(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

11 months ago


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  • 3,298 posts
  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by jeffspinballpalace
  • Topic is favorited by 89 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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There are 3,298 posts in this topic. You are on page 45 of 66.
#2201 3 months ago
Quoted from SmallyBells:

This is my daughter Jill and her dog Tartine. Tartine is a attention hound. Long live Deeproot and may it never close
[quoted image]

Geez , for a split second I thought I saw your daughters .....oh don't worry about it

18
#2202 3 months ago

Nobody is buying RAZA assets from dr’s going-out-of-business sale, setting up manufacturing, taking deposits and then making RAZA. Nobody is that stupid. The design, gameplay and software are only so so. The theme sucks!! We don’t know if everything in the game works nor if everything intended to be added has been added. There is no wow factor found in this game. The pinbar has to be removed prior to manufacturing and this necessitates its removal from code which it is closely entwined.

It is not that good a game and the theme does not have a fan base. There are unresolved legal issues, one of which was big enough to shutdown the company making it. WCBrandes has stated that he owns the rights to making RAZA and that has not been thrown up as a challenge yet. Who would buy a RAZA made under these circumstances, maybe 25 people.

Reality - RAZA’s will not be made by deeproot. deeproot is dead. Nobody will buy up assets and produce RAZA. RAZA’s will not be made. There is no chance for this pin. No hope.

#2203 3 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Nobody is buying RAZA from dr’s going-out-of-business sale, setting up manufacturing, taking deposits and then making RAZA. Nobody is that stupid. The design, gameplay and software are only so so. We don’t even know if everything works nor if everything intended to be added has been added. There is no wow factor found in this game. The Pinbar has to be removed prior to manufacturing and that necessitates its removal from code which it is closely entwined.
Why would anybody even want to buy a RAZA under these circumstances? How many could they sell, maybe 25?
Reality - RAZA’s will not be made by deeproot. deeproot is dead. Nobody will buy up assets and produce RAZA. RAZA’s will not be made. There is no chance and no hope.

I'd buy one and there'll allways be hope. It's free!

#2205 3 months ago

I thought you did that already??

#2206 3 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

It is, but at this point, closing down Facebook & LinkedIn profiles as well as their service number, there should be at least an "we're still alive and just restructuring" update.

After 4 hours, I can't believe I'm the only one to upvote this comment.

#2207 3 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

So if you are following there is likely 1 - 5 new companies getting into the pinball field for 2022.

That's a scary thought. Given history, 3 or 4 of them at minimum will be total scams and never see the light of day.

#2208 3 months ago

How do the buyers feel about DR's website's lack of security, with your names, addresses, login credentials, emails, numbers of games bought with serial numbers, ect being fairly easy to access off DR's craptacular website? Real nice

-5
#2209 3 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

How do the buyers feel about DR's website's lack of security, with your names, addresses, login credentials, emails, numbers of games bought with serial numbers, ect being fairly easy to access off DR's craptacular website? Real nice

Where can we see the list?

#2210 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Where can we see the list?

Please stop.

#2211 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Where can we see the list?

The details of the list are unimportant. Theres no need to look at other peoples information. The fact that it is accessible is all that is important and that is where it ends. If you have a game on preorder and you doubt the authenticity of the claim, feel free to drop Cary Hardy a message and he will verify your info to prove its true. DR is a joke.

#2212 3 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

DR is a joke.

A bad joke maybe. This isn't funny.

#2213 3 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace: The design, gameplay and software are only so so. The theme sucks!!is no chance for this pin.

Hey don’t overlook that artwork though. 40+ full time employees and untold thousands produced a really solid visual experience…

#2214 3 months ago

I think they should close down the website, take down the option for people to see people's info.

They have scrubbed their presence from elsewhere if they want to keep in touch with buyers for whatever reason create a private Facebook users group which has been mentioned before.

10
#2215 3 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Only if Deep Root goes under, or if someone buys out the remains & shelves everything that was done over the years.

There's nothing worth buying. No one needs the toxicity, debt, lies, and BS that come along with this title. There's no value. Jpop isn't a brand that can move product. He's an anchor.

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

So if you are following there is likely 1 - 5 new companies getting into the pinball field for 2022. Not hard to believe with past history & the increased demand going on all over the world.

