(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

11 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 3,298 posts
  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 days ago by jeffspinballpalace
  • Topic is favorited by 89 Pinsiders

You

Topic poll

“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

936C6FE8-1714-4BCB-AFE7-6739393895C8.jpeg
pasted_image (resized).png
proxy-image.gif
Screenshot_20210916-202744_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20210918-073355_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg
you-suck-at-the-internet-20050946 (resized).png
zdeeproot (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
20210913_134239 (resized).jpg
56BB222B-9578-4793-8975-95727AD0EB2D.gif
BD7625E7-40E3-403A-84E4-B263F7215220.gif
84709FE1-FEA0-4A6D-9752-F716DA38680A (resized).jpeg
AAF98977-33FC-4FF4-AC7A-332A4153F493.gif
s6hdwntp7a701 (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
8AF1E999-E259-4D4B-BC47-08F72E95903D (resized).jpeg

Topic index (key posts)

5 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

There are 3,298 posts in this topic. You are on page 53 of 66.
#2601 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I prefer “Man Baby”.

Robert be like: "It's like taking candy from a man-baby."

#2602 3 months ago
Quoted from davjoszie:

I prefer to think of it as they "deserved" to lose their money.

I hope you are being sarcastic.

#2603 3 months ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

I could be wrong, but even after all the warnings, red flags, and pleading, the only way this finally goes away is if hard lessons are learned. And apparently the only way that was going to happen at this point was for people to lose their deposits.
It sucks, and it sounds harsh, but it's reality.

I’ve said it before. I’m okay with losing money at times. And I’m okay with the I told you so’s.

But don’t defend what Ben said. That is simply WRONG.
Completely over the top.

What kind of a person says “I also enjoy seeing people who bought into Deeproot's bullshit LOSING THEIR MONEY.”

He doesn’t even know these people that took a chance.

#2604 3 months ago
Quoted from davjoszie:

I prefer to think of it as they "deserved" to lose their money.

You’re kidding right???

#2605 3 months ago

Whether or not any of the DR/RAZA buyers should of known better or not I never want to see anything bad happen to good people, again even if they should of known better.

Just my .02 cents

20
#2606 3 months ago

It's clear that some people had more information about this company than others. I myself had to keep my gob shut while working at Heighway, even though I knew people would lose their money.

Kaneda blew the whistle loud and clear, but very few people listened to him and money kept coming in.

Not everyone has their finger on the pinball pulse, but when parting with your hard-earned cash, you should listen to those that do.

The warning signs for DeepRoot were lit up brighter than the Vegas strip, but some people just don't.....get it. Limited intelligence? A busy life away from pinball? Risk takers who like to gamble? Who knows.

But as we all know, it's extremely satisfying to say "I told you so".

#2607 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

Do what you want. But I’m pretty sure none of the guys who ordered need you to “root” for us. We’re grown men.
Jesus, this isn’t a life or death situation. It’s a small down payment for a pinball machine. It’s just a hobby. Chillax. Lol.

Quoted from kklank:

If this comes out and is good as it looks, he‘’ll be able to tell all the naysayers to go pound sand.
Or it fails and I lose all my money! Lol. Oh well. Life goes on.

Quoted from kklank:

I read this statement again and I still don’t understand why you would put out a statement like this that is so terrible.
We’ve all said stuff that is argumentative and been harsh to one another. In the end, I think everyone here on Pinside are terrific people that have passion for a hobby but this is a whole new level.

Maybe he didn't think you'd take it so personally?

10
#2608 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

You’re kidding right???

Nope I'm as serious as a four hour erection. Sending preorder money to DR was equal to flushing it down the toilet. I am hopeful at this point people will begin to accept and realize that.

47
#2609 3 months ago

Why are people “taking a chance” or “rolling the dice!” On whether or not a pinball machine gets made and they get anything besides a bad story for their money?

This shit has got to stop, and that attitude has got to be buried forever.

Buy pinball machines that exist, from companies that won’t steal your money. It’s so simple! And you have so many options in 2021, it’s not like 1999 when it was Striker Extreme or bust.

Stop lusting after fantasy when you can settle for reality. It’s a choice we all make many times a day about everything in life. It’s not as exciting, but it makes a lot more sense, and you’ll sleep better at night.

