(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

10 months ago


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  • 3,272 posts
  • 248 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by ronaldvg
  • Topic is favorited by 89 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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25
#2451 58 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Pretty sure you posted that you quit not furloughed and were fully paid. At least thats what you posted.

Actually no. I posted on 2019 that the entire company had been furloughed three separate times in 2019 alone. Then I got a cease and desist from Robert and I deleted my comment. But many many many people had read it.

#2452 58 days ago

@ Scandell - I guess I would no longer worry about NDA and other legal threats from Robert - he is going to be busy for awhile.

Robert's going to be on a little cease and desist himself.

57
#2453 58 days ago

Does anyone have a bridge to sell me? You don't even need a compelling sales pitch, apparently.

I'm an original Zidware customer, burned by Jpop. I decided to gamble on deeproot. Went for it with the Xtra. Figured even if I didn't like it, it was rare and I could sell it for a modest profit as compensation for my pain and suffering. Whoops!

I'm pissed, but whatever. I'd be REALLY pissed if I didn't realize it was a gamble I decided to take (could be read as my ignorance).

So anyway. Idiot alert! Send me your hugely expensive scams, I'm sure I'll bite.

Paging any Princes from Nigeria - I'll pay you cash for that check you can't cash.

#2454 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Lol. They keep repeating the same nonsense over and over again Scandell.
The saga is just beginning! Only in about the 3rd inning

So is this the start of the 4th inning ice?

#2455 58 days ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Does anyone have a bridge to sell me? You don't even need a compelling sales pitch, apparently.
I'm an original Zidware customer, burned by Jpop. I decided to gamble on deeproot. Went for it with the Xtra. Figured even if I didn't like it, it was rare and I could sell it for a modest profit as compensation for my pain and suffering. Whoops!
I'm pissed, but whatever. I'd be REALLY pissed if I didn't realize it was a gamble I decided to take (could be read as my ignorance).
So anyway. Idiot alert! Send me your hugely expensive scams, I'm sure I'll bite.
Paging any Princes from Nigeria - I'll pay you cash for that check you can't cash.

Sorry man…

#2456 58 days ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Does anyone have a bridge to sell me? You don't even need a compelling sales pitch, apparently.
I'm an original Zidware customer, burned by Jpop. I decided to gamble on deeproot. Went for it with the Xtra. Figured even if I didn't like it, it was rare and I could sell it for a modest profit as compensation for my pain and suffering. Whoops!
I'm pissed, but whatever. I'd be REALLY pissed if I didn't realize it was a gamble I decided to take (could be read as my ignorance).
So anyway. Idiot alert! Send me your hugely expensive scams, I'm sure I'll bite.
Paging any Princes from Nigeria - I'll pay you cash for that check you can't cash.

I lost money to jpop, and refused to get into bed with deeproot. There was a literal few people that took deeproots refund, and they were smarter than me.

I learned some lessons that I hope will serve me for the rest of my life.

#2457 58 days ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Does anyone have a bridge to sell me? You don't even need a compelling sales pitch, apparently.
I'm an original Zidware customer, burned by Jpop. I decided to gamble on deeproot. Went for it with the Xtra. Figured even if I didn't like it, it was rare and I could sell it for a modest profit as compensation for my pain and suffering. Whoops!
I'm pissed, but whatever. I'd be REALLY pissed if I didn't realize it was a gamble I decided to take (could be read as my ignorance).
So anyway. Idiot alert! Send me your hugely expensive scams, I'm sure I'll bite.
Paging any Princes from Nigeria - I'll pay you cash for that check you can't cash.

Please everyone upvote his post…this is a great attitude (staying positive). There’s much more major issues in the world today.

10
#2458 58 days ago
Quoted from Yesh23:

Please everyone upvote his post…this is a great attitude (staying positive). There’s much more major issues in the world today.

His wife forced him to type this out

#2459 58 days ago
Quoted from mrgone:

<

No, you, and others here are the ones that continue to support people who commit theft, fraud, wire fraud.etc.
So, by supporting and condoning these actions you yourself are culpable in and for these actions.
All the good people here are sick snd tired of seeing good people get cheated because YOU, and others continue to support snd protect known liars, cheats, and conman.