Make sure you don't give them money until they can prove they have a factory & have games in boxes ready to ship.

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Also you would think that all the big players will announce more production & titles soon moving forward.

They can barely get all their orders built due to parts shortages.

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Dutch Pinball should increase their production even more & plan on another title next year. Homepin is a wild card for next year.

They still owe 100's of EA's their games. They need to make those buyers whole before taking more money for another game.

#2216 3 months ago
Quoted from LORDDREK:

Hey don’t overlook that artwork though. 40+ full time employees and untold thousands produced a really solid visual experience…

Could sell all images of art as NFT's.
Get some money back for pre order gang.

#2217 3 months ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I can bet JPop will be involved in at least one of them. As a cat, he's got 9 lives and only burned 3 so far (Zidware, AP, Deeproot).

Arguably, the Jpop cat is down to 5 lives. Pintasia belongs in the cluster of 4 enterprises which attempted to rescue the project.

#2218 3 months ago
Quoted from ZNET:

Arguably, the Jpop cat is down to 5 lives. Pintasia belongs in the cluster of 4 enterprises which attempted to rescue the project.

And being the first, found out pretty damn quick it was a useless endeavor.

#2219 3 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

The details of the list are unimportant. Theres no need to look at other peoples information. The fact that it is accessible is all that is important and that is where it ends. If you have a game on preorder and you doubt the authenticity of the claim, feel free to drop Cary Hardy a message and he will verify your info to prove its true. DR is a joke.

Clarification - not interested in people's information.

Just want to know how many machines were ordered. Was there 30 machines ordered or 130 machines?
Helps the community understand the breadth of the building or non-building of machines.

#2220 3 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

I think they should close down the website, take down the option for people to see people's info.
They have scrubbed their presence from elsewhere if they want to keep in touch with buyers for whatever reason create a private Facebook users group which has been mentioned before.

If only dr still had a fb page!!

#2221 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

There's nothing worth buying. No one needs the toxicity, debt, lies, and BS that come along with this title. There's no value. Jpop isn't a brand that can move product. He's an anchor.

Make sure you don't give them money until they can prove they have a factory & have games in boxes ready to ship.

They can barely get all their orders built due to parts shortages.

They still owe 100's of EA's their games. They need to make those buyers whole before taking more money for another game.

While this person seems to command respect for his pinball work, he seems pretty out of touch with the realities on the ground, on multiple fronts.

#2222 3 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

They have scrubbed their presence from elsewhere if they want to keep in touch with buyers for whatever reason create a private Facebook users group which has been mentioned before.

At this point, it should be Deeproot to set this up for you guys. They have all of the customers names and emails to build a complete group and make it a hell of a lot easier. If you guys do it and Deeproot doesn't participate, your group will be fragmented and is gonna go dead real quick. And if Deeproot won't participate with their customers, that's a telling message in itself.

Keep in mind that Deeproot is limited to not talking about the legal case itself, but thats all. There is plenty of other things they can reveal especially to customers.

#2223 3 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

The details of the list are unimportant. The fact that it is accessible is all that is important and that is where it ends.

It does matter a little bit. It doesn't seem like the information is just sitting there out in the open for just anyone to stumble upon accidently or even somewhat intentionally. It sounded like it took some effort to extract, and that's probably going to be beyond the reach of most mere mortals without the necessary technical chops.

#2224 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Clarification - not interested in people's information.
Just want to know how many machines were ordered. Was there 30 machines ordered or 130 machines?
Helps the community understand the breadth of the building or non-building of machines.

Had to go to the other thread...........and run through a bunch of crappy cat/dog pictures to find this.
(Maybe I missed it...but if not fyi)

Quoted from PismoArcade:

Cary mentions that there isn't 122 preorders according to the data he has.
Didn't I read somewhere that Robert is keeping 30 Razas for himself?

SO...how many preorders were there if anyone knows. If the number was really small - I then don't buy supply chains issues, etc.

#2225 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

SO...how many preorders were there if anyone knows. If the number was really small - I then don't buy supply chains issues,

The only supply chain issue was RM not supplying money for parts and people it seems. What a shit show.