#2610 3 months ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

But as we all know, it's extremely satisfying to say "I told you so".

No. It's actually not.

#2611 3 months ago
Quoted from davjoszie:

Nope I'm as serious as a four hour erection. Sending preorder money to DR was equal to flushing it down the toilet. I am hopeful at this point people will begin to accept and realize that.

Lol. Okay that was funny. The 4 hour correction.

10
#2612 3 months ago
Quoted from Only_Pinball:

No. It's actually not.

Yep, it would have been much more satisfying to have DR get zero preorders. That's what at least I wanted. I never wanted anyone to be scammed or lose money, that's why we were telling people it was a scam. Not to say I told you so

-19
#2613 3 months ago

Time to close this thread down - no more Pre-order.

Time to send a note to Pinsider moderators.

#2614 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Time to close this thread down - no more Pre-order.
Time to send a note to Pinsider moderators.

Well, the pre-orders still exist.

-1
#2615 3 months ago
Quoted from roffels:

Maybe he didn't think you'd take it so personally?

Maybe we should let Ben speak.

I’m not a mind reader. Are you?

#2616 3 months ago

Nope they don’t.
They all got put on hold with SEC stepping in - frozen.

Dead.

#2617 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Time to close this thread down - no more Pre-order.
Time to send a note to Pinsider moderators.

Let's speak no further about it and just pretend it never happened. Ridiculous.

#2618 3 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Let's speak no further about it and just pretend it never happened.

Why would we stop talking about it - we have the other thread?

13
#2619 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

You know, I thought you were a terrific guy when I met you a long time ago at Terry’s party at Pinball Life but that kind of statement is simply not necessary. And completely over the top.
Honestly, I don’t follow this stuff as much as you but I thought the game looked fun because of seeing Steve Bowden’s enthusiasm for the game. So I took a chance.
Now you say I deserve to lose my money. Why?

You want empathy after the way you went after people? lol

29
#2620 3 months ago

Been proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN - no manufacturing ready = YOU WILL LOSE MONEY.

A sea of red flags and you still threw money into it. That's on you, and yes, I'm gonna laugh.

-2
#2621 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Been proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN - no manufacturing ready = YOU WILL LOSE MONEY.
A sea of red flags and you still threw money into it. That's on you, and yes, I'm gonna laugh.

Your choice - but remember in life Karma's a bitch. Just sayin…

#2622 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

Maybe we should let Ben speak.
I’m not a mind reader. Are you?

Nyah, I just thought the "chillax", "lol", and "we're grown men" juxtaposition with your "how can you be so mean" was kind of funny.

#2623 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Nope they don’t.
They all got put on hold with SEC stepping in - frozen.
Dead.

The SEC didn't step into Deeproot pinball - nothing is stopping DR Pinball continuing operations. The only thing 'frozen' is their fraudulent source of operating funds and the fact their sugar daddy got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

#2624 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:You want empathy after the way you went after people? lol

I hear what you’re saying Flynn. I can dish it out and I can take it, within reason.
This, imho, was unnecessary to attack a lot of people he doesn’t know in that manner.

-12
#2625 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

Where the fuck are you at Ben?

No need to worry about him. His comments and opinions are worthless no matter what they are.
He's hanging out in that big circle jerk with all the others who claimed to have warned people.

I'd rather be out $619.then to here a single word any of them have to say. Thankfully pinside dosnt charge for that. I jumped in last minute after stumbling on the thread.
$619 to learn that Rm and alot of others here are @$&%*#&$#! Money well spent imo.
Robert Mueller ripped us off. Lesson learned. I know my money's gone and i could care less at this point.

Although I feel no pain, I have empathy for those that lost alot more.

Moving on as should all that were almost in da club. Move on and count your blessings, you were smart enough not to join the circle jerk club, or its sister club "the told you so club"
Nothing more to EVER add to this thread.
Bye.

#2626 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Your choice - but remember in life Karma's a bitch. Just sayin…

Quoted from benheck:

Been proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN - no manufacturing ready = YOU WILL LOSE MONEY.
A sea of red flags and you still threw money into it. That's on you, and yes, I'm gonna laugh.

Okay Ben. That’s your position.

