(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

11 months ago


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  • 3,298 posts
  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by jeffspinballpalace
  • Topic is favorited by 89 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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#2301 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Huh. So a non-answer, means you don't have any idea how they could be built.
Losing cred? I and others have seen this as a joke since day one and tried to warn people. You on the other hand cheer dr and post supposed insider info that the games will be built, yet won't disclose what you know. Who has no cred again?

Keep rambling. It’s no working. You’re time is up. Time to go back to the DR thread. Feel free to talk negative about myself or pinsiders that pre-ordered on the other thread. That’s your style.
You sir…..have lost all credibility.

Do you deny calling me out in the other thread? Seriously……what is wrong with you.
Have you placed a pre-order???
Yeah…….I didn’t think so.
You have zero value in this thread.

#2302 3 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Again you guys put the blame on Pinsiders. The blame should be on Robert and deeproot missing all their deadlines and failing to provide substantive updates. That's the actual problem; the negative comments are just a symptom.
This thread was pretty quiet, and mostly just actual preorder folks for a long time. It started getting active again after Robert missed the last deadline, and then really picked up following the latest communication.

They might if deeproot paid for their relocation expenses, and if Robert promised the paychecks were just around the corner.

Couldn't age any worse than Robert's many ridiculous public comments.

There are enough unhappy preorder buyers that any official or substantial information gets shared here or with Kaneda. You might think you're getting the inside scoop, but I doubt it. Kinda like how Ice had the inside scoop on the Alien remake, except he didn't. It was all bs that was being fed to him.
Still...anything could happen. I hope you get your games. You've got a real optimistic attitude. Although optimism in the face of mounting evidence can start to seem like delusion.

Excuse me but we now have Alien remake. Quit making shit up now. They had been working on it for years along with the coding updates. Cointaker would confirm
that.

And i also said TBL was coming out of litigation to get made again and that happened first. Same source and Cointaker would confirm that as well.

Kaneda was right all along based on what I told him. It just took a LONG time to play out

As for DR, you can make up your BS, I live in San Antonio and know some of the parties involved and …….

So you monkeys just keep humping that Robert DR football!!

#2303 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

So you monkeys just keep humping that Robert DR football!!

9E9D0F9D-6F79-4971-93B1-B397C7E67863.gif
#2304 3 months ago

Every day all day is hump day. Lol

#2305 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

I was never "at" Zidware (John only pays himself) No contract, no agreement, no license for use of likeness. Nothing. We visited each other's shops a few times and I get "BHZA" sprung on me. His idea. Cool, but some foam core mockups (not of the whole thing, just parts) was all I ever saw. Remember John does art first, scams some people, then thinking about making the game.
As for re-writing history you're the one forgetting it. Early 2010s it was VERBOTEN on here to question anyone. Skit-b, JJP, John, etc. So nobody would have listened had I warned. And even if they did, what was there to whistle blow at the time? John is lazy? Remember nobody knew how far the wheels had flown off the bus until Empty Cabinet Gate at Expo 2014.
Do you like how well Spooky has done? Well I was a big part of that. My work there actually made a difference unlike with John "the master teacher" So glad I helped them instead of wasting any more time with Jpoop.

It's all good, Ben. Most of us know who originated that lie about you. It wasn't Marlboroman and you can't really blame him. But it does show how corrupt some people are and the lengths they will go to.
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19
#2306 3 months ago

Yeah I WISH I had had some real involvement. The game would have gotten made for one thing.

A lot of my frustration is due to the fact my name was associated with the Zidware mess. One of the many reasons I wish RAZA, one way or another, would be put to bed.

#2307 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:Yeah I WISH I had had some real involvement. The game would have gotten made for one thing.
A lot of my frustration is due to the fact my name was associated with the Zidware mess. One of the many reasons I wish RAZA, one way or another, would be put to bed.

I gotta ask you a question Ben. Isn’t their a small part of you that would like to see this game be made?
I mean I completely understand your position on why you hate Jpop but you were involved in this originally and I think it would be somewhat rewarding,albeit in a twisted fashion, to see this get done.
It seems like you’ll always be connected to Raza so why not end on a note that could possibly make you feel good inside because you were one of the original guys involved.
Personally, I just think it’s good for the soul? You know what I mean?

#2308 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Excuse me but we now have Alien remake. Quit making shit up now. They had been working on it for years along with the coding updates. Cointaker would confirm
that.
And i also said TBL was coming out of litigation to get made again and that happened first. Same source and Cointaker would confirm that as well.
Kaneda was right all along based on what I told him. It just took a LONG time to play out
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As for DR, you can make up your BS, I live in San Antonio and know some of the parties involved and …….
So you monkeys just keep humping that Robert DR football!!