I

Quoted from kklank:

Get the fuck out of here.
What are you? The court of public opinion?
You are hilarious.
All the good people??
Do you even read your shit before you post?
Please list the evidence that RM committed theft, fraud and wire fraud.
I’m waiting.........
You talk like a child.

The evidence is pretty fucking clear.
Even a child could figure it out.

#2460 58 days ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

His wife forced him to type this out

Nah...didn't tell her yet. LOL!

She approved the "investment" so she'll just call me a dumbass. No argument from me, she's right.

#2461 58 days ago
everything-is-fine-itsfine (resized).png
12
#2462 58 days ago

Where are the people who kept defending RM now?

The problem with the pro Deeproot people is some are respected and ultimately lead to others getting burnt. It is truly sad. I lost to Zidware. I’m hopeful everyone learns from this and as a community we do not let it happen again.

#2463 58 days ago

I just hope somebody picks up Steve Bowden.

#2464 58 days ago
Quoted from hank527:

and as a community we do not let it happen again.

You're described as a sewer if you try to do that.

#2465 58 days ago
Quoted from hank527:

Where are the people who kept defending RM now?

Asleep. It’s pretty early.

#2466 58 days ago

Only “the hoard” is awake at this hour.

#2469 58 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Posting this here for any preorder folks that didn't see it yet. No longer just rumors and hearsay now.
https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2021/08/20/sec-charges-san-antonio-advisor-in-58m-investment-scam/

So you’re saying there’s a chance gif

#2470 58 days ago

Long-term lurker here; don’t comment much. But this one was worth weighing in on. This news is the most interesting I’ve read in a while. Actual news! Yay!… I’m very surprised and not surprised at all. I’m offended and saddened, yet intrigued. Feel bad for those burned. Have questions like: why is my beloved, used-to-be niche hobby again being tainted by high-end madoff schemes?

Like most things, I want pinball to be the way it used to be…

#2471 58 days ago
Quoted from hank527:

Where are the people who kept defending RM now?
The problem with the pro Deeproot people is some are respected and ultimately lead to others getting burnt. It is truly sad. I lost to Zidware. I’m hopeful everyone learns from this and as a community we do not let it happen again.

Your kinda new around here, aren't ya? Settle in, another scam will come along, and new (and some old) suckers will bite. Zidware 3.0 possibly?

#2472 58 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

So you’re saying there’s a chance gif

Look, despite overwhelming evidence, everyone is presumed innocent, even RM

/Sarcasm

77
#2473 58 days ago

I feel for all of the victims of Jpop/DeepRoot etc. That includes employees that no doubt looked past evident problems for their love of pinball.
Hindsight is 20/20 but there was foresight here too which makes it worse.

I was visited by Jpop in 2016 and asked to finish the art for all of the projects I had started with him. (Some never seen to this day) I was trying to be nice but indicating I had no desire. His attempt to persuade (read: manipulate) me was to insult my work on Ghostbusters ('Not your best work'). I told him it was produced in 6 months, and existed, and was real.

Regardless, eventually Robert reached out an I was pretty flippant and probably insulting by saying I NEVER wanted to work with John again and anyone who would want to was crazy. Needless to say, litigation was bandied around and eventually I made it clear I wanted nothing to do with any of the work I had done.

It was clear RM had little clue what he was getting into back then - but it's been how much time now? Seeing the alleged criminality is no big surprise in hindsight.... Narcissistic opportunists tend to take other folks for a ride to their benefit...

I just hope this saga is finally done...? Maybe?

Quoted from Cheeks:

Does anyone have a bridge to sell me? You don't even need a compelling sales pitch, apparently.
I'm an original Zidware customer, burned by Jpop. I decided to gamble on deeproot. Went for it with the Xtra. Figured even if I didn't like it, it was rare and I could sell it for a modest profit as compensation for my pain and suffering. Whoops!
I'm pissed, but whatever. I'd be REALLY pissed if I didn't realize it was a gamble I decided to take (could be read as my ignorance).
So anyway. Idiot alert! Send me your hugely expensive scams, I'm sure I'll bite.
Paging any Princes from Nigeria - I'll pay you cash for that check you can't cash.

