’s “rooting for their loss” is in reality rooting for the villains to finally be vanquished, so consumers in the future FINALLY reject these types of maniacs & their schemes.

I'm not looking to argue, but it certainly does not read that way. If he said, "I hate John/RM, and the things they're doing are so toxic, that for the benefit of the community, I want them to fail at all costs. Too bad RAZA buyers - you're collateral damage." That would be what you're saying. Saying "I also enjoy seeing people who bought into Deeproot's bullshit LOSING THEIR MONEY" is rooting for the misfortune of those consumers (along with John/RM).

Whatever, he's entitled to feel however he wants. I don't actually know what he feels, I just know how it reads.

Anyway, I'm moving on to other things. No matter what, everything surrounding this topic, company, and the people involved is depressing. Maybe I need one of those bidets you're going on about.

#2671 66 days ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Maybe I need one of those bidets you're going on about.

Hey, after all this - you deserve a sparkly fresh butthole! Treat yourself! No more swamp-ass while playing pinball!

#2672 66 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Hey, after all this - you deserve a sparkly fresh butthole! Treat yourself! No more swamp-ass while playing pinball!

The dry-wet-dry method works great as well. Thank you seven kids, and diaper wipes everywhere for helping me discover this life changer.

#2673 66 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

One of the main cheerleaders here seems awfully quiet this weekend since the news broke...

He's busy calling his Amex to see if he can get his money back

#2674 66 days ago

or trying to find a polar bear suit that fits.

11
#2675 66 days ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Hey Ben, what company you doing a gig for right now, contract, whatever? Full employee, part time, only contract?
Just remember, people remember. And I kind of now the people over there at CGC to.
I know it's pinside, but this isn't the wild west, everybody's looking. See what I did there.

What are you going to do? Cancel Ben?

55
#2676 66 days ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Hey Ben, what company you doing a gig for right now, contract, whatever? Full employee, part time, only contract?
Just remember, people remember. And I kind of now the people over there at CGC to.
I know it's pinside, but this isn't the wild west, everybody's looking. See what I did there.

Take a picture of his back for me.

Christ on a cracker. Stop me when YOU think the bullshit was getting a little too thick:

Jpop is our lead designer (this is where I stop, personally)
The Five Days of DeepRoot
Pinball is Easy
RM is: mining in Africa, engineering IT systems, wunderkind financial expert, lawyer extraordinaire, entrepreneur, pinball designer, pinball OS designer, “Captain of the ship”.
Zombie Yeti and others threatened with lawsuits.
Zidware vendors aren’t paid.
NDAs!!
Quad Manufacturing.
We’re going to release 6 games all at once.
We’re going to release more games in one year than the rest of the industry combined.
Allegations of furloughs and salaried employees not being paid.
Dennis Norman leaves (no engineering/no progress)
We won’t launch a game until we can ship in two weeks. And no pre-order ever.
Hammer Tested!
The PinBar (sharp angles and edges and all)
David Thiel leaves.
PinPod reveal!
Whoops, we invited 6 pinball media stars to our soft launch and, knowing more than us, they convinced us to delay.
Pre-orders. PRE-ORDERS!!!
30 day order window. Fake FOMO effort.
We’ll make some extras at higher prices.
Games shipping in February. February comes and goes.
PinPod exposed as an existing product rebranded.
UL certification more complicated than we thought.
Announcing non-announcement.
Not making extras after all.
Refunds offered, but must do it fast. No waitlist for new sucke…er, interested parties.
4 more months of delays. No reasons, no pictures, no nothing.
More furloughs.
“Unexpected (and undisclosed) lawsuit” further delaying communications.
Robert scrubs internet of personal Linked In and Facebook pages as well as multiple corporate web presence(s).
Major SEC filings against Robery Mueller, DeepRoot Funds, and a number of DeepRoot affiliates, including DeepRoot pinball.

#2677 66 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You post stuff like...

You admit to not being clued in, and you had so much bravado and preaching 'gotta believe' no matter what and attacking people who didn't have their head up their ass... and now you're upset people find satisfaction in your epic run into the wall? You reap what you sow - if you don't remember.. here are some highlights.

Flynnibus, as usual, a forensic analysis for the ages.

I find this one fun... this didn't age well

And for the closer...

Yes.. yes you are.