#2226 3 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

The only supply chain issue was RM not supplying money for parts and people it seems. What a shit show.

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10
#2227 3 months ago
Quoted from Biv:

If you can buy the assets without any liabilities whatsoever, then why not? Most likely the RAZA game is closer to being ready to ship, than everything a new startup has already in their pocket.
"

This may be the funniest post I've ever read. Anywhere.

#2228 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This may be the funniest post I've ever read. Anywhere.

Wow that's unfortunate.

#2229 3 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

… or if someone buys out the remains

Delusional.

#2230 3 months ago
Quoted from Biv:

If you can buy the assets without any liabilities whatsoever, then why not? Most likely the RAZA game is closer to being ready to ship, than everything a new startup has already in their pocket.

#2231 3 months ago

You guys are a laugh. People hate JPOP I get it. But someone will step up when the dust settles to roll the dice on what they either did or did not do all these years. Could be a pinball company just to see if there is anything of use, & or to make sure No One Else can be a quick competitor! Maybe if nothing there for pinball, they could sell off what video assets are there to someone else. Maybe make a movie, or American Greed episode. Deep Root & JPOP sounds like a winning combo for the screen. Or possibly a gaming system or platform, anything is possible.

Please show some respect Ben & others. I use my real name here John Greatwich. Seems like going back to early school as a child with the sandwich or witch comments. I try to show respect to others, & help out the industry. I even tried to help out behind the scenes of the early Zidware scam, but I am not a rich guy. Same with trying to guide Heighway Pinball in the early days. Another guy that would not listen to reason, & take it slow to conserve spending.

What has the community learned over the years with prepaying in full or a deposit on future pins. Next to nothing - it is a gamble! Almost lost money on JJP twice myself. People want to help out new guys they hope will actually produce games & that the customers get them. The odds of that is not great!

The group that bought me out I would think want nothing to do with building Raza machines. The other group remains silent, I wonder why? Could they be Deep Root, another new company that is taking in the shit show & scared off I do not know. Or someone has a big joke going on with me before the latest problems.

Raza could still be built like I have suggested by a contractor, a small team, & proper funding. Good management, production team, & vendors. Time will tell if the assets become available, & if someone is a serious gambler. No one is likely to continue with JPOP in the pinball business, but who knows he might find another home.

#2232 3 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

You guys are a laugh. People hate JPOP I get it. But someone will step up when the dust settles to roll the dice on what they either did or did not do all these years. .

I will bet whatever is left of the very large bottle you are drinking that you are wrong.

#2233 3 months ago

Nobody in the existing industry is going to touch RAZA with a hundred meter pole.

Your best bet is another rich noob (like AP) who doesn't know how Google works. Take the game, kick Jpoop to the curb (like Joe did at AP) build it, sell 50 copies and be done with it.

#2234 3 months ago

Had 2 buds earlier repairing a pin for a friend. I drink beer like most Canadians! The hard stuff is good, but I prefer beer. Funny how you can post & people think you are under the influence of something. Weed is legal in Canada, but I do not smoke. Must be some more insults coming my way.

#2235 3 months ago

Is this how you do 2 Buds?

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16
#2236 3 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Must be some more insults coming my way.

Greatwichjohn... I want to say "Thank You" for your comments and being open minded. Right or wrong it's OK. I appreciate your opinions and thoughts, as I do with others as well.

However, there are so many PinGuys here that seem to know everything and can't wait for this to crash & burn. I get it.

Full disclosure: I'm in on RAZA for over $4,750, day one Zidware buy-in. I like really the theme, and the looks of what I've seen, and that's why I bought in.

I'm an educated man at 63, I own 33 late model pins and many classic arcades, and I love this hobby. I, like many of you don't like to get ripped off and I’ll look at my options as things unfold.

Thanks
Kerry

#2237 3 months ago
Quoted from Kerry_Richard:

Greatwichjohn... I want to say "Thank You" for your comments and being open minded. Right or wrong it's OK. I appreciate your opinions and thoughts, as I do with others as well.
However, there are so many PinGuys here that seem to know everything and can't wait for this to crash & burn. I get it.
Full disclosure: I'm in on RAZA for over $4,750, day one Zidware buy-in. I like really the theme, and the looks of what I've seen, and that's why I bought in.
I'm an educated man at 63, I own 33 late model pins and many classic arcades, and I love this hobby. I, like many of you don't like to get ripped off and I’ll look at my options as things unfold.
Thanks
Kerry

You sound like a good guy. I hope you get made whole.