#2474 58 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2021/comp25179.pdf
I think it's over, fat lady is singing
Jail time for RM?
Deleting as much of his online presence as possible makes 100% sense now

I am surprised to see this come down when it did. Figured it might take longer to play out. Although all it took was a few investment advisers that didn’t like the updates they were getting after placing their clients money with the 575 fund.

It’s not just Mueller, this is going to have far reaching consequences for all of those people. The people that dropped $58 mill into the fund had no idea about pinball and their advisors are gonna pay the price too.

$58 million. Like I’ve said many times before, pinball was just the sideline story to the much BIGGER picture

It looks like Bobby is in BIG trouble.

Whatever assets there are will be sold off and $$ collected to repay the investors in whatever way that means.

While it appears DR and Bobby are finished let’s see who and if someone steps into the void to pick up these games

How about those PPP funds? Don’t see this one ending well.

10
#2475 58 days ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

I feel for all of the victims of Jpop/DeepRoot etc. That includes employees that no doubt looked past evident problems for their love of pinball.
Hindsight is 20/20 but there was foresight here too which makes it worse.
I was visited by Jpop in 2016 and asked to finish the art for all of the projects I had started with him. (Some never seen to this day) I was trying to be nice but indicating I had no desire. His attempt to persuade (read: manipulate) me was to insult my work on Ghostbusters ('Not your best work'). I told him it was produced in 6 months, and existed, and was real.
Regardless, eventually Robert reached out an I was pretty flippant and probably insulting by saying I NEVER wanted to work with John again and anyone who would want to was crazy. Needless to say, litigation was bandied around and eventually I made it clear I wanted nothing to do with any of the work I had done.
It was clear RM had little clue what he was getting into back then - but it's been how much time now? Seeing the alleged criminality is no big surprise in hindsight.... Narcissistic opportunists tend to take other folks for a ride to their benefit...
I just hope this saga is finally done...? Maybe?

First, You are appreciated by all of us. I love your work and thankful you are doing games. I think there is opportunity to sell some of your unreleased stuff

Second, Robert being an ass and quick to want to bully you into submission is complete BS. The guy should be run out of pinball with Jpop forever.

Third, it’s funny the RM claims to own the Zidware stuff as we filed a lawsuit prior to all of the Deeproot crap and won it. Though it’s still held up. My hope is that this goes back on John and he’s forced to pay it back.

Best of luck.

10
#2476 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I am surprised to see this come down when it did. Figured it might take longer to play out. Although all it took was a few investment advisers that didn’t like the updates they were getting after placing their clients money with the 575 fund.
It’s not just Mueller, this is going to have far reaching consequences for all of those people. The people that dropped $58 mill into the fund had no idea about pinball and their advisors are gonna pay the price too.
$58 million. Like I’ve said many times before, pinball was just the sideline story to the much BIGGER picture
It looks like Bobby is in BIG trouble.
Whatever assets there are will be sold off and $$ collected to repay the investors in whatever way that means.
While it appears DR and Bobby are finished let’s see who and if someone steps into the void to pick up these games
How about those PPP funds? Don’t see this one ending well.

Wait, what? Didn't you say the 575 fund was untouchable? Things were in the works behind the scenes?

-6
#2477 58 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I'm sorry I stirred that up again. I will refrain from posting now (until there is a definate end -hopefully positive- in sight).

Well, that got old quickly…

I still think RM believed his own words, wanted to make himself some pinball and own shitloads of money as a side effect. Since, you know, pinball is easy. - And why wait and not spend that money right now, when you know you‘ll ship more games then anyone else!?

It‘s srsly sad, since there was actually a lot of creative investment there. I hope not all will be lost.

19
#2478 58 days ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

His attempt to persuade (read: manipulate) me was to insult my work on Ghostbusters ('Not your best work').

What a piece of garbage (him, not your work).

And look at the entire body of work you've had the opportunity to finish while with Stern. Thousands and thousands of games in the world with your artwork.

Good job.

