(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

11 months ago


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  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 days ago by jeffspinballpalace
  • Topic is favorited by 89 Pinsiders

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“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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#1951 3 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

What is "potentially in" ? There aren't any games for sale.

I explained earlier. There are. Distributors overseas ordered some and won't take preorders themselves (but interrest lists) for the time being.

#1952 3 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I know it's long and from an outsider but please read.

As I already knew but can't seem to learn, the cross mixture of stimulants and depressants from Irish coffees' can really give me some weird focus. Sorry about the book and all of the extraneous detail.

#1953 3 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I explained earlier. There are. Distributors overseas ordered some and won't take preorders themselves (but interrest lists) for the time being.

Interesting. I had missed that.

#1954 3 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I know it's long and from an outsider but please read.
I was in on the original Zidware fiasco and I got tired of the Pinside abuse just as you guys must be. My solution was to take myself and my brothers off of Pinside and I formed a secret Facebook group. It's easy and quick to do, it's invited members only, and no one, absolutely no one can see or read your private thoughts and no one can discover the group accidently or not. Check Facebook for more information.
Whoever sets up the group is the administrator and they can appoint a co-administrator or two. You already know many of the people that are legitimate RAZA people in this thread and all they need to do is tell you their Facebook profile and the administrator sends them the confidential invitation from the FB group. The administrators can also kick people out.
Unknown people you will need to screen to make sure they are legitimate. **This is critical to keep out the riff raff**. Anybody I was unfamiliar with I had them scan and send me a copy of the Zidware contract before sending them an invite. I don't know what proof you guys might have but I'll leave that up to you. If someone is not on Facebook right now have them join. It's free and easy for anyone to do. And if they don't, too bad for them.
After you have your base group from this thread established, post a notice here for others to join and tell them there is a screening process. You guys have a few RAZA lukers I'm certain.
You have some really solid people in here and I would suggest Yelobird, Frankmac, Fulltilt, DS_Nadine, wrb1977, or Cheeks to be your administrators. There is a lot of really good people here and those are just off the top of my head. Sorry to those that I missed .
I'm telling you, this really works and you will have peace of mind while sending a big screw you to guys like me. The Big Lebowski people in the early years followed me with this idea and they had a blast returning to their Pinside thread now and then and taunting the boo-birds about their private sanctuary.
Also I would strongly suggest that you invite Robert Mueller to the group or an appointee from Deeproot. An appointee would be more likely.
One last thing I will tell you. Iceman will poo poo this idea to death because it's associated with me and he has a never ending vendetta against me. He's a smart guy and can be very convincing so I'll leave it up to you guys.
But I promise you, drain both threads until you're ready and you will have peace of mind and the doubters in this thread will just be talking to themselves. It will drive them crazy.
Also, prepare yourselves for a massive slow down as it wont match the pace of two Pinside threads. It will feel like nothing is happening... But there won't be any heat for you guys either and you can discuss things freely.
Oops. One last, last thing. Iceman will go along if everyone else does but be advised he will dominate the conversation and will try to take the group over. He has an insatiable need to be the center of attention and feel like he's captain of the ship.
Meh, maybe let him be a co-administrator if it makes him feel better. I won't care as I wont be there.
PS. He has me blocked so he might not see this.
Sincere best wishes guys. PM me if you have questions. You guys still have a long ways to go.

Facebook is to Social Media what DeepRoot is to pinball.

#1955 3 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

As I already knew but can't seem to learn, the cross mixture of stimulants and depressants from Irish coffees' can really give me some weird focus. Sorry about the book and all of the extraneous detail.

The funniest thing in that post was when you said “it will feel like nothing is happening”

Lol. “Nothing happening”. Good one!