#2627 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

The SEC didn't step into Deeproot pinball - nothing is stopping DR Pinball continuing operations. The only thing 'frozen' is their fraudulent source of operating funds and the fact their sugar daddy got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Hard to run an operation without fund and leadership there? DR is dead, gone. No sugar coating it!

#2628 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Your choice - but remember in life Karma's a bitch. Just sayin…

Karma for laughing at gullible people with money to bet on DeepRoot? That’s good karma brother.

#2629 3 months ago

Yeah this is a dead duck.
I respect all your opinions.
Best wishes.
I’m out.

50
#2630 3 months ago

You post stuff like...

Quoted from kklank:

I had no idea that these giant lead times for certain parts were happening.
Is this strictly because of Covid?

Quoted from kklank:

I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m just saying that there’s nothing to read into because he doesn’t offer specifics.

You admit to not being clued in, and you had so much bravado and preaching 'gotta believe' no matter what and attacking people who didn't have their head up their ass... and now you're upset people find satisfaction in your epic run into the wall? You reap what you sow - if you don't remember.. here are some highlights.

Quoted from kklank:

Well then if you haven’t ordered a Raza, what the fuck are you doing in this thread???
I don’t give a shit what you have to say pal. Bounce!!

Quoted from kklank:

Who’s “we”? You got a mouse in your pocket?
Seriously, what is your background on owning a pinball company

Quoted from kklank:

I will take anybody’s slot if they want out. Shoot me a pm. I’m all in baby.
Seriously, I’ll take your slot, I’ll confirm with RM if it’s okay to do so.
This game and it’s rules look REALLY good.
Why? Because I like taking chances and I don’t care what other people think.
You show them RM! Stay strong and forge on.
I don’t blame him for saying “if you want out , fine..no problem, here’s your refund..hit the the bricks!”
Well at least that’s what I picture in my mind. Lol!!!
If this comes out and is good as it looks, he‘’ll be able to tell all the naysayers to go pound sand.
Or it fails and I lose all my money! Lol. Oh well. Life goes on.

Quoted from kklank:

Hey everybody, it’s........negative guy.
Just gotta love the negative guy. They’re so fun to hang out with. Great for parties.
Just wind them up and let them ramble on. Lol.

Quoted from kklank:

Thanks for keeping people “accountable”. We don’t know what we’d do without you.
Keep talking.
If it makes you feel better, we’ll listen.

Quoted from kklank:

Yeah it’s rough stuff but it is what it is. I guess we’ll see exactly how committed and how much money RM actually has.
Jpop has absolutely nothing to do with the financing of this project at this point. None. Zip. Yeah I get it he’s still a dick.
Closing off social

I think we all agree you’re acting like a fuckin’ jagoff. Stop harassing people.
This is ridiculous.
Did you even place an order or are you just here to follow people around.
What is your purpose?
Nobody gives a shit. This clearly gets you jazzed up to bother people. STOP being THAT guy.

Quoted from kklank:

Get the fuck out of here.
What are you? The court of public opinion?
You are hilarious.
All the good people??
Do you even read your shit before you post?
Please list the evidence that RM committed theft, fraud and wire fraud.
I’m waiting.........
You talk like a child.

Quoted from kklank:

I simply won’t answer a fucking question you give me.
You’re not worth it.
You called me out in another thread. I don’t even communicate on that thread EVER. You have zero class in that respect.
Keep attacking. The more you speak, the less credibility you have on this thread and on Pinside.
I placed a pre-order. That’s why I’m here. Did you???
If not, why are you here? To educate me and everyone else about DeepRoot and how to avoid future scams for the good of the hobby? Please……………stop.

I find this one fun... this didn't age well

Quoted from kklank:

Do you even read your shit before you post?
Please list the evidence that RM committed theft, fraud and wire fraud.
I’m waiting.........
You talk like a child.

And for the closer...

Quoted from kklank:

It’s never over.
I’m going down with the ship baby!

Yes.. yes you are.

#2631 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Hard to run an operation without fund and leadership there? DR is dead, gone. No sugar coating it!

Dead - but due to money and RM... not the SEC directly with Pinball. The pinball company isn't cited as committing any of the crimes. This 100% is on RM and his sham investment schemes.