#2479 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I am surprised to see this come down when it did. Figured it might take longer to play out. Although all it took was a few investment advisers that didn’t like the updates they were getting after placing their clients money with the 575 fund.
It’s not just Mueller, this is going to have far reaching consequences for all of those people. The people that dropped $58 mill into the fund had no idea about pinball and their advisors are gonna pay the price too.
$58 million. Like I’ve said many times before, pinball was just the sideline story to the much BIGGER picture
It looks like Bobby is in BIG trouble.
Whatever assets there are will be sold off and $$ collected to repay the investors in whatever way that means.
While it appears DR and Bobby are finished let’s see who and if someone steps into the void to pick up these games
How about those PPP funds? Don’t see this one ending well.

Srsly, noone better buy that JPop licenses, they‘re obviously cursed.

26
#2480 58 days ago

Time to change the name of this topic.

"RAZA Mourners Club" maybe?

Enjoy fighting over the two prototypes auctioned off by the SEC.

#2481 58 days ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

I feel for all of the victims of Jpop/DeepRoot etc. That includes employees that no doubt looked past evident problems for their love of pinball.
Hindsight is 20/20 but there was foresight here too which makes it worse.
I was visited by Jpop in 2016 and asked to finish the art for all of the projects I had started with him. (Some never seen to this day) I was trying to be nice but indicating I had no desire. His attempt to persuade (read: manipulate) me was to insult my work on Ghostbusters ('Not your best work'). I told him it was produced in 6 months, and existed, and was real.
Regardless, eventually Robert reached out an I was pretty flippant and probably insulting by saying I NEVER wanted to work with John again and anyone who would want to was crazy. Needless to say, litigation was bandied around and eventually I made it clear I wanted nothing to do with any of the work I had done.
It was clear RM had little clue what he was getting into back then - but it's been how much time now? Seeing the alleged criminality is no big surprise in hindsight.... Narcissistic opportunists tend to take other folks for a ride to their benefit...
I just hope this saga is finally done...? Maybe?

JPop was right about one thing tough; since you seem to get even better every game, GB is not your „best work“.

10
#2482 58 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Well, that got old quickly…
I still think RM believed his own words, wanted to make himself some pinball and own shitloads of money as a side effect. Since, you know, pinball is easy. - And why wait and not spend that money right now, when you know you‘ll ship more games then anyone else!?
It‘s srsly sad, since there was actually a lot of creative investment there. I hope not all will be lost.

He never intended to produce pinball machines. It was always a scam. If anything, the incompetence we saw at every turn - the horrible layout, the stupid malfunctioning pinbar, the pinpod that won’t fit through your door - all that stuff was probably More of a feature than a bug.

Ever seen “The Producers?”

The game, and everything about this project, was so awful it seemed like it was DESIGNED to fail.

Well, maybe it actually was!

13
#2483 58 days ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

insult my work on Ghostbusters ('Not your best work')

FWIW, I have a Ghostbusters, and your work absolutely rocks!

57
#2484 58 days ago

Thanks - that's the way I looked at it. I can't say it enough - but the folks at Stern that I've worked with have the same passion and drive to make something special that I do. George Gomez & Greg Freres in particular have done everything they can to give me the means to produce at the highest level possible. Add incredible teams led by incredible designers and I have to be the luckiest guy in pinball.

(BTW - my secret is that I'm terrified of letting people down - so technically I'm internally miserable and push myself until it's over lol)

Off the record - Can't wait to share the current project some day

Quoted from frolic:

What a piece of garbage (him, not your work).
And look at the entire body of work you've had the opportunity to finish while with Stern. Thousands and thousands of games in the world with your artwork.
Good job.

#2485 58 days ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

Thanks - that's the way I looked at it. I can't say it enough - but the folks at Stern that I've worked with have the same passion and drive to make something special that I do. George Gomez & Greg Freres in particular have done everything they can to give me the means to produce at the highest level possible. Add incredible teams led by incredible designers and I have to be the luckiest guy in pinball.
(BTW - my secret is that I'm terrified of letting people down - so technically I'm internally miserable and push myself until it's over lol)
Off the record - Can't wait to share the current project some day

I have no doubt your Godzilla will be amazing!

