Wish we we’re at a bar next to each other right now.

Still here stinking up the place.

Appologies my statement as written is that we (the pre-order group) are not your kids. You guys all have fun with your hunt. Not sure why everyone is searching for a fight or debate. We collect toys this doesn't need to be so fired up or personal. Have a wonderful life guys.

Please don't let it devolve into this.

Oh man guys I see the direction that things are heading here and it it is very unfortunate! I don’t expect everyone to lock arms and sing Kumbaya but let’s not forget who the bad guys really are (RM JPOP ect) attacking each other serves no purpose, we have been down this road too many times already for this same damn game. For those that ended up being right about all of this no need to gloat, for those that ended up being wrong, lesson learned, but we are all friends here.

Huh? You're a confusing dude. I just asked if you really paid for two games in full, cuz I found that surprising/ballsy, if true.

But apparently you didn't, I guess? I don't know. Your posts are contradictory. Obviously, what you choose to share on Pinside is your business, but I find it very strange that you'd be posting that you paid for games when you didn't. Doesn't compute. I guess I should just take whatever you say with a grain of salt going forward?

I don't know what's happening, but this thread has taken a very weird turn.

Thank you for clarifying. I admit that went over my head. Not everybody is searching for a fight. And I agree this should not be personal.

Agreed!

And one step further, even JPOP and RM and others for all their faults are pinheads as well. They were trying to make something cool for us, and the jury is still out but due to their own personal quirks they seem to have failed hard.

Not taking sides but this seems to be much needed perspective . Everyone has learned something from this saga but in the end quit attacking the innocent over toy purchases ( or attempted toy purchases ) . Bag on JP & RM all you want - well deserved .

Thank god for Python calling him out.

Keep digging dude.

It’s all good man. To be honest I sincerely believe a good many involved in these debates back and forth do mean well and I do respect their position. While it may not be my direction I have no personal reason to call them wrong or debate their position. I personally have not entered a purchase agreement with Anyone in this thread so I see no rational reason to sway them either way. To the few that seemingly simply want to pick at any scab in hopes to get a reaction not sure I can help you. Pinball for me personally (as I suck at it) is a means to meet new and interesting people locally and from around the world. I can honestly say some of the best friends in my world came from the hobby of Pinball. To hate Any of you for not liking my decisions or yours would be foolish. (Unless your into PTC…). Live, love, laugh and enjoy. My collection of toys is open for Anyone that would like to visit always. Peace!

Time for someone from Deeproot to man up and let the deposit holders know some real info.

Robert needs to hop on his soapbox.

Does the place he’s fled to have soapboxes?

I personally respect all opinions here because some have been severely betrayed and are just trying to warn others. Some didn't realize what a shit show this was, that's my fault personally. Others just wanted a cool machine and took a gamble. But at the end of the day cannabilizing each other does nothing to hold those responsible for the shit show. We can agree to disagree at certain levels but still at the end its holding those responsible for the mess they created by screwing over the zidware people again and taking deposits when something wasn't even close to being ready.

No but he might end up in a place where you do not want to drop the soap.?

I've kept quiet in this thread for the most part. I put a deposit in on an arcade edition. I hate getting ripped off just as much as the next guy!
What I hate even worse then getting ripped off is some fn guy(you know who you are) coming in here and telling me I told you so! Rubbing or fn noses in it. Your a fn liar!
You never ever ever told me or even mentioned it until it was to late. If you woulda maybe some, including myself woulda listened. People chiming in after orders were closed helped no one.
Please mr I told you so go toot your horn somewhere the sun don"t shine. Unlike you I know my opinion doesn't mean much to most of the world including you. That said I've lost all respect for anything that you have to say. Keep on riding those coattails maybe someday you"ll get to wear the coat you so desire.
Sorry if I offended, but I have a stake in all this and needed to say something after mr I told you so kicked sand in my face when I was already bleeding from getting ripped off.
I hope those invested in this whole debacle get their money back or a machine someday.(laugh all you want) If neither of those happen, not much I could do about it but hope those that stole our money go to jail.
Doubtful on all 3 points but I have the right to wish for 1 of these to happen more so than those with nothing invested.
I've said my piece, wont be wasting my time(yes time is precious) chiming in here again until 1 of those 3 things happen.
Good day
Fellow pinheads.