Hey Ice, I always enjoy your posts here--I rank you up there with Odin and vid1900. I only used you as an example, nothing personal. But let's get real here--anyone could have made a guess that Alien would have been remade at some point. It was a highly desirable title that ended way before it's time. It doesn't take a Nostradamus to make that guess.

However, last time I checked, didn't you guarantee that Alien would start shipping again by the end of 2019? And Alien didn't start start shipping again until Spring/Summer 2021. So yeah, I call BS on your insider information on that one. Is it possible that you were basing everything off what known liar and scammer Jonathan Demare was telling you?

Either way, my point was that if there was any new and important information pertaining to the pre-order buyers, it would get out. That's all.

#2309 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

I gotta ask you a question Ben. Isn’t their a small part of you that would like to see this game be made?
I mean I completely understand your position on why you hate Jpop but you were involved in this originally and I think it would be somewhat rewarding,albeit in a twisted fashion, to see this get done.
It seems like you’ll always be connected to Raza so why not end on a note that could possibly make you feel good inside because you were one of the original guys involved.
Personally, I just think it’s good for the soul? You know what I mean?

I wish it would get made, if only to finally put it to rest. I don't hate Jpop, I pity him, but it's aggravating to see how much energy is wasted on these ancient, ill-conceived games of his.

If deeproot made RAZA, great! Then it's done. If they fail... then people still are clinging to hope. "Someone might buy the assets" etc. IT NEVER ENDS.

#2310 3 months ago

.

#2311 3 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Hey Ice, I always enjoy your posts here--I rank you up there with Odin and vid1900. I only used you as an example, nothing personal. But let's get real here--anyone could have made a guess that Alien would have been remade at some point. It was a highly desirable title that ended way before it's time. It doesn't take a Nostradamus to make that guess.
However, last time I checked, didn't you guarantee that Alien would start shipping again by the end of 2019? And Alien didn't start start shipping again until Spring/Summer 2021. So yeah, I call BS on your insider information on that one. Is it possible that you were basing everything off what known liar and scammer Jonathan Demare was telling you?
Either way, my point was that if there was any new and important information pertaining to the pre-order buyers, it would get out. That's all.

Here's another one.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/no-more-speculation-planetary-pinball-to-remake-mb-bbb-tom-and-cc/page/21#post-6440274

-7
#2312 3 months ago

Yes someone will buy the rights. It is stupid to think no one would step up & finally cash in the multi millions spent. I like $500k to buy in & screw out vendors owed money line. If you use that logic, only similar to a offer for what Deep Root has done over the years. Maybe a supply issue for some things, but lots of stuff is still being made around the world. Like I keep saying anyone could move forward & actually build Raza pins if they were smart. I build up my contract vendors & paid them over the years. There are cabinet builders around the world like Bader looking for a steady source of income. Even if Deep Root goes tits up, someone will be selling off stuff to make a buck. Unless it is a real pinball manufacturer going to shelf most of the stuff after buying what is left. Then you guys that hate JPOP will finally have the last laugh, & screw anyone with money in for JPOP & his dream games.

#2313 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

I wish it would get made, if only to finally put it to rest. I don't hate Jpop, I pity him, but it's aggravating to see how much energy is wasted on these ancient, ill-conceived games of his.
If deeproot made RAZA, great! Then it's done. If they fail... then people still are clinging to hope. "Someone might buy the assets" etc. IT NEVER ENDS.

I agree. Let’s hope Robert Mueller gets it done and puts it all to rest.
The game itself, separating from all the heartache and drama, still looks like a lot of fun and your input, however long ago, would never be forgotten.

#2314 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

I agree. Let’s hope Robert Mueller gets it done and puts it all to rest.
The game itself, separating from all the heartache and drama, still looks like a lot of fun and your input, however long ago, would never be forgotten.

Hard to say how fun RAZA will actually be to play. According to Cary Hardy it wasn't that fun...but everyone has different tastes when it comes to pinball. And deeproot certainly has had the time to tweak the game for the better since last Fall.

#2315 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

Keep rambling. It’s no working. You’re time is up. Time to go back to the DR thread. Feel free to talk negative about myself or pinsiders that pre-ordered on the other thread. That’s your style.
You sir…..have lost all credibility.
Do you deny calling me out in the other thread? Seriously……what is wrong with you.
Have you placed a pre-order???
Yeah…….I didn’t think so.
You have zero value in this thread.