#1956 3 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I know it's long and from an outsider but please read.
I was in on the original Zidware fiasco and I got tired of the Pinside abuse just as you guys must be. My solution was to take myself and my brothers off of Pinside and I formed a secret Facebook group. It's easy and quick to do, it's invited members only, and no one, absolutely no one can see or read your private thoughts and no one can discover the group accidently or not. Check Facebook for more information.
Whoever sets up the group is the administrator and they can appoint a co-administrator or two. You already know many of the people that are legitimate RAZA people in this thread and all they need to do is tell you their Facebook profile and the administrator sends them the confidential invitation from the FB group. The administrators can also kick people out.
Unknown people you will need to screen to make sure they are legitimate. **This is critical to keep out the riff raff**. Anybody I was unfamiliar with I had them scan and send me a copy of the Zidware contract before sending them an invite. I don't know what proof you guys might have but I'll leave that up to you. If someone is not on Facebook right now have them join. It's free and easy for anyone to do. And if they don't, too bad for them.
After you have your base group from this thread established, post a notice here for others to join and tell them there is a screening process. You guys have a few RAZA lukers I'm certain.
You have some really solid people in here and I would suggest Yelobird, Frankmac, Fulltilt, DS_Nadine, wrb1977, or Cheeks to be your administrators. There is a lot of really good people here and those are just off the top of my head. Sorry to those that I missed .
I'm telling you, this really works and you will have peace of mind while sending a big screw you to guys like me. The Big Lebowski people in the early years followed me with this idea and they had a blast returning to their Pinside thread now and then and taunting the boo-birds about their private sanctuary.
Also I would strongly suggest that you invite Robert Mueller to the group or an appointee from Deeproot. An appointee would be more likely.
One last thing I will tell you. Iceman will poo poo this idea to death because it's associated with me and he has a never ending vendetta against me. He's a smart guy and can be very convincing so I'll leave it up to you guys.
But I promise you, drain both threads until you're ready and you will have peace of mind and the doubters in this thread will just be talking to themselves. It will drive them crazy.
Also, prepare yourselves for a massive slow down as it wont match the pace of two Pinside threads. It will feel like nothing is happening... But there won't be any heat for you guys either and you can discuss things freely.
Oops. One last, last thing. Iceman will go along if everyone else does but be advised he will dominate the conversation and will try to take the group over. He has an insatiable need to be the center of attention and feel like he's captain of the ship.
Meh, maybe let him be a co-administrator if it makes him feel better. I won't care as I wont be there.
PS. He has me blocked so he might not see this.
Sincere best wishes guys. PM me if you have questions. You guys still have a long ways to go.

It's funny, cuz preorder folks COULD open a private FB group, but there'd be nothing to talk about. The group would be pretty quiet until the next update. And who knows how long till the next one.

#1957 3 months ago
Quoted from Scandell:

Made me chuckle.
Boomer post.
[quoted image]

No - simple TLDR... suggesting they move to a private moderated group where they can control the audience. For the boomers, you tell them exactly how to do it

#1958 3 months ago

Couldn't help myself Yelobird, you make the perfect "This Is Fine" meme example. All in good fun!

5i7pws (resized).jpg
#1959 3 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

It's funny, cuz preorder folks COULD open a private FB group, but there'd be nothing to talk about. The group would be pretty quiet until the next update. And who knows how long till the next one.

Over/under odds next update by Dec31

#1960 3 months ago

Hey Pre-order guys. You see how my friends are reacting to my idea? LOL!

#1961 3 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Couldn't help myself Yelobird, you make the perfect "This Is Fine" meme example. All in good fun![quoted image]

No issues. We made this decision so it’s ours to bare. If others feel all warm and bubbly crapping on fellow collectors because we didn’t take their position more power to you. As I have said before. Totally understand the negative vibe towards DR. That’s your right that nobody should need to defend. Why making it personal against others in the hobby makes them feel giddy is beyond me. I’ll tap out when/if the update says they failed. Till then there’s really not much to say.

#1962 3 months ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Facebook is to Social Media what DeepRoot is to pinball.

$350 bucks a share?

#1963 3 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

No issues. We made this decision so it’s ours to bare. If others feel all warm and bubbly crapping on fellow collectors because we didn’t take their position more power to you. As I have said before. Totally understand the negative vibe towards DR. That’s your right that nobody should need to defend. Why making it personal against others in the hobby makes them feel giddy is beyond me. I’ll tap out when/if the update says they failed. Till then there’s really not much to say.

All we've got now is memes and lols.

And nothing personal, but the "This is fine" meme just always pops into my head when we get more bad news and you make a point of saying how much you don't mind.

But like I said, it's all good. I only have bad feelings towards Robert and whoever else is running the show over there.

#1964 3 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

$350 bucks a share?

Yeah, exactly. DeepRoot is $350 a share. Minus the $350. And covered in poop.

#1965 3 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

All we've got now is memes and lols.
And nothing personal, but the "This is fine" meme just always pops into my head when we get more bad news and you make a point of saying how much you don't mind.
But like I said, it's all good. I only have bad feelings towards Robert and whoever else is running the show over there.

So you express that by calling out another pinsider in a meme.
Kind of a dousche move.

#1966 3 months ago

Zap

#1967 3 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

So you express that by calling out another pinsider in a meme.
Kind of a dousche move.

unnamed (resized).jpg
LOL. Man, no one has a sense of humor around pinside these days.

And if you've been following the thread, then you know my meme was on point!

#1968 3 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

[quoted image]
LOL. Man, no one has a sense of humor around pinside these days.
And if you've been following the thread, then you know my meme was on point!

Everyone is looking for a reason to be offended these days..

#1969 3 months ago

RAZA has been racing my TBL. Cointaker just took the final payment on that, so I'm guess it's going to win.
Now it's RAZA vs Ultraman.
Next will be RAZA vs Godzilla.
After that...maybe RAZA vs Ritchie's first JJP title.....

#1970 3 months ago
Quoted from NashtyFunk:

RAZA has been racing my TBL. Cointaker just took the final payment on that, so I'm guess it's going to win.
Now it's RAZA vs Ultraman.
Next will be RAZA vs Godzilla.
After that...maybe RAZA vs Ritchie's first JJP title.....

Raza vs Pins based on movies that haven't even been scripted yet!

#1971 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Minds will be blown.

I can only speak for myself that the ultimate mind-blowing was that people continued to support anything coming out of Zidware. Anything that happens after that pales in comparison. If anyone is claiming they're genuinely surprised by this latest update....they either haven't paid attention at all, live in a cave, or are outright liars. I think most of us expected it despite any claims to the contrary. Meh. At least I can stop following this for a while again.

FWIW the buyers *should* go make their own FB group. It didn't really accomplish much for Zidware in the sense of keeping info off Pinside, as someone's always willing to yap, but if removing yourselves from the equation makes you feel better about things...then go for it. God knows I've made that choice a hundred times on Pinside, and will make that choice again after Ultraman shows up at my door.

#1972 3 months ago
Quoted from NashtyFunk:

RAZA has been racing my TBL. Cointaker just took the final payment on that, so I'm guess it's going to win.
Now it's RAZA vs Ultraman.
Next will be RAZA vs Godzilla.
After that...maybe RAZA vs Ritchie's first JJP title.....

I'll get my HWN sometime in January. Still won't have my RAZA I ordered in December of 2020. This is just pathetic but comical.

#1973 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Everyone is looking for a reason to be offended these days..

Now I am offended by your statement.

#1974 3 months ago
Quoted from NashtyFunk:

RAZA has been racing my TBL. Cointaker just took the final payment on that, so I'm guess it's going to win.
Now it's RAZA vs Ultraman.
Next will be RAZA vs Godzilla.
After that...maybe RAZA vs Ritchie's first JJP title.....

And you already paid in full for which version of RAZA?

#1975 3 months ago

Wow they turned off their Facebook account. Is something a foot at deeprip.

#1976 3 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

Is something a foot at deeprip.

Nope. Nothing a foot. As usual.

#1977 3 months ago

RM's LinkedIn profile is also gone as well as Deeproot Wealth Advisors profile.

Nothing is over until it's over, but I think this is pretty much it, sadly.

#1978 3 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I like this update, it just means the saga continues and it’s going to drive the looky lou’s hanging onto failure absolutely crazy! Minds will be blown.

#1979 3 months ago

The other DR forum is lit up - have to agree not a good sign

#1980 3 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

The other DR forum is lit up - have to agree not a good sign

RM to whoever was still left at DR:

Flee.gif
#1981 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

RM to whoever was still left at DR:
[quoted image]

I don't think there was anyone left .... just JPOP

People fade when checks stop flowing. I know lots of hate for RAZA / DR bummer though at least some machines were not made.

#1982 3 months ago

I hope RM has our money in escrow. The last time I looked I'm not a charity.

#1983 3 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

I don't think there was anyone left .... just JPOP
People fade when checks stop flowing. I know lots of hate for RAZA / DR bummer though at least some machines were not made.

I was hoping for a better outcome. I know I posted some negative things after the April update. I was just being pragmatic. I know we all wanted our machine and these guys to succeed, but RM should never have opened up for orders until they were ready to build. At very least nobody deserves to lose money on this.

#1984 3 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

I was hoping for a better outcome. I know I posted some negative things after the April update. I was just being pragmatic. I know we all wanted our machine and these guys to succeed, but RM should never have opened up for orders until they were ready to build. At very least nobody deserves to lose money on this.

Let the lawsuits commence!!!!

Oh Jpop - the only thing you’re successful at: failing and getting sued.

#1985 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Let the lawsuits commence!!!!
Oh Jpop - the only thing you’re successful at: failing and getting sued.

There is a potential fraud here. Those contracts may be null and void. Get the lawyers looking at it.

#1986 3 months ago

So who's going to get the prototypes. Are we just going to saw them down and everyone gets a piece.

#1987 3 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

I hope RM has our money in escrow. The last time I looked I'm not a charity.

Escrow? Does it matter, those were non-refundable deposits- no? I wouldn’t expect anything back if they fold

#1988 3 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

So who's going to get the prototypes. Are we just going to saw them down and everyone gets a piece.

Auction them off, all proceeds go to paying back deposits & employees who were stiffed.

#1989 3 months ago

Just guessing since there were Zidware settlements that maybe 80-90 of the "supposed" 120 +/- orders were actual deposits with a blend of Arcade and XTRA editions that at the most he had was maybe $100K in deposits.

Its not like this was a big scam to get rich, even if he hoped for more, this was just a guy who loved pinball and tried to make a run for it as a manufacturer (maybe to sell the company later, sell it as part of a fund, god knows). He may have been well intentioned but ego, bravado, micro-management made production unlikely if not impossible. I am sure the funds to operate dried up (from wherever that money came from) and he may have some dream of still making these games but I think the reality is maybe some deposits (just DR deposits - not Zidware) might come back because it is not much money and would cost more to fight then to pay out, if he cares to save somewhat of a reputation or his professional name. Zidware people are the ones out the most unless they took the cash right away when offered.

Just not much money on the line for a deposit for an Arcade - not even $700. If it is gone it is gone....not happy about it but not going to lose sleep over it. I will take all the I told you so's in order, I guess I deserve it.

#1990 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Auction them off, all proceeds go to paying back deposits & employees who were stiffed.

This. Though I'd say pay back the employees first. They didn't sign up thinking they'd losing wages. Plus I've been there before and it sucks. We backers, on the other hand, did sign up knowing we may potentially lose our deposits.

Quoted from Mbecker:

Escrow? Does it matter, those were non-refundable deposits- no? I wouldn’t expect anything back if they fold

Correct. All backers should have known this going in. If they didn't they must have been living under a rock or are unable to read.