I’m not looking for a fight either.
Let me side track to ppp loans.
I’m have many long time clients in my line of work.
Several, run cafes, coffee kiosks, and snack bars at state buildings.
I provide services for those state buildings as well as for the vendors, the people who rent the space for their cafe etc. I also provide my service to their homes.
Many got ppp loans due to covid. In California. Where many state buildings are still running at 10% of staff due to covid. All others working remotely.

The vendors had to repay those loans because the had to pay off staff, they had to close locations. One has had to burn through most of here savings and retirement to stay afloat.
Oh, all of these vendors are legally blind.
Another has lost his home. All his locations but one.
He is now renting a home with his wife and son.

Theses are good people who are getting the short end of the stick while jpop and Robert get to run free on the hard work of others.
I really don’t care if you ordered a game or not.
If you did you deserve to get your game.

At this point everyone knows the history, or should. If you continue to want to do business with Robert and jpop that’s your business and your choice. I chose not to.
I still believe that honesty and integrity are highly valued.
I believe Robert and jpop to be liars, and thieves.
I want nothing to do with them and I believe they do harm to an otherwise good community.

Maybe the one thing RM was right about is that pinside does feel like a sewer sometimes. The deeproot threads are overflowing with schadenfreude and people who just thrive on misery. It's not helpful.

Plenty of other great threads on Pinside. Lots of positive, helpful, and informative ones.

We went through the collapse of skit-b, heighway, dutch pinball, and zidware. At that point, the warning signs of how pinball companies imploded were pretty clear. There were many warnings about doing preorders with unproven companies. So much so that all the legitimate companies altered their preorder models/methods. Then deeproot entered the picture with all their boisterous claims and strange agreements and other red flags.

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again: paying preorder money to an unproven pinball company is risky.

But, some people just YOLO and figure it's worth the gamble to have a chance at getting a game from a limited run, so they dive in anyway and ride the hype train until the end of the line.

Yeah, it sucks that people that lost money, but it really doesn't take a whole lot of research to determine there were red flags littered everywhere.

The issue is that hype threads are filled with drama and are wildly popular. Avoid those kinds of threads, and I'm sure your forum experience will improve significantly.

Is Pinside a sewer? Ok,Maybe just a little, occasionally. But maybe, this topic is just a little toxic because this RM character seems to have shit all over the hobby, while at the same time robbing several members on this forum?

It seems ripping off over eager, pinball hobbyist is a hobby unto itself. What are we up to now something like 5 of these preorder scams within the last 10 years? Two of which, Btw, involved the same guy. I think people are just tired of seeing these kinds of conmen in the hobby. I thought pre-order (from start ups) was dead two scams ago, but it's more resilient than Rasputin.

Once again, we get it, heard it a million times. Thx again for one more.

As for the “lost money” part, what is it about that you know it to be final?

We all have our own reasons as to why after 7 years some decided to stick it out. EYES WIDE OPEN

Not much more complicated than that. If you to continue to imply that we were idiots with those comments for the 10th time you just don’t get it either

As for avoiding the sewer threads and the people in them? This wasnt supposed to be one of them BUT diarrhea of the mouth is a bad condition going around re DR. So is virtue signaling and self righteousness

Ever heard the term “broken record”. Lol.

Nvm

Never forget the original Pinside scam artist! https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vonnie-d-pinball-update

Apparently, there are still some people out there who are unaware, so it still seems to need repeating.

Educated guess based on past events. When the carpet is getting rolled up on everything and there is no transparency about what's happening, that's usually a pretty big sign that there aren't exactly good things coming. When good things are happening, announcements are typically highly publicized. When bad things are happening, usually they happen as quietly and as quickly as possible before people come beating down the doors.

It should be common sense that a company can't burn cash for years on end without producing any products. It's unsustainable, especially in the pinball industry.

Maybe there will be some hope for refunds--maybe those funds were kept safe in separate escrow account. Or maybe some refunds will be issued from reserves? Maybe they'll dig deep to keep people at bay to avoid lawsuits? I have no idea. But these quiet movements seem to indicate the closure of the project/company.

Yes, and I said as much.

I never said that. I would probably not make the choice to gamble on an unproven company. If you want to and ride it out to the end, that's up to you.

This is simply a word of caution about questionable endeavors and the hype that tends to come along with them.

How so? Orders have been closed for a LONG TIME now.

“Broken record”

Maybe monies were in “escrow” as was indicated, maybe not, maybe other remedies avail.

