Quoted from kklank:

As a Preorder, I completely respect your opinion.
I personally don’t have any hatred for anybody in pinball really. For me, it’s just business.
If I get my machine…..fantastic. If I don’t, we’ll that’s one in the loss column. Win some, you lose some. No big whoop.

Quoted from Stemmy:

You maybe 1 of the most pragmatic people ever. Hate is a strong word. I just don't like those that are not transparent. I don't care how wealthy people are. People laid down cash period. Either shut up and color or get people their money back. I still want my machine that I ordered. If u weren't there then pre orders should not have happened. I'm entitled to bitch

Quoted from Stemmy:

At the end of the day we are still stake holders. If RM can't be transparent I know I'm not the last 1 who will say good bye I will never order another machine from you.

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Duke Nukem Forever was the definition of vaporware (srsly), yet it was still released decades later.
So Deeproot is still not near as close to vaporware yet and even if, there still might be a game at the end of it.
I actually mildly liked Duke Nukem Forever. It has a pinball machine in it as well!

Quoted from Stemmy:

You maybe 1 of the most pragmatic people ever. Hate is a strong word. I just don't like those that are not transparent. I don't care how wealthy people are. People laid down cash period. Either shut up and color or get people their money back. I still want my machine that I ordered. If u weren't there then pre orders should not have happened. I'm entitled to bitch

Quoted from Haymaker:

lol you said this last time too and not only is it cringe but its also foolish.

Quoted from Rarehero:

RAZA cultists were still attacking me & threatening me

Quoted from kklank:

As a Preorder, I completely respect your opinion.
I personally don’t have any hatred for anybody in pinball really. For me, it’s just business.
If I get my machine…..fantastic. If I don’t, we’ll that’s one in the loss column. Win some, you lose some. No big whoop.

Quoted from Makakka:

you little snowflake...

Quoted from Cheeks:

Fair enough...

And yet, last I checked, that other thread isn't full of sympathy and well-wishes. It's full of angst and hostility. Which was the basis of my point. Why? These people HAVE to have more constructive things to do.

This was no doubt caused by the ineptitude, dishonesty, and incompetence of those you mention. But the toxicity is heavily buoyed by the vitriol of the people posting on Pinside.

In general, I agree. I've never felt their misdeeds should be swept under the rug, but after literally thousands of posts, how exactly is all the venom spewing helping anything? I have not bothered to go in the other thread in many months, but what else can there possibly be to say anymore? And this is my point. I'm in the middle of this (I have money on the line) and I have WAY better things to do than rant to a bunch of people online about what isn't happening. How can this possibly be an enjoyable endeavor for anyone, especially those who aren't directly impacted? I'll never get it.
If this really was about people wanting to help out and provide "consequences" for what's gone down, then maybe set up a picket line outside deeproot headquarters, or put up a "JPOP is an asshat and stole my money" billboard down the block from them, or TP Robert's lawn. Anything would have to be more constructive than jerking each other off in an isolated thread on Pinside.

LOL. I don't believe this. What has there been, 2 or 3 virtually non-updates in 7 months? It's not like there's any new information coming out. It's not like we don't all know what probably *isn't* happening at deeproot. And yet that thread is on fire every day for 7 months? For reasons unclear to me, this topic seems to be self-sustaining. Honestly, if deeproot continued to give non-updates once every 3-6 months for the next 4 years, somehow that thread would continue to be on fire. It makes no sense. What can be said, has been said. And frankly, I agree with a lot of the cynicism and disbelief regarding what's gone down. I just posted recently that I don't understand the people on the other side in this thread that feel all rainbows and unicorns about things either. It's the constant and perpetual beating the negativity into the ground that feels so petty.

Hey, we agree on something.

Quoted from Rarehero:

the RAZA cultists were still attacking me & threatening me

Quoted from Makakka:

you little snowflake...

Quoted from wrb1977:

It’s official...
The RAZA preorder thread is just an extension of the main deeproot thread (aka the sewer). It’s sad that something as simple as respecting the wishes of the OP as he stated in his very first post cannot be adhered to. Once again, and this time I’ll try to make it stand out...from the OP’s very first post as to the intent of this thread and who is welcome to participate...
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
As in...and I’ll go slow for you...all you inconsiderate, disrespectful, shit stirring Pinsiders should not be here unless you...ready for it???...
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
And finally, those that say you are looking out for us...
WE ALREADY PUT OUR HARD EARNED MONEY DOWN ON SOMETHING WE HOPE TO OWN CAUSE IT LOOKS COOL AND FUN!!!
So instead of making fun of us, thinking we are a bunch of idiots, and thinking we are clueless not seeing the red flags (cause guess what??? we are very aware of all of them!!!), why don’t you try being more supportive of your fellow pinheads and hope their gamble pays off, and not lose the money they already spent. We are all here cause we love pinball! Deeproot failing, which many of you hope happens, only results in your fellow pinball enthusiasts getting hurt and jobs being lost at deeproot. Show some class. Feel free to talk all the shit you want in the general deeproot thread...not here!
I’ll see those of you that preordered RAZA in the owner’s thread assuming they eventually ship. Any of you preorder guys feel free to PM me anytime to discuss this journey outside of the “two” sewers.