#2238 3 months ago
Quoted from Scandell:

You sound like a good guy. I hope you get made whole.

Agreed. Him and all the other buyers

-8
#2239 3 months ago

Hang in there guys and be patient...your money has already been spent on RAZA so sit back and see how this plays out. Things are NOT as they appear, especially as seen through the eyes of the uninformed who rely on speculation and false indicators that are twisted to reinforce their own position and desire that deeproot is dead and buried. This isn’t over...not even close.

#2240 3 months ago

-1
#2241 3 months ago

I’m not sure how many pre-order people are on this thread anymore.
As far as I can tell, DR has announced they are in the middle of a lawsuit and they shut down social media.
Those are the facts. Nothing else.
I’m not sure why mostly everybody thinks they are done yet.
They are not out of business yet.
These machines can still be made. Time will tell.

15
#2242 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

These machines can still be made. Time will tell.

By which employees? The ones who are furloughed, or the ones who didn't get paid? Serious question.

-7
#2243 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

By which employees? The ones who are furloughed, or the ones who didn't get paid? Serious question.

Quoted from Roostking:

By which employees? The ones who are furloughed, or the ones who didn't get paid? Serious question.

No interest in answering a single fucking question you ask me.

#2244 3 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Nobody is buying RAZA assets from dr’s going-out-of-business sale, setting up manufacturing, taking deposits and then making RAZA. Nobody is that stupid. The design, gameplay and software are only so so. The theme sucks!! We don’t know if everything in the game works nor if everything intended to be added has been added. There is no wow factor found in this game. The pinbar has to be removed prior to manufacturing and this necessitates its removal from code which it is closely entwined.
It is not that good a game and the theme does not have a fan base. There are unresolved legal issues, one of which was big enough to shutdown the company making it. WCBrandes has stated that he owns the rights to making RAZA and that has not been thrown up as a challenge yet. Who would buy a RAZA made under these circumstances, maybe 25 people.
Reality - RAZA’s will not be made by deeproot. deeproot is dead. Nobody will buy up assets and produce RAZA. RAZA’s will not be made. There is no chance for this pin. No hope.

I think it looks supergood and i would love to own one.

#2245 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

They are not out of business yet.
These machines can still be made. Time will tell.

Full of armchair wrestlers here,i like to stay positive,that’s why I only come here once a month…
Shall we open a new topic for the people who think the outcome will be positive!?

#2246 3 months ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

I think it looks supergood and i would love to own one.

It definitely looks good, in fact looking good is one thing RAZA has going for it.

-2
#2247 3 months ago

I agree a nice looking pinball machine. If the samples & info became available. The first thing that would be done is to play test & tweak the design a little I think for the ramps, mechs, farris wheel. Leave the art alone. Make sure full rule set is ready to go. Anyone going forward would do this ASAP, & not waste a lot of time. If the worst happens & we never see this game made I hope the prototypes go to a museum so they can be seen.

There is still many things we do not know from Deep Root or their employees. How many playfields were made, cabinets, parts, etc. You would think there has to be something, & not nothing with all the millions & staff there all these years.

#2248 3 months ago

There is nothing until dr proves otherwise . RAZA protos have been played in the wild and Robert’s walk through video showed cab and full art . There is no reveal to spoil . If he had a stack of 100 printed playfields or a row of even 5 or 10 cabs waiting for assembly I believe he would have shown it - boastfully . You know the old saying - put up or shut up - and we haven’t heard a peep . He has nothing to put up so he shut up .

10
#2249 3 months ago
Quoted from RobT:

The infamous empty cabinets!
That was truly the beginning of the end for Zidware. The Zidware/RAZA thread blew up after that fiasco.

That’s exactly when I asked for a refund, first rat off a sinking ship.

#2250 3 months ago
Quoted from rai:

That’s exactly when I asked for a refund, first rat off a sinking ship.

I have no skin in the RAZA game but I follow the thread. Did those people that requested refunds, get the refunds?

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