B7887EC9-1EB1-49F3-9AA2-6B6897146A6B.gif
#2678 66 days ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Take a picture of his back for me.
Christ on a cracker. Stop me when YOU think the bullshit was getting a little too thick:
Jpop is our lead designer (this is where I stop, personally)
The Five Days of DeepRoot
Pinball is Easy
RM is: mining in Africa, engineering IT systems, wunderkind financial expert, lawyer extraordinaire, entrepreneur, pinball designer, pinball OS designer, “Captain of the ship”.
Zombie Yeti and others threatened with lawsuits.
Zidware vendors aren’t paid.
NDAs!!
Quad Manufacturing.
We’re going to release 6 games all at once.
We’re going to release more games in one year than the rest of the industry combined.
Allegations of furloughs and salaried employees not being paid.
Dennis Norman leaves (no engineering/no progress)
We won’t launch a game until we can ship in two weeks. And no pre-order ever.
The PinBar (sharp angles and edges and all)
David Thiel leaves.
PinPod reveal!
Whoops, we invited 6 pinball media stars to our soft launch and, knowing more than us, they convinced us to delay.
Pre-orders. PRE-ORDERS!!!
30 day order window. Fake FOMO effort.
We’ll make some extras at higher prices.
Games shipping in February. February comes and goes.
PinPod exposed as an existing product rebranded.
UL certification more complicated than we thought.
Announcing non-announcement.
Not making extras after all.
Refunds offered, but must do it fast. No waitlist for new sucke…er, interested parties.
4 more months of delays. No reasons, no pictures, no nothing.
More furloughs.
Unexpected lawsuit.

Such a great recap. Love it.

You need to add SEC filing as some still think Raza will get made

-1
#2679 66 days ago
Quoted from hank527:

Such a great recap. Love it.
You need to add SEC filing as some still think Raza will get made

thank you, and suggestion honored. Good addition.

#2680 66 days ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Take a picture of his back for me.
Christ on a cracker. Stop me when YOU think the bullshit was getting a little too thick:
Jpop is our lead designer (this is where I stop, personally)
The Five Days of DeepRoot
Pinball is Easy
RM is: mining in Africa, engineering IT systems, wunderkind financial expert, lawyer extraordinaire, entrepreneur, pinball designer, pinball OS designer, “Captain of the ship”.
Zombie Yeti and others threatened with lawsuits.
Zidware vendors aren’t paid.
NDAs!!
Quad Manufacturing.
We’re going to release 6 games all at once.
We’re going to release more games in one year than the rest of the industry combined.
Allegations of furloughs and salaried employees not being paid.
Dennis Norman leaves (no engineering/no progress)
We won’t launch a game until we can ship in two weeks. And no pre-order ever.
The PinBar (sharp angles and edges and all)
David Thiel leaves.
PinPod reveal!
Whoops, we invited 6 pinball media stars to our soft launch and, knowing more than us, they convinced us to delay.
Pre-orders. PRE-ORDERS!!!
30 day order window. Fake FOMO effort.
We’ll make some extras at higher prices.
Games shipping in February. February comes and goes.
PinPod exposed as an existing product rebranded.
UL certification more complicated than we thought.
Announcing non-announcement.
Not making extras after all.
Refunds offered, but must do it fast. No waitlist for new sucke…er, interested parties.
4 more months of delays. No reasons, no pictures, no nothing.
More furloughs.
“Unexpected (and undisclosed) lawsuit” further delaying communications.
Robert scrubs internet of personal Linked In and Facebook pages as well as multiple corporate web presence(s).
Major SEC filings against Robery Mueller, DeepRoot Funds, and a number of DeepRoot affiliates, including DeepRoot pinball.

My post was response to bagging on guys losing money. Big deal. Your Keypost has already been stated, so don't get that.
Thanks for reminding everybody that hasn't stayed current.
I chimed in long ago that this was a shit company and take your refund while you can get it.
I still think it's shitty to gloat in someone's lose.

#2681 66 days ago
Quoted from iEatHands:

What are you going to do? Cancel Ben?

Not if its a good game. Looking forward to it and wish him the best of luck..
AMH, beyond blah. But, he made a machine and I haven't. I'll give Benny that.

16
#2682 66 days ago

I personally don't want to celebrate anyone getting ripped off, but It's funny how the tone changes when the truth comes out.

Many were inflammatory when warned and are now unhappy with it coming back to bite them.

Ben's being a little harsh, but I'd say he's earned it. The guy has been waving flags almost daily for years. Seriously. I've read all of his redundant posts!