13
#2632 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

Yeah this is a dead duck.
I respect all your opinions.
Best wishes.
I’m out.

Be happy you "only" lost...what? 1k or less? The ones that were burned by Jflop for 5 - 10k (or more) and DIDN'T take the early on refund offer really gambled and lost.

I'll still never understand this. After Jflop essentially stole everyone's money they had a chance to get it back.
It was the only good thing about this fiasco.

But instead of thinking "hey I'll get it back and put it in the red hot market and MAKE some money" they said "nah it's cool. Keep the cash and I'll hopefully get a valuable collectable"... or something along those lines.

I never got this and kinda lost interest in this thread when I saw this attitude.

Maybe after getting bent over by Pop a deuce they thought lightning couldn't strike twice? I dunno.

.

#2633 3 months ago
Quoted from tp:

He's hanging out in that big circle jerk with all the others who claimed to have warned people.

I don't get this comment. There were a thousand warnings. I guess you either weren't reading them or were turning a blind eye.

#2634 3 months ago
Quoted from brucipher:

I don't get this comment. There were a thousand warnings. I guess you either weren't reading them or were turning a blind eye.

This very thread, which was the attempt to "keep clean" of the sewer, the warnings were stated at the very start. Let alone the "other" thread.

Screen Shot 2021-08-22 at 2.05.38 PM (resized).png
14
#2635 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Not even one DUNCE will admit it Benny. Pitiful really. I would have expected it in this blame everybody else culture YOU live in.

Dammit Ice I got another page left and already out of thumbs down.

Yes, you've totally been the Hilton of deeproot, another champion of scammers and dealer of advice most awful. At least you finally got your clue, although you should have known earlier..

#2636 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

I also enjoy seeing people who bought into Deeproot's bullshit LOSING THEIR MONEY.

I don't enjoy it, but you know.. if folks stopped being clueless and repeatedly giving their money to scammers peddling the same scam, maybe the scammers will find another hobby to scam from?

STOP FEEDING YOUR CASH TO THE TROLLS

#2637 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Dead - but due to money and RM... not the SEC directly with Pinball. The pinball company isn't cited as committing any of the crimes. This 100% is on RM and his sham investment schemes.

Technicality at this point. By SEC shutting down pinball money source - I think the 2 are intertwined!

Same outcome. DR is dead.

And we don’t know the details yet on the pinball side of the business - I am sure this sub-business operation will be scrutinized by the government.

#2638 3 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Many of us "bought into it" because it was the only option we had to hopefully receive a game following the Zidware debacle

You were never going to receive a game. Many very smart people have been telling you for YEARS that jpop will NEVER release a game and you flat out ignored everyone and fed MORE money to the trolls. You helped keep the bullshit train running long enough for others to clamber aboard. And now here we are.

#2639 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Dead - but due to money and RM... not the SEC directly with Pinball. The pinball company isn't cited as committing any of the crimes. This 100% is on RM and his sham investment schemes.

I could be wrong, but since the deeproot 575 money was used on the pinball division, the pinball division is now considered an asset of the 575 fund and can be leveraged or seized, or frozen from doing business until funds are recovered?

-1
#2640 3 months ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

I could be wrong, but since the deeproot 575 money was used on the pinball division, the pinball division is now considered an asset of the 575 fund and can be leveraged or seized, or frozen from doing business until funds are recovered?

Not an expert on this but would imagine you are correct.

#2641 3 months ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

I could be wrong, but since the deeproot 575 money was used on the pinball division, the pinball division is now considered an asset of the 575 fund and can be leveraged or seized, or frozen from doing business until funds are recovered?

I'm assuming the condo in Hawaii as well??

#2642 3 months ago
Quoted from tp:

No need to worry about him. His comments and opinions are worthless no matter what they are.
He's hanging out in that big circle jerk with all the others who claimed to have warned people.

The projection here is chilling. You’d think the leader being charged with massive financial fraud would finally break the spell of the cult - yet its power still lingers.

#2643 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The projection here is chilling. You’d think the leader being charged with massive financial fraud would finally break the spell of the cult - yet its power still lingers.