Yea, I probably did, you clearly deserved it. It's nuts to think people like yourself think I don't want you to get a game. Of course we do, it's just seems completely obvious it won't happen. Zidware 2.0. This thread will soon be re-titled, RAZA post-scammed.

To be clear, I hope you and every buyer get your game. I don't have your money.

#2316 3 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Hey Ice, I always enjoy your posts here--I rank you up there with Odin and vid1900. I only used you as an example, nothing personal. But let's get real here--anyone could have made a guess that Alien would have been remade at some point. It was a highly desirable title that ended way before it's time. It doesn't take a Nostradamus to make that guess.
However, last time I checked, didn't you guarantee that Alien would start shipping again by the end of 2019? And Alien didn't start start shipping again until Spring/Summer 2021. So yeah, I call BS on your insider information on that one. Is it possible that you were basing everything off what known liar and scammer Jonathan Demare was telling you?
Either way, my point was that if there was any new and important information pertaining to the pre-order buyers, it would get out. That's all.

Wasn’t a guess Mike. I had updated code being worked on then. And yes I lost a bet being way too early.

It was happening back then. Don’t take my word for it. Cointaker would confirm it

Sometimes things take a LOT longer to play out.

That’s my point. As poorly as its gone thus far, the DR saga is far from over brother!

And I’ve said many times, my pin buddy has played Raza more than any non DR person. He hosted the “What’s Brewing” event. He’s an excellent player and I respect his opinion.

It’s why I stayed in on the game.

#2317 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Yea, I probably did, you clearly deserved it. It's nuts to think people like yourself think I don't want you to get a game. Of course we do, it's just seems completely obvious it won't happen. Zidware 2.0. This thread will soon be re-titled, RAZA post-scammed.
To be clear, I hope you and every buyer get your game. I don't have your money.

I deserved it huh. You keep telling yourself that while you go back to the DR thread to justify your inability to show some decent etiquette.

#2318 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Wasn’t a guess Mike. I had updated code being worked on then. And yes I lost a bet being way too early.
It was happening back then. Don’t take my word for it. Cointaker would confirm it
Sometimes things take a LOT longer to play out.
That’s my point. As poorly as its gone thus far, the DR saga is far from over brother!
And I’ve said many times, my pin buddy has played Raza more than any non DR person. He hosted the “What’s Brewing” event. He’s an excellent player and I respect his opinion.
It’s why I stayed in on the game.

I agree. This is not over yet.

#2319 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

I deserved it huh. You keep telling yourself that while you go back to the DR thread to justify your inability to show some decent etiquette.

Take it to pm.

#2320 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Excuse me but we now have Alien remake. Quit making shit up now. They had been working on it for years along with the coding updates. Cointaker would confirm
that.
And i also said TBL was coming out of litigation to get made again and that happened first. Same source and Cointaker would confirm that as well.
Kaneda was right all along based on what I told him. It just took a LONG time to play out
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As for DR, you can make up your BS, I live in San Antonio and know some of the parties involved and …….
So you monkeys just keep humping that Robert DR football!!

So any idea what is going on right now that would make them take down multiple accounts from FB & LI , companies as well as personal accounts, and shut off their phone line?

#2321 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

I deserved it huh. You keep telling yourself that while you go back to the DR thread to justify your inability to show some decent etiquette.

Quoted from Roostking:

Yea, I probably did, you clearly deserved it. It's nuts to think people like yourself think I don't want you to get a game. Of course we do, it's just seems completely obvious it won't happen. Zidware 2.0. This thread will soon be re-titled, RAZA post-scammed.
To be clear, I hope you and every buyer get your game. I don't have your money.

You guys have had enough, move on or take it to PMs

#2322 3 months ago

Any word on when these will be available to play on location?

-7
#2323 3 months ago

Does anyone know if I can put in a deposit on any of those three RAZA spots that were refunded?

Would be worth it just for the inside information if nothing else.

#2324 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:I deserved it huh. You keep telling yourself that while you go back to the DR thread to justify your inability to show some decent etiquette.

Can you read? Do you comprehend the words I type. I HOPE you and every buyer get your game.

That etiquette?

#2325 3 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

So any idea what is going on right now that would make them take down multiple accounts from FB & LI , companies as well as personal accounts, and shut off their phone line?