#2683 66 days ago

What an amazing thread, the bad guys have turned out to be scum once again and all the “good guys” are narcissistic assclowns.
Wowie.
Maybe this is why people get so pissed off about “what’s wrong with the hobby”

Imagine bragging, doing victory laps, jerking off your own ego and screaming you’re the good guy.
923F6F93-CCC1-440D-96AE-17F6DB5309B3.gif

#2684 66 days ago

See ya bro

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

What an amazing thread, the bad guys have turned out to be scum once again and all the “good guys” are narcissistic assclowns.
Wowie.
Maybe this is why people get so pissed off about “what’s wrong with the hobby”
Imagine bragging, doing victory laps, jerking off your own ego and screaming you’re the good guy.
[quoted image]

#2685 66 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

What an amazing thread, the bad guys have turned out to be scum once again and all the “good guys” are narcissistic assclowns.
Wowie.
Maybe this is why people get so pissed off about “what’s wrong with the hobby”
Imagine bragging, doing victory laps, jerking off your own ego and screaming you’re the good guy.
[quoted image]

Sadly, given the tone on this forum often being so glib, I wasn't sure how to read this post.

I appreciate the sentiment. I didn't want to be quite as pointed, to draw ire or shit back my way, but when I stumbled onto this board years back, I felt intimidated due to ignorance in the hobby. A few years later, it's not quite intimidation, but the antagonism that I want nothing to do with.

I worked an entire month of overtime at my labor based job, (So much for rich guys, huh?) just to "afford" the preorder money I put down...and might not get back. Oddly at this point, it's a toss up between the hard earned cash, and the great enthusiasm pulled out from under me, as to which feels more distressing.

I didn't have much to look forward to this year, but for the last year or so, I got genuinely excited about the idea of deeproot. It's the cold reality that's a real kick in the nuts.

Furthermore, to see this thread which was formerly not the other thread, spiral immediately towards condescension, mean spirited chest thumping, just makes the salt of this reality all the more sad and sobering.

I enjoy pinball most, away from this board, and at this point I don't even ghost this site for tech help. Why on earth would I, when the tone of these last few pages is more the norm than a rare occasion of trolling by a select few?

#2686 66 days ago

and now ... for something completely different ...

pikachu-cute-dance.gif
19
#2687 65 days ago

Let me be the one to change the tone from “We told you so” Vs. “How dare you wish us ill!”, to one of positivity and optimism.. Because there’s a possibility, albeit a slim one, that all the folks who refused to give up hope, despite the obvious warning signs, will be compensated via a choice of either the Prime Rib, or the Chilean Sea Bass, while being invited to attend Roberts 4th wedding. Probably around 2038 (approximately the year after he’s released, depending on his defense team’s strategy and leniency of the presiding judge). So, there’s still a chance!

#2688 65 days ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

Let me be the one to change the tone from “We told you so” Vs. “How dare you wish us ill!”, to one of positivity and hope.. Because there’s a possibility, albeit a slim one, that all the folks who refused to give up hope, despite the obvious warning signs, will be compensated via a choice of either the Prime Rib, or the Chilean Sea Bass while being invited to attend Roberts 4th wedding. Probably around 2038 (approximately the year after he’s released, depending on his defense team’s strategy and leniency of the presiding judge). So, there’s still a chance!

dumb-and-dumber-lloyd.gif
#2689 65 days ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

Let me be the one to change the tone from “We told you so” Vs. “How dare you wish us ill!”, to one of positivity and hope.. Because there’s a possibility, albeit a slim one, that all the folks who refused to give up hope, despite the obvious warning signs, will be compensated via a choice of either the Prime Rib, or the Chilean Sea Bass, while being invited to attend Roberts 4th wedding. Probably around 2038 (approximately the year after he’s released, depending on his defense team’s strategy and leniency of the presiding judge). So, there’s still a chance!

I think it’s more a choice between a set of steak knives or “you’re fired”.

10
#2690 65 days ago

I think there's just some animosity because to ignore all the warning signs, ignore the 99% chance you would never get anything, ignore all the horrible things these people did in the past, and still smugly support them and enable more harm was pretty uncool. Honestly I look at is as a shameful and embarrassing act to have supported DR in any way. Not so much as in I think you're a bad person, but certainly eyebrow raising.

10
#2691 65 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Didn’t buy 2 for myself not sure what you would do with spare games? Was there a benefit to paying in full? Likely just wanted to fuel the speculation pond lol. None the less my deposit(s) are still confirmed by Amex as (don’t worry about it) from my last call. I know you guys are concerned for us, we appreciate you.

You might want to give Amex a call today...

14
#2692 65 days ago

I sense a “why do you guys want RM in jail?! How is that gonna help us get out games!” Post a brewin’.