The Power of the Dark Side is strong

dark side (resized).jpg
10
#2644 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Sure it does. Makes me feel FINE. Maybe I should have just trashed everybody like many of you miserable people. Not worth it.
And I’m not their Daddy. Lol
The $58 million that investors put in. I’m sure that’s on me too. You actually have to be what’s called an “accredited investor” when you invest in these Reg D filings
People make they own choices. Ask Yelo, Klank etc. Not lemmings or sheep

You’re such a disservice to the community.

Thanks for all your advice.

Hopefully no one else listens to you.

Quoted from iceman44:

I seem to have contracted diarrhea of the mouth syndrome from Benny.
Simple solution. It’s called the ignore feature. I love it myself
Hey I drained the other thread for you. And no I’m not gonna shut up so here’s to you.

Does your asshole ever get jealous of what comes out of your mouth?

#2645 3 months ago
Quoted from tp:

No need to worry about him. His comments and opinions are worthless no matter what they are.
He's hanging out in that big circle jerk with all the others who claimed to have warned people.

Quoted from brucipher:

I don't get this comment. There were a thousand warnings. I guess you either weren't reading them or were turning a blind eye.

Denial is strong with this one. Keep saying no one warned him while many had posted daily in TWO separate threads about red flags of DR for months and years, and still didn't take RM refund offer. Now he cried no one told him so. Stop blaming and hatred toward your fellow pinheads for not warning you or saying "told ya so" and point your fingers toward who actually stole your money.

Here is what I don't get: In this thread I've seen way way more harsh words used toward people who tried to save your money and headaches than the ones (RM and JPOP) who truly stole your money! Even today, 2 days after the scam news broke and the reality set in. Absolutely ridiculous!

#2646 3 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Couldn’t you have just taken a lump sum years ago?

Sure, but the point of it all.... lost way back in this cess pool, is that we were hoping for a pinball machine. We weren't all scrambling for refunds...

#2647 3 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Sure, but the point of it all.... lost way back in this cess pool, is that we were hoping for a pinball machine. We weren't all scrambling for refunds...

You could have used the refund to buy a pinball machine? (Or at least a topper /s)

17
#2648 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

I also enjoy seeing people who bought into Deeproot's bullshit LOSING THEIR MONEY.

Wow, and from someone I really respected in the industry. Disappointing!

Hating on John / RM and relishing them going down in flames? Obviously.

Enjoying some of the more *vocal* RAZA cheerleaders losing out? I guess I can see that, maybe.

But rando dudes who either bought into deeproot RAZA, or took a chance after the Zidware screwing, and have pretty much silently rode this nightmare out? That's entertaining to you? That's a pretty asshole perspective.

If you said you have absolutely no sympathy - totally fair. You shouldn't. But savoring them getting screwed is kind of a dick move. But you do you I guess.

#2649 3 months ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Wow, and from someone I really respected in the industry. Disappointing!
Hating on John / RM and relishing them going down in flames? Obviously.
Enjoying some of the more *vocal* RAZA cheerleaders losing out? I guess I can see that, maybe.
But rando dudes who either bought into deeproot RAZA, or took a chance after the Zidware screwing, and have pretty much silently rode this nightmare out? That's entertaining to you? That's a pretty asshole perspective.
If you said you have absolutely no sympathy - totally fair. You shouldn't. But savoring them getting screwed is kind of a dick move. But you do you I guess.

Yeah, Ben has alluded to some extra hurt he is harboring here, but it is okay to have a bit of grace when you are proven right about something. Actively taking joy from those who have lost money to this debacle is not only a bad look professionally (if you care about that) but should force some self reflection.

#2650 3 months ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Yeah, Ben has alluded to some extra hurt he is harboring here, but it is okay to have a bit of grace when you are proven right about something. Actively taking joy from those who have lost money to this debacle is not only a bad look professionally (if you care about that) but should force some self reflection.

IMO Ben’s kinda doing sarcastic/cynical schtick - which may not play through text (or at all based on people being hurt by losing money & being wrong). Ultimately Ben is one of us & just has the best interests of fellow hobbyists/customers/companies in mind. He’s just sick of seeing bad people screw over fellow pinheads. Is he being caustic & blunt about it? Sure….but it’s a “tough love” stance.

That’s my read. He’s not a cruel person. He’d never try to steal anyone’s retirement.

There are 3,298 posts in this topic. You are on page 53 of 66.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside