(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

10 months ago


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“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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#2501 58 days ago
Quoted from UnholySpectacle:I just hope somebody picks up Steve Bowden.

This is whole reason I went in on trying to get a RAZA. The gameplay in the video looks terrific and Steve Bowden just seems like a terrific guy.
This is very sad.
My guess is RM’s accounts are frozen right now for possible embezzlement.
I hate seeing any company not succeed because there is generally a lot of terrific employees with families that get burned.
For me, I’ll just chalk one up in the loss column but for the employees, that’s a horrible and very frustrating situation.
I also hope Steve Bowden gets picked up somewhere else, it seems like he would be a huge asset.

#2502 58 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Pretty sure you posted that you quit not furloughed and were fully paid. At least thats what you posted.

Yelo, Why would he post the truth? Lol. Is that any of your business? He doesn’t owe that to any naysayers. He just posted that to get a rise out of everyone.

Sound familiar?

17
#2503 58 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Get the fuck out of here. Please list the evidence that RM committed theft, fraud and wire fraud. I’m waiting.........You talk like a child.

Gaga goo goo, blee dee bee glee goo gah

Coo coo ka Choo.

Wait no more.

#2504 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I am surprised to see this come down when it did. Figured it might take longer to play out. Although all it took was a few investment advisers that didn’t like the updates they were getting after placing their clients money with the 575 fund.
It’s not just Mueller, this is going to have far reaching consequences for all of those people. The people that dropped $58 mill into the fund had no idea about pinball and their advisors are gonna pay the price too.
$58 million. Like I’ve said many times before, pinball was just the sideline story to the much BIGGER picture
It looks like Bobby is in BIG trouble.
Whatever assets there are will be sold off and $$ collected to repay the investors in whatever way that means.
While it appears DR and Bobby are finished let’s see who and if someone steps into the void to pick up these games
How about those PPP funds? Don’t see this one ending well.

So you want to go 50/50 on the movie rights?

13
#2505 58 days ago

Obvious criminal was obvious from Day 1. Lots of word salad and bluster, lots of money wasted to appear to be a pinball company. It was all so transparent. Your pal Rarehero has an excellent BS sniffer. Listen to me next time. Apologies will be accepted publicly or privately.

Enjoy prison RM, you vile abusive cheating greedy piece of trash.

-7
#2506 58 days ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

So you want to go 50/50 on the movie rights?

Lol. I hear there are at least 10 games there. Visually confirmed

10
#2507 58 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Do you even read your shit before you post?
Please list the evidence that RM committed theft, fraud and wire fraud.
I’m waiting.........

Ouch, forgot about this one.

#2508 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I am surprised to see this come down when it did. Figured it might take longer to play out. Although all it took was a few investment advisers that didn’t like the updates they were getting after placing their clients money with the 575 fund.
It’s not just Mueller, this is going to have far reaching consequences for all of those people. The people that dropped $58 mill into the fund had no idea about pinball and their advisors are gonna pay the price too.
$58 million. Like I’ve said many times before, pinball was just the sideline story to the much BIGGER picture
It looks like Bobby is in BIG trouble.
Whatever assets there are will be sold off and $$ collected to repay the investors in whatever way that means.
While it appears DR and Bobby are finished let’s see who and if someone steps into the void to pick up these games
How about those PPP funds? Don’t see this one ending well.

In regards to the PPP funds. Basically there’s really nothing that can be done but demand payment. If payment is not made it’s really no big deal because the company is defunct and with all PPP loans there’s no personal guarantees attached. I’d be surprised if the first round of PPP funds haven’t already been forgiven by the SBA. Now with round 2 of PPP funding I doubt it’s been forgiven yet. The SBA will reject forgiveness, Deeproot won’t make payment, the bank will try collecting off the SBA guarantee. In this case I can guarantee a T wasn’t crossed, or an I dotted. The bank will absorb the loss without the PPP guarantee

#2509 58 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Ouch, forgot about this one.

Pretty petty don’t you think?

I never understood the obsession with some people getting off on others losing out on something as trivial as a pinball machine.

“It’s just pinball”

You want to hate Robert or Jpop, knock yourselves out. I’m pretty sure that’s unanimous.

But to continue to shove it up pre order guys asses I think says more about you guys I think.

But if it makes you feel better and enhances your lives in some way then keep it up.

Klank, Yelo and the others like myself will just take it in stride.

#2510 58 days ago
Quoted from Yesh23:

In regards to the PPP funds. Basically there’s really nothing that can be done but demand payment. If payment is not made it’s really no big deal because the company is defunct and with all PPP loans there’s no personal guarantees attached. I’d be surprised if the first round of PPP funds haven’t already been forgiven by the SBA. Now with round 2 of PPP funding I doubt it’s been forgiven yet. The SBA will reject forgiveness, Deeproot won’t make payment, the bank will try collecting off the SBA guarantee. In this case I can guarantee a T wasn’t crossed, or an I dotted. The bank will absorb the loss without the PPP guarantee

The two 2020 loans were in fact already forgiven.

#2511 58 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

Enjoy fighting over the two prototypes auctioned off by the SEC.

Did they tear down the two games shown at Houston Arcade Expo (pre-Pinbar) and rebuild them into ones shown at the private event?

#2512 58 days ago
Quoted from Yesh23:

In regards to the PPP funds. Basically there’s really nothing that can be done but demand payment. If payment is not made it’s really no big deal because the company is defunct and with all PPP loans there’s no personal guarantees attached. I’d be surprised if the first round of PPP funds haven’t already been forgiven by the SBA. Now with round 2 of PPP funding I doubt it’s been forgiven yet. The SBA will reject forgiveness, Deeproot won’t make payment, the bank will try collecting off the SBA guarantee. In this case I can guarantee a T wasn’t crossed, or an I dotted. The bank will absorb the loss without the PPP guarantee

Yeah probably right but I’m wondering how they might be able to tie in the element of “fraud” if he never used that money he got for Deeproot Studios for those non existent employees

Personal liability would be one of his concerns on top of everything else

31
#2513 58 days ago

Does it make you feel better that you championed this to the end, convincing others that may not be as well off as you are to stay in the game and not take a refund?

Pot meet kettle....

Quoted from iceman44:

Pretty petty don’t you think?
I never understood the obsession with some people getting off on others losing out on something as trivial as a pinball machine.
“It’s just pinball”
You want to hate Robert or Jpop, knock yourselves out. I’m pretty sure that’s unanimous.
But to continue to shove it up pre order guys asses I think says more about you guys I think.
But if it makes you feel better and enhances your lives in some way then keep it up.
Klank, Yelo and the others like myself will just take it in stride.

-40
#2514 58 days ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Does it make you feel better that you championed this to the end, convincing others that may not be as well off as you are to stay in the game and not take a refund?
Pot meet kettle....

Sure it does. Makes me feel FINE. Maybe I should have just trashed everybody like many of you miserable people. Not worth it.

And I’m not their Daddy. Lol

The $58 million that investors put in. I’m sure that’s on me too. You actually have to be what’s called an “accredited investor” when you invest in these Reg D filings

People make they own choices. Ask Yelo, Klank etc. Not lemmings or sheep

10
#2515 58 days ago

love to be a grown ass man typing lol in every post to show how fine I feel about things.

#2516 58 days ago
Quoted from MonsieurCS:

love to be a grown ass man typing lol in every post to show how fine I feel about things.

Lol

#2517 58 days ago
Quoted from MonsieurCS:

love to be a grown ass man typing lol in every post to show how fine I feel about things.

That's because he is a man child....

#2518 58 days ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

That's because he is a man child....

Yeah, that’s rough, you guys are killing me!

#2519 58 days ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

That's because he is a man child....

F7D01604-CCCF-4080-A5A0-4E2CDF8212C3.gif
#2520 58 days ago

I just canceled my cable. Season 7 of Pinside’s Deeproot is the new Breaking Bad

#2521 58 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Apologies will be accepted publicly or privately.

If they owe you one, they damn sure owe me one too, lol.

"Mueller used deeproot and Policy Services bank accounts to make hundreds, if not thousands, of additional payments in support of the deeproot-affiliated businesses, but kept such poor records that any individual payment cannot yet be attributed specifically to one of the Defendants or Relief Defendants."

Well damn, it seems so obvious now! If you don't keep records nobody can find anything out! E-Z!

#2522 58 days ago

I prefer “Man Baby”.

Do a pic of me feeding my sheep followers.

#2523 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Pretty petty don’t you think?
I never understood the obsession with some people getting off on others losing out on something as trivial as a pinball machine.
“It’s just pinball”
You want to hate Robert or Jpop, knock yourselves out. I’m pretty sure that’s unanimous.
But to continue to shove it up pre order guys asses I think says more about you guys I think.
But if it makes you feel better and enhances your lives in some way then keep it up.
Klank, Yelo and the others like myself will just take it in stride.

Lol, you get more hilarious with every post man. Nobody wanted to see them fail, but it was clear they would, yet you and others said all is good, "Only the 4th inning" and some such crap. And you prove a great point, a fool and his money are soon parted. Yelo parted with 20,000 grand.

And he could have gotten out, but he wanted something rare to flip for profit. Not a good business plan. Whos the one that wanted them to fail, just after they got the games? You and Yelo for sure. I'm sure he'll have bought one to flip, for profit.

18
#2524 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Pretty petty don’t you think?
I never understood the obsession with some people getting off on others losing out on something as trivial as a pinball machine.
“It’s just pinball”
You want to hate Robert or Jpop, knock yourselves out. I’m pretty sure that’s unanimous.
But to continue to shove it up pre order guys asses I think says more about you guys I think.
But if it makes you feel better and enhances your lives in some way then keep it up.
Klank, Yelo and the others like myself will just take it in stride.

Ha, Klank didn't seem to be taking it in stride with that one.

I brought it up again because it was a dickish post and attitude. He was super self-righteous and as it turns out, completely wrong.

So yeah, not very mature of me I suppose, but I hate it when people shout aggressively at others online. Especially, when the person they're shouting at is actually right.

It definitely sucks that people lost money on this deal. A LOT of people as it turns out. And it's super gross what Robert was doing with investor money. Talk about no class.

#2525 58 days ago

Makes sense now why we didn't get anymore drive by pictures of the "factory".

Someone knew it was over already.

#2526 58 days ago

5kcyp7.jpg

41
#2527 58 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Srsly, noone better buy that JPop licenses, they‘re obviously cursed.

Robert never owned the JPOP license or "Zidware" to be more accurate. He just took them and then threatened Pintasia with multiple law suits like he did to everyone else. It was decided that it was not worth the money nor the time to even bother with such a man that has no respect for anyone but himself. I will say this .... if anyone thinks about taking these IP titles to push them forward, it would behoove you to contact the principle of Pintasia, or me, and ask to read the legal agreements first so you can make a better informed decision. These things need to die and be buried so far down they never have a chance again!

#2528 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I prefer “Man Baby”.
Do a pic of me feeding my sheep followers.

0C3CEAF8-3594-471F-BD0B-5879B54FDF3C.gif
#2529 58 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Ha, Klank didn't seem to be taking it in stride with that one.
I brought it up again because it was a dickish post and attitude. He was super self-righteous and as it turns out, completely wrong.
So yeah, not very mature of me I suppose, but I hate it when people shout aggressively at others online. Especially, when the person they're shouting at is actually right.
It definitely sucks that people lost money on this deal. A LOT of people as it turns out. And it's super gross what Robert was doing with investor money. Talk about no class.

Well I think you probably understand the context of Klank’s comments and the frustrations involved Mike?

It did get a bit old the non stop drum beat that just continued to spill over to the “pre order thread”

It’s over now and yes the only people that will ever “let it go” are the ones that got stuck. Or maybe not, I suppose they could file a lawsuit against Robert personally. Maybe reach out to Mitchell for some legal help?

Ok, ice chest is full in the golf cart, time to pop a top and enjoy life and be thankful I’m not Robert!

-10
#2530 58 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Ha, Klank didn't seem to be taking it in stride with that one.
I brought it up again because it was a dickish post and attitude. He was super self-righteous and as it turns out, completely wrong.
So yeah, not very mature of me I suppose, but I hate it when people shout aggressively at others online. Especially, when the person they're shouting at is actually right.
It definitely sucks that people lost money on this deal. A LOT of people as it turns out. And it's super gross what Robert was doing with investor money. Talk about no class.

I can dish it out and I can take it as well. Let me have it. That’s cool. Lol.
You’re more than welcome to say I told you so.

This doesn’t make you a better person by rubbing someone’s face in it after the fact playing the armchair quarterback.
It kind of comes across as a dickish post with attitude and super self righteous. No?
Look I’m kidding. It’s a hobby. Nothing personal.

I lost money in this whole deal. What did you lose?
There are so many people on pinside that hide behind their avatar with no skin in the game and point fingers. I’ll say it again.
No Skin in the Game. But talk a lot of smack.

The only time I post a “dickish post” is when some dude posts some shit, acts like Nostradamus with Zero skin in the game.
Anything is easy if you’re not vested. Literally anything.

This one goes in the the loss column. Not a big deal. Move on to Haggis! Lol.
I’m sure you’re a terrific guy but do you or anybody like having someone look over your shoulder when you buy just about anything? Heck no.
That’s originally what this thread was designed for. Pre-order dudes talkin’ to pre-order dudes.

I gotta ask. Did you place a pre-order? Just curious. Did you have skin in the game? (And I don’t mean this in a malicious way of any kind).
Usually when I ask and someone doesn’t answer, it means no.

If you lost out like I did. I’m sorry you lost money as well.

#2531 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well I think you probably understand the context of Klank’s comments and the frustrations involved Mike?
It did get a bit old the non stop drum beat that just continued to spill over to the “pre order thread”
It’s over now and yes the only people that will ever “let it go” are the ones that got stuck. Or maybe not, I suppose they could file a lawsuit against Robert personally. Maybe reach out to Mitchell for some legal help?
Ok, ice chest is full in the golf cart, time to pop a top and enjoy life and be thankful I’m not Robert!

Ahhhhhh….a chest full of beers in the golf cart. Sounds delish. About to head out on my golf trip to Michigan very soon.
Do you got the blue tooth speaker in the cart as well? I started doing that too. It’s relaxing.
Toss some Johnny Cash on or some Stones. It’s fantastic!

33
#2532 58 days ago

I like how suckers who went in say we are the bad guys for trying to warn you, warn the hobby, that this was a scam.

Can you imagine how many more suckers would have been burned by this if we hadn't spoken up?

It's bad for the hobby when an obvious con man enters the fray.

We will continue to protect this silly hobby, it's our right.

#2533 58 days ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

Can you imagine how many more suckers would have been burned by this if we hadn't spoken up?

Fair. Might they have sold more games if there hadn't been a tire fire thread? Quite possibly.

#2534 58 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

Fair. Might they have sold more games if there hadn't been a tire fire thread? Quite possibly.

I'm still doughtful that they had deposits for 122 games.
Pretty sure that was an inflated number.

#2535 58 days ago

Somethin' fishy goin' on 'round here...

GBU.gif

#2536 58 days ago
Quoted from frolic:Fair. Might they have sold more games if there hadn't been a tire fire thread? Quite possibly.

They said they sold out. How is that possible?

-2
#2537 58 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

Ahhhhhh….a chest full of beers in the golf cart. Sounds delish. About to head out on my golf trip to Michigan very soon.
Do you got the blue tooth speaker in the cart as well? I started doing that too. It’s relaxing.
Toss some Johnny Cash on or some Stones. It’s fantastic!

Hole 4 and 3 beers in with the blue tooth going.

Quickly, I fired off an email to his attorney Jason and the fact that I’m right here in his back yard of Bexar County, if anyone wants help seeking restitution against Mueller personally shoot me a PM

I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t consider it. JPOP never had a pot to piss in so and being judgment proof that was a big waste of $$ and time

If he actually has assets to go get I be willing to explore options for you/us

After reading those allegations again it’s pretty freaking stunning how bad it is. Not sure if anything of his carcass will be left to get after the SEC and other lawsuits pick him apart. BUT, let’s explore it possibly

Hot as shit here today. Need cold beverages.

#2538 58 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

They said they sold out. How is that possible?

Because it feeds the BS drama narrative they can’t drop

JJP has some pf threads that need attention

#2539 58 days ago

So it looks like we are not going to get our deposit back? $1800.00 give or take a few dollars

40
#2540 58 days ago

I'm out on my yacht... Y'know, just cruising around with my bikini babes. Anyone thinking about suing RM, let me know. Oh, I think I have a swordfish on the line. Gotta go!

32
#2541 58 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

I lost money in this whole deal. What did you lose?
There are so many people on pinside that hide behind their avatar with no skin in the game and point fingers. I’ll say it again.
No Skin in the Game. But talk a lot of smack.
The only time I post a “dickish post” is when some dude posts some shit, acts like Nostradamus with Zero skin in the game.
Anything is easy if you’re not vested. Literally anything.

This BS about "no skin in the game" needs to be put to rest once and for all.

This nonsensical argument was made numerous times back in the days of the Predator thread, and back then, enough people bought into it that people would be ejected from threads for being critical of "the project" who didn't have a Predator on order (i.e, "no skin in the game").

Newsflash: we all have "skin in the game" by being part of this hobby, regardless of whether we actually paid any money to Deeproot. This is more true now than it has ever been. Otherwise you have nothing but an echo chamber.

20
#2542 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Hole 4 and 3 beers in with the blue tooth going.
Quickly, I fired off an email to his attorney Jason and the fact that I’m right here in his back yard of Bexar County, if anyone wants help seeking restitution against Mueller personally shoot me a PM
I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t consider it. JPOP never had a pot to piss in so and being judgment proof that was a big waste of $$ and time
If he actually has assets to go get I be willing to explore options for you/us
After reading those allegations again it’s pretty freaking stunning how bad it is. Not sure if anything of his carcass will be left to get after the SEC and other lawsuits pick him apart. BUT, let’s explore it possibly
Hot as shit here today. Need cold beverages.

From cheer leader to ambulance chaser.

Awesome

#2543 58 days ago

Did Deeproot have any equipment and or inventory to manufacture RAZA machines?
.
I remember years back that they were going to launch six games, I can't remember the titles.
And I thought or even posted, why not start with just one or two titles ???

#2544 58 days ago
Quoted from bob_e:

Did Deeproot have any equipment and or inventory to manufacture RAZA machines?
.
I remember years back that they were going to launch six games, I can't remember the titles.
And I thought or even posted, why not start with just one or two titles ???

Hahahahha

Supposedly they can manufacture though no one has seen any proof of a manufacturing line.

#2545 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Need cold beverages.

At least that‘s stable!

Still hope I‘ll come around someday. XD

12
#2546 58 days ago

Did they at least get the UL certification????

#2547 58 days ago
Quoted from Yesh23:

Did they at least get the UL certification????

That was my main concern as well. JK.

22
#2548 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Hole 4 and 3 beers in with the blue tooth going.
Quickly, I fired off an email to his attorney Jason and the fact that I’m right here in his back yard of Bexar County, if anyone wants help seeking restitution against Mueller personally shoot me a PM
I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t consider it. JPOP never had a pot to piss in so and being judgment proof that was a big waste of $$ and time
If he actually has assets to go get I be willing to explore options for you/us
After reading those allegations again it’s pretty freaking stunning how bad it is. Not sure if anything of his carcass will be left to get after the SEC and other lawsuits pick him apart. BUT, let’s explore it possibly
Hot as shit here today. Need cold beverages.

And with that, Ice became "The Hilton of Deeproot"

Who says history doesn't repeat itself?

Disclaimer: Hilton is an IRL friend of mine. We used to shop at the same grocery store even. But he is still kind of a douche. (as am I!)

#2549 58 days ago
Quoted from kklank:

I can dish it out and I can take it as well. Let me have it. That’s cool. Lol.
You’re more than welcome to say I told you so.
This doesn’t make you a better person by rubbing someone’s face in it after the fact playing the armchair quarterback.
It kind of comes across as a dickish post with attitude and super self righteous. No?
Look I’m kidding. It’s a hobby. Nothing personal.
I lost money in this whole deal. What did you lose?
There are so many people on pinside that hide behind their avatar with no skin in the game and point fingers. I’ll say it again.
No Skin in the Game. But talk a lot of smack.
The only time I post a “dickish post” is when some dude posts some shit, acts like Nostradamus with Zero skin in the game.
Anything is easy if you’re not vested. Literally anything.
This one goes in the the loss column. Not a big deal. Move on to Haggis! Lol.
I’m sure you’re a terrific guy but do you or anybody like having someone look over your shoulder when you buy just about anything? Heck no.
That’s originally what this thread was designed for. Pre-order dudes talkin’ to pre-order dudes.
I gotta ask. Did you place a pre-order? Just curious. Did you have skin in the game? (And I don’t mean this in a malicious way of any kind).
Usually when I ask and someone doesn’t answer, it means no.
If you lost out like I did. I’m sorry you lost money as well.

Look, it's all good. All I originally posted was "Ouch", and only after someone else dug up your post from a little while back. I didn't go hunting for it. Then Iceman played white knight, which prompted me to elaborate. I think most would agree in hindsight that it was an "ouch" statement!

You call it rubbing people's faces in it, I call it accountability. People should be responsible for what they say, even online. I've certainly written things online that I regret, and when someone else brought it up (even in a positive way), it made me cringe and I vowed to be more careful. My wife has a personal rule of only writing positive, or at least informative, comments online. I'm not there yet, but it's a good goal.

My "skin in the game" is that I was almost a RAZA buyer. My wife and I watched the reveal videos, and talked about whether we should go in on one. Her reaction was that RAZA was too many themes in one, and it didn't really interest her. So her reaction, combined with my realization that what I like about RAZA was the innovation, not the actual game, led me to end up not ordering. If you look back to my first post in this thread, it was asking other pre-order people which version they were going for. I was very nearly taken in by this scam. So yeah, my "skin-in-the-game" is that I was nearly one of you, and it pisses me off to think I was nearly a victim too. And so every delay and crappy excuse and setback from deeproot/RM hits me almost as if I was a pre-order buyer.

BTW, I'm in on a Fathom too! Go figure!

#2550 58 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

And with that, Ice became "The Hilton of Deeproot"
Who says history doesn't repeat itself?
Disclaimer: Hilton is an IRL friend of mine. We used to shop at the same grocery store even. But he is still kind of a douche. (as am I!)

Yea but to be fair Ben, your a nice douche that gets shit done!

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