I remember that was the Predator “owner” sentiment for a while.

#2693 65 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I sense a “why do you guys want RM in jail?! How is that gonna help us get out games!” Post a brewin’.

Maybe the SEC reads Pinside and will chime in on that thread. Because, as it turns out, they're the primary group that wants him in jail.

#2694 65 days ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

Maybe the SEC reads Pinside and will chime in on that thread. Because, as it turns out, they're the primary group that wants him in jail.

Well when are they planning to pinch this asshole?

I gotta think he’s a pretty big flight risk. Lock down the hydrofoils!!

21
#2695 65 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I sense a “why do you guys want RM in jail?! How is that gonna help us get out games!” Post a brewin’.
I remember that was the Predator “owner” sentiment for a while.

No way. It's one thing to rip off a bunch of pinball nerds for a few grand a piece. It's another to rob the life savings from a few hundred seniors. Unforgivable.

#2696 65 days ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

No way. It's one thing to rip off a bunch of pinball nerds for a few grand a piece. It's another to rob the life savings from a few hundred seniors. Unforgivable.

do we know for certain that the $58M came from a few hundred senior citizens? I feel like the investor's list is still privileged information, and that maybe one person just said "Seniors were fleeced!!", both in an effort to sensationalize, and out of assumption due to Bernie's crimes. If we don't know, maybe we should stop saying that as if it's fact.

**Don't get me wrong, somebody was ripped off. But I just think we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

edit: i've since been informed that the complaint in fact ID's the investor's as mostly retirees.

11
#2697 65 days ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

do we know for certain that the $58M came from a few hundred senior citizens? I feel like the investor's list is still privileged information, and that maybe one person just said "Seniors were fleeced!!", both in an effort to sensationalize, and out of assumption due to Bernie's crimes. If we don't know, maybe we should stop saying that as if it's fact.
**Don't get me wrong, somebody was ripped off. But I just think we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

The SEC complaint cites around 300 investors, so an average of about $190k per investor, and that they were primarily retirees.

#2698 65 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

The SEC complaint cites around 300 investors, so an average of about $190k per investor, and that they were primarily retirees.
Madoff was primarily targeting charity and university endowments

oh, the complaint states they were mostly retirees? i didn't realize that. i stand corrected. carry on, then.

#2699 65 days ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

do we know for certain that the $58M came from a few hundred senior citizens? I feel like the investor's list is still privileged information, and that maybe one person just said "Seniors were fleeced!!", both in an effort to sensationalize, and out of assumption due to Bernie's crimes. If we don't know, maybe we should stop saying that as if it's fact.
**Don't get me wrong, somebody was ripped off. But I just think we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

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#2700 65 days ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Take a picture of his back for me.
Christ on a cracker. Stop me when YOU think the bullshit was getting a little too thick:
Jpop is our lead designer (this is where I stop, personally)
The Five Days of DeepRoot
Pinball is Easy
RM is: mining in Africa, engineering IT systems, wunderkind financial expert, lawyer extraordinaire, entrepreneur, pinball designer, pinball OS designer, “Captain of the ship”.
Zombie Yeti and others threatened with lawsuits.
Zidware vendors aren’t paid.
NDAs!!
Quad Manufacturing.
We’re going to release 6 games all at once.
We’re going to release more games in one year than the rest of the industry combined.
Allegations of furloughs and salaried employees not being paid.
Dennis Norman leaves (no engineering/no progress)
We won’t launch a game until we can ship in two weeks. And no pre-order ever.
The PinBar (sharp angles and edges and all)
David Thiel leaves.
PinPod reveal!
Whoops, we invited 6 pinball media stars to our soft launch and, knowing more than us, they convinced us to delay.
Pre-orders. PRE-ORDERS!!!
30 day order window. Fake FOMO effort.
We’ll make some extras at higher prices.
Games shipping in February. February comes and goes.
PinPod exposed as an existing product rebranded.
UL certification more complicated than we thought.
Announcing non-announcement.
Not making extras after all.
Refunds offered, but must do it fast. No waitlist for new sucke…er, interested parties.
4 more months of delays. No reasons, no pictures, no nothing.
More furloughs.
“Unexpected (and undisclosed) lawsuit” further delaying communications.
Robert scrubs internet of personal Linked In and Facebook pages as well as multiple corporate web presence(s).
Major SEC filings against Robery Mueller, DeepRoot Funds, and a number of DeepRoot affiliates, including DeepRoot pinball.

You forgot:

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