#2486 58 days ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

I feel for all of the victims of Jpop/DeepRoot etc. That includes employees that no doubt looked past evident problems for their love of pinball.
Hindsight is 20/20 but there was foresight here too which makes it worse.
I was visited by Jpop in 2016 and asked to finish the art for all of the projects I had started with him. (Some never seen to this day) I was trying to be nice but indicating I had no desire. His attempt to persuade (read: manipulate) me was to insult my work on Ghostbusters ('Not your best work'). I told him it was produced in 6 months, and existed, and was real.
Regardless, eventually Robert reached out an I was pretty flippant and probably insulting by saying I NEVER wanted to work with John again and anyone who would want to was crazy. Needless to say, litigation was bandied around and eventually I made it clear I wanted nothing to do with any of the work I had done.
It was clear RM had little clue what he was getting into back then - but it's been how much time now? Seeing the alleged criminality is no big surprise in hindsight.... Narcissistic opportunists tend to take other folks for a ride to their benefit...
I just hope this saga is finally done...? Maybe?

This undying monster must really be frustrating. What do you mean by “litigation was bandied about”? As in, he tried to threaten you into working with JPOP again?

39
#2487 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

let’s see who and if someone steps into the void to pick up these games

I can't believe you actually just wrote this.

#2488 58 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

He never intended to produce pinball machines. It was always a scam. If anything, the incompetence we saw at every turn - the horrible layout, the stupid malfunctioning pinbar, the pinpod that won’t fit through your door - all that stuff was probably More of a feature than a bug.
Ever seen “The Producers?”
The game, and everything about this project, was so awful it seemed like it was DESIGNED to fail.
Well, maybe it actually was!

Next sidestep game: Hitler in Springtime confirmed!!

#2489 58 days ago
Quoted from Scandell:

I can't believe you actually just wrote this.

Look who you're quoting, there.

#2490 58 days ago

Well... Wow. Glad that stupid contract scared me off.

#2491 58 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2021/comp25179.pdf
I think it's over, fat lady is singing
Jail time for RM?
Deleting as much of his online presence as possible makes 100% sense now

Didn’t see this coming. Shocker.

852F91B7-B26B-4A81-881B-37584396BF91.gif
#2492 58 days ago

But they’re still answering the phone / emails for true customers right now, I could have sworn someone said that?

I like that his last update was ‘we thought this litigation would be resolved much sooner’ … what a liar and bunch of BS

#2493 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

How about those PPP funds? Don’t see this one ending well.

This will not end well for Robert. How are the Federal prisons in TX? I assume no pinball in the day room.

#2494 58 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

Time to change the name of this topic.
"RAZA Mourners Club" maybe?
Enjoy fighting over the two prototypes auctioned off by the SEC.

And change the hater/troll/sewer thread to "dr Warner's club"

#2495 58 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Surely a Forum says no employees so that must be, right?

A link to the SEC filing was posted on Pinside.

Pinside is an internet forum.

Therefore, the SEC filing must not be real. RAZA tracking numbers incoming any day now!

(Sorry, it's fascinating to watch this thread gradually release its death grip on the denial stage.)

11
#2496 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

While it appears DR and Bobby are finished let’s see who and if someone steps into the void to pick up these games

No.gif
29
#2497 58 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

As a lawyer myself that understands contract law and am here local, I could offer up a multitude of legal recourse options for all of us. It’s the LAST thing I worry about right now But It won’t be needed. Refunds were an option and still are an option and ALWAYS will be an option.

Quoted from iceman44:

That’s their problem to work out. Not mine
And I’ll be back the following week. Watching, waiting…..
I have lawyers (bigger and badder) I have $$$. “Venue” is in Bexar county where I live.

Don't forget people. Mr. Bigshot has got all of you covered legally and at no cost to you.

#2498 58 days ago
Quoted from EternitytoM83:

it's fascinating to watch this thread gradually release its death grip on the denial stage.

It's fascinating to me as well as a parallel to the outside world and how people cling to beliefs.

#2499 58 days ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

(BTW - my secret is that I'm terrified of letting people down - so technically I'm internally miserable and push myself until it's over lol)

Don't stress too much. You are already #1.

15
#2500 58 days ago

I always thought Mueller was a loud mouthed jackass. So not a shock to me that he is also (allegedly) a scumbag criminal.

It's not just ripping off people who have a few $$ down on pinball deposits. Not just screwing over those people who took jobs at Deeproot because they are passionate about pinball. He also managed to steal money from old retired people to buy himself a condo.

Fuck RM.

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