Pretty simple in my view. The negatives far outweighed the positive. Example compare this thread (minus the pop in gloaters) vs the other thread. I can only imagine the messages they were receiving lol. As for contact i would only say don’t believe everything you read by “others”. I have called and emailed several times and always gotten a reply. (As long as you have a vested interest). I see it as a means to filter out the hate/attacks which is Kind of what was attempted with this thread. Not that easy as this thread Also proves. Lol

#2326 3 months ago

I emailed them last week. All I've heard is crickets.

#2327 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And I’ve said many times, my pin buddy has played Raza more than any non DR person. He hosted the “What’s Brewing” event. He’s an excellent player and I respect his opinion.
It’s why I stayed in on the game.

Just out of curiosity, can you give some examples of games he finds to be bad? Particularly right off the bat? I always find that some people are excited about a new prospect or toy and let that cloud their judgment. Theres also too many guys who think every game is awesome. Not saying your buddy is like this, but I'm asking because my eyebrow is raised a bit.

#2328 3 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Just out of curiosity, can you give some examples of games he finds to be bad? Particularly right off the bat? I always find that some people are excited about a new prospect or toy and let that cloud their judgment. Theres also too many guys who think every game is awesome. Not saying your buddy is like this, but I'm asking because my eyebrow is raised a bit.

Can’t believe I’m asking….. why does this matter at All?? Lol

#2329 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Can’t believe I’m asking….. why does this matter at All?? Lol

Because Ice specifically stated that his reason for staying in was that his buddy said it was really good, so it got me wondering. I tend to not trust overly excited peoples opinions on new games so I am just curious. It really doesn't matter though, because, for example you probably don't care that I think the game looks like ass, and I've heard plenty of people whos opinions I do respect say the same. I'm just looking for a feeler on if it was a typical "all games are great" guy or if it was an actual objective opinion. The answer will change nothing other than to satisfy my curiosity.

#2330 3 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

The answer will change nothing other than to satisfy my curiosity.

And there, my friends, is the summation of this entire thread.

#2331 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Pretty simple in my view. The negatives far outweighed the positive. Example compare this thread (minus the pop in gloaters) vs the other thread. I can only imagine the messages they were receiving lol. As for contact i would only say don’t believe everything you read by “others”. I have called and emailed several times and always gotten a reply. (As long as you have a vested interest). I see it as a means to filter out the hate/attacks which is Kind of what was attempted with this thread. Not that easy as this thread Also proves. Lol

I find this to be te most perfectly understandable but also most horrible answer/ reason yet. XD

(Question is if they still reply to Pre-Order Customers but some people tried and get answers allready, so that seems to be fine. Not sure if Stemmy is a customer, since he states to got none.)

#2332 3 months ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

And there, my friends, is the summation of this entire thread.

Exactly, just Trolls doing what they do in every thread.

#2333 3 months ago
Quoted from BertoDRINK1:

Exactly, just Trolls doing what they do in every thread.

it is a legitimate question, I just don't expect it to change anyone's mind. To look any further into it than that is just silly.
The fact that so many of you are taking issue with it makes it sound like you might be concerned with the answer....I hope that is not the case

#2334 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

You keep telling yourself that while you go back to the DR thread to justify your inability to show some decent etiquette.

Glasshouse-philip-johnson (resized).jpg
12
#2335 3 months ago
Quoted from BertoDRINK1:Exactly, just Trolls doing what they do in every thread.

Everyone was a troll who called out jpop and zidware 1.0. Everyone was troll when Predator was being produced, without license. Everyone was a troll for stating DPs plans with a second contract manufacturer was just not going to work. Everyone is a troll in this thread, for pointing out the obvious.

Until they are proven right.

I'll take troll over sucker at worst, naive and uneducated at best.

And I still have yet to see any of you point out a single positive aspects about this that would lead you to believe all is good, despite the mountain if evidence. Care to be the first? If you can, I won't visit this thread again!

#2336 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

And I still have yet to see any of you point out a single positive aspects about this that would lead you to believe all is good

From what I've read, the following have been submitted às reasons to believe RAZA will still be made:

Hope
Secret insider emails
I already spent the money, so why not believe
Just give it time, pinball is easy

I, for one, am convinced.

#2337 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I'll take troll over sucker at worst, naive and uneducated at best.

Thanks your awesome best to you.

-1
#2338 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Thanks your awesome best to you.

RM, is that you?
BEST lol

You have a wide open opportunity to have me remove myself from your thread, and yet, you can't come up with one positive peice of news. 10 years 21,000 posts and NOT ONE positive aspect of this debacle. Come on man, JUST ONE!