The “carpet has not been rolled up yet”. Literally NOT. Nothing has changed within the DR facility

And key employees haven’t gotten the roll up memo yet. As of a week or so ago anyhow

“Questionable endeavors and hype”? Regardless of how bad the execution was DR spent millions and millions of $$$, along along with some PPP to boot. Financially speaking, NOTHING like SkitB, Heighway, Zidware or anyone else for that matter

And an SEC Reg D filing to boot

Easy to be an arm chair quarterback after the fact

Obviously. But do you really think this is going to be the last ever pitch for preorder money from someone?

Just because they outspent everybody else doesn't mean they had a viable or successful business model.

I've been curious about that. Has anyone seen the facility in the last couple days? Are there staff still there? Is it sitting dark & idle? Has it been cleaned out? Have the doors been padlocked? Is there anything posted on the doors?

Sure, but I never said anything different back then than what I'm saying right now.

You determined that from day one huh?

Go back and read my site inspection if you are that curious. Lol

Where were you “back then” pounding the table trying to save people then? Hanging out with Ben just waiting for failure?

What have all key employees that have just gotten fired had to say?

Let’s just assume you were living in a “cave” (figuratively, not trying to offend anyone) for the last 10 years till the DR RAZA preorder window opened in December. Where were you and what was your thought process when DR allowed refund a month ago? Just curious

What would you do?

Nothing.

Why do you believe so strongly that deeproot is or could be a viable endeavor, as opposed to yet another failed pinball project/company?

Any idea:

For those who ordered games, were most ordered directly from DR with a deposit on the line? Or from a perhaps safer seller like CT?

Within that group ordering from DR, was there any agreement, or any terms & conditions, that provided comfort (if not a pocket for recovery)?

He was wooed by a fellow lawyer.

You are now misrepresenting my own words based on my lengthy historical commentary on DR from day one. They very same thing you just moderated me for! It’s comical! Lol

In what world did I ever specifically say “I believed so strongly that DR could be a viable endeavor ….”? Especially at this point. In the beginning with all that $$$ before it was f Ed up, of course.

Please don’t twist my words around and misrepresent what I’m saying.

Let’s be clear here as I’ve stated MANY times. Under threat of lawsuit from Robert and “to never contact DR again” etc etc

I strongly believe DR has F Ed up operations in an EPIC fashion with horrendous poor leadership from Robert. Any idiot can see that

Said it many times before, now a “broken record” once again

Financially speaking they can’t possibly turn around DR and recoup the losses in the short term, if ever.

Say what you want but they have raised $42 million in a SEC Reg D filing and still going.

Can they complete games and ship them out going forward? All it takes is more money. You can still call it a failure in the end.

Success right now is just finishing the job of getting games out the door and it can still be defined as a FAILURE that it is NOW.

I wouldn’t invest in this company, not in the beginning OR now or any pinball company for that matter That is why Apple exists. You can put it that way.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/436#post-6432394
Further info on one of the contractors.

I thought this was the pre-oreder club?
So how many people that didn't pre-order just jump in here to start trouble for those that did?

There’s no legit factory that’s going to make games & the head of the company has gone into “hiding”, so the point is moot. If you’re concerned about people making trouble for the pre-orderers, take it up with RM & JP…they’re the cause of any and all troubles.

Just posting what I may know or not towards RAZA. Anyone in on it can decide for themselves. I will be around to guide groups if they seek out my pinball knowledge. Which is what I am doing now. There are likely a number of new pinball upstarts in 2022 with games. The waters are not cold anymore! Just like new Fathom games, & others in the pipeline.

Well, you certainly fooled me about that.

You altered a quote from another post, so it was moderated. If you want to post your thoughts again without doing that, you're welcome to do so.

Throwing more good money after bad doesn't automatically make something a success.

With a good business plan, solid staff, effective leadership, and a viable product--sure, maybe more money could help a company turn things around. Unfortunately, deeproot has not seemed to have had a viable business plan or effective leadership to help get products out the door.

I can't disagree with you there.

Did they or did they not in fact put money down for a pre-order? IIsn't this the RAZA pre-order club? Yes they did so your point is moot.
Go play Ghost Busters and quit trying to gloat.

Provide the citation Consider yourself fooled then

Yeah that was a mistake and not intentional.

No it doesn’t does it. But it’s done all the time isn’t it. And many times it never works out. Sometimes it does. Lessons learned etc etc

And sometimes assets are sold off to other companies from the scrap heap of failure

Yes it is unfortunate thus far I would have to agree with that

Not gloating, and I would never play Goatf***ers. Although unlike RAZA, I could if I wanted. But I won’t.

I just want to hear RM say this before he closes the doors “Pinball is very fkn difficult”