#1991 3 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Just guessing since there were Zidware settlements that maybe 80-90 of the "supposed" 120 +/- orders were actual deposits with a blend of Arcade and XTRA editions that at the most he had was maybe $100K in deposits.
Its not like this was a big scam to get rich, even if he hoped for more, this was just a guy who loved pinball and tried to make a run for it as a manufacturer (maybe to sell the company later, sell it as part of a fund, god knows). He may have been well intentioned but ego, bravado, micro-management made production unlikely if not impossible. I am sure the funds to operate dried up (from wherever that money came from) and he may have some dream of still making these games but I think the reality is maybe some deposits (just DR deposits - not Zidware) might come back because it is not much money and would cost more to fight then to pay out, if he cares to save somewhat of a reputation or his professional name. Zidware people are the ones out the most unless they took the cash right away when offered.
Just not much money on the line for a deposit for an Arcade - not even $700. If it is gone it is gone....not happy about it but not going to lose sleep over it. I will take all the I told you so's in order, I guess I deserve it.

Good point. The Zidware people and employees are the ones really getting shafted. I just he would have been more honest up front. Again he never should have opened this game up for sale until it was finalized. I've lost in this too. Guess we take the lumps but I will never order anything again if that name is attached.

#1992 3 months ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Escrow? Does it matter, those were non-refundable deposits- no? I wouldn’t expect anything back if they fold

Non refundable was if you cancelled your order not if they didn't produce. But it's a loss anyways. It's too bad

#1993 3 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

Good point. The Zidware people and employees are the ones really getting shafted. I just he would have been more honest up front. Again he never should have opened this game up for sale until it was finalized. I've lost in this too. Guess we take the lumps but I will never order anything again if that name is attached.

I disagree about the Zidware people getting shafted (or at least the ones who took advantage of the Goodwill Agreement). They all had the opportunity to cash out when the Goodwill terms were not met.

#1994 3 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Let the lawsuits commence!!!!
Oh Jpop - the only thing you’re successful at: failing and getting sued.

Seriously - over $100K in deposits - maybe...

Call me a fool but I will not spend hundreds to get my $600 back - It was a bet, I lost, move on. Shit I have dumped more then that into a restore of a pinball and never recovered it.

I genuinely thought the theme was interesting, I liked the art, etc. I did not look at this as some FOMO limited edition non-playing Magic Girl to make $$$ on.

#1995 3 months ago

Zidware were full machine deposits, this was 10% down. Just would not be worth the effort for most. I think you remove Zidware claimants you got a handful of paying deposits a mix of the cheaper Arcade and XTRA units just not huge losses here.

I am sure everyone is not happy about this but I knew there was a risk and I accepted that when I put a non-refundable deposit down.

#1996 3 months ago
Quoted from brucipher:

I disagree about the Zidware people getting shafted (or at least the ones who took advantage of the Goodwill Agreement). They all had the opportunity to cash out when the Goodwill terms were not met.

Zidware was a bet on the RAZA - easy to understand they considered the money lost already. Hindsight is great.

#1997 3 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Seriously - over $100K in deposits - maybe...
Call me a fool but I will not spend hundreds to get my $600 back - It was a bet, I lost, move on. Shit I have dumped more then that into a restore of a pinball and never recovered it.
I genuinely thought the theme was interesting, I liked the art, etc. I did not look at this as some FOMO limited edition non-playing Magic Girl to make $$$ on.

Exactly, those who out a deposit down as a bet. With all of the previous info out there, that's all this was, a bet.

#1998 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Exactly, those who out a deposit down as a bet. With all of the previous info out there, that's all this was, a bet.

Take it as a gambling loss on your taxes. That's all you can do.

#1999 3 months ago

I say flood their contact page...

#2000 3 months ago
Quoted from FlawlessJS:

I say flood their contact page...

lol ... big assumption that anybody will read those emails

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