#2339 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

RM, is that you?
BEST lol

Yep, you have a wonderful day.

#2340 3 months ago

AND HE WILL BE BACK IN 4-3-2-1

#2341 3 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Because Ice specifically stated that his reason for staying in was that his buddy said it was really good, so it got me wondering. I tend to not trust overly excited peoples opinions on new games so I am just curious. It really doesn't matter though, because, for example you probably don't care that I think the game looks like ass, and I've heard plenty of people whos opinions I do respect say the same. I'm just looking for a feeler on if it was a typical "all games are great" guy or if it was an actual objective opinion. The answer will change nothing other than to satisfy my curiosity.

He's a friend that i trust. He works on my games. He plays my games, he has a few dozen of his own and routes some games. We talk pinball when he comes over, what i like/don't like, what he likes/doesn't like etc.

He's a good guy, laid back, soft spoken and does a lot for local pinball.

I was surprised at how much he liked it after all the time he got on it. It's why i stayed in. Because of MY relationship with him and MY respect for his opinion.

Like Yelo says, the relevance beyond that? Maybe he'll submit to doing a deposition for you guys under oath. LOL

#2342 3 months ago

It would be nice if Deep Root was more open with their customers. Show them what parts are there, & what state of production is going on. He needs to be more transparent about his problems, & what is taking place. You would think that with what he has stated that there are cabinets, playfields, backglass, & all the other stuff needed for production. All he has to do is show some of this stuff needed to get games going, & not actual line work or production processes.

If he still remains silent that is further evidence that nothing is really being produced the last 8 months. If he has not telling the truth on what is actually going on. Get a good PR person to try & get out of this mess. Own up to your mistakes, & look for people to get Raza pins built. I still cannot figure out if UL, ULC, & other safety approval is the problem or not. Same with there should be 70 - 90% of parts needed to build games even with parts constraints. Even myself & a few others in a production team would have pins either fully built out or waiting for missing stuff. 100 Raza build should not be a hard thing to do.

I am still not a buyer, not looking for a Deep Root position. Just would like to see the pins actually get built for people to enjoy.

#2343 3 months ago
Quoted from transprtr4u:

AND HE WILL BE BACK IN 4-3-2-1

Just, 1.

#2344 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Yep, you have a wonderful day.

You too, hopefully today brought you the BEST news you have heard in awhile!

#2345 3 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

It would be nice if Deep Root was more open with their customers. Show them what parts are there, & what state of production is going on. He needs to be more transparent about his problems, & what is taking place. You would think that with what he has stated that there are cabinets, playfields, backglass, & all the other stuff needed for production. All he has to do is show some of this stuff needed to get games going, & not actual line work or production processes.
If he still remains silent that is further evidence that nothing is really being produced the last 8 months. If he has not telling the truth on what is actually going on. Get a good PR person to try & get out of this mess. Own up to your mistakes, & look for people to get Raza pins built. I still cannot figure out if UL, ULC, & other safety approval is the problem or not. Same with there should be 70 - 90% of parts needed to build games even with parts constraints. Even myself & a few others in a production team would have pins either fully built out or waiting for missing stuff. 100 Raza build should not be a hard thing to do.
I am still not a buyer, not looking for a Deep Root position. Just would like to see the pins actually get built for people to enjoy.

I have to ask, have you actually read this thread? The things you mention were brought up like 15,000 posts ago. Maybe 18,000 posts ago?

#2346 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I have to ask, have you actually read this thread? The things you mention were brought up like 15,000 posts ago. Maybe 18,000 posts ago?

Are you sure it was that many posts ago?

#2347 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Are you sure it was that many posts ago?

Nope. 19,000? I'll have to start back at #1 and go from there. Maybe 20,199?

#2348 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Nope. 19,000? I'll have to start back at #1 and go from there. Maybe 20,199?

Was this in 1992?

#2349 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Was this in 1992?

Got me, I'm humbled.

It was a mere 7 years ago, and 24,000 posts ago when RAZA was hyped by Ice Ice baby.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6mg-raza-and-aiw%e2%80%a6

Thanks for calling me out and forcing me to correct my inaccuracies.

Best...

#2350 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Was this in 1992?

Lol. Post #8 PDX monkey was already like WTF. Ice, said no problem, over blown hah. A Combined 45,000 posts later. Not 1 positive aspect. I really thank you, this is going to start a whole new discussion.

Screenshot_20210813-222816_Chrome (resized).jpg
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