Quoted from wrb1977:

It’s official...
The RAZA preorder thread is just an extension of the main deeproot thread (aka the sewer). It’s sad that something as simple as respecting the wishes of the OP as he stated in his very first post cannot be adhered to. Once again, and this time I’ll try to make it stand out...from the OP’s very first post as to the intent of this thread and who is welcome to participate...
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
As in...and I’ll go slow for you...all you inconsiderate, disrespectful, shit stirring Pinsiders should not be here unless you...ready for it???...
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
And finally, those that say you are looking out for us...
WE ALREADY PUT OUR HARD EARNED MONEY DOWN ON SOMETHING WE HOPE TO OWN CAUSE IT LOOKS COOL AND FUN!!!
So instead of making fun of us, thinking we are a bunch of idiots, and thinking we are clueless not seeing the red flags (cause guess what??? we are very aware of all of them!!!), why don’t you try being more supportive of your fellow pinheads and hope their gamble pays off, and not lose the money they already spent. We are all here cause we love pinball! Deeproot failing, which many of you hope happens, only results in your fellow pinball enthusiasts getting hurt and jobs being lost at deeproot. Show some class. Feel free to talk all the shit you want in the general deeproot thread...not here!
I’ll see those of you that preordered RAZA in the owner’s thread assuming they eventually ship. Any of you preorder guys feel free to PM me anytime to discuss this journey outside of the “two” sewers.

Quoted from Makakka:

I didnt talk to you but to the first-hand receivers of the update. You dont qualify esp. not for this thread.

Quoted from wrb1977:

“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”

“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”

“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”

Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!

Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!

Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!

As in...and I’ll go slow for you...all you inconsiderate, disrespectful, shit stirring Pinsiders should not be here unless you...ready for it???...

PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!

PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!

PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!

Quoted from wrb1977:

It’s official...
The RAZA preorder thread is just an extension of the main deeproot thread (aka the sewer). It’s sad that something as simple as respecting the wishes of the OP as he stated in his very first post cannot be adhered to. Once again, and this time I’ll try to make it stand out...from the OP’s very first post as to the intent of this thread and who is welcome to participate...
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
As in...and I’ll go slow for you...all you inconsiderate, disrespectful, shit stirring Pinsiders should not be here unless you...ready for it???...
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
And finally, those that say you are looking out for us...
WE ALREADY PUT OUR HARD EARNED MONEY DOWN ON SOMETHING WE HOPE TO OWN CAUSE IT LOOKS COOL AND FUN!!!
So instead of making fun of us, thinking we are a bunch of idiots, and thinking we are clueless not seeing the red flags (cause guess what??? we are very aware of all of them!!!), why don’t you try being more supportive of your fellow pinheads and hope their gamble pays off, and not lose the money they already spent. We are all here cause we love pinball! Deeproot failing, which many of you hope happens, only results in your fellow pinball enthusiasts getting hurt and jobs being lost at deeproot. Show some class. Feel free to talk all the shit you want in the general deeproot thread...not here!
I’ll see those of you that preordered RAZA in the owner’s thread assuming they eventually ship. Any of you preorder guys feel free to PM me anytime to discuss this journey outside of the “two” sewers.

Quoted from littlecammi:

What do the RAZA pre-order guys think of a RAZA pre-order guy who hopes that Deeproot fails and goes bankrupt - but only after he gets his own RAZA delivered ? Figuring the fewer Deeproot games that are ever produced the more his rare RAZA will be worth?

Quoted from spfxted:

So do I need to have pre ordered RAZA to post here?

Quoted from metallik:

lol
I'm here as a pre-player. You'll get your precious club when dr ships a game. Complain to them, not us.

Quoted from metallik:

I'm here as a pre-player. You'll get your precious club when dr ships a game. Complain to them, not us.

Quoted from kklank:

What in the fuck is a “pre-player”??????

Quoted from Yelobird:A brief intermission from recent wave of Raza analysts... Our playfield (2) showed up today donated by DR to Project Pinball to support Gilbert Elijah and his family. The Mod Couple is Proud to support the amazing efforts and kindness of the Project Pinball team. Amazing people!!!! Now we have an uncut and prototype Raza on display autographed by the team at DR. Both look spectacular and remarkably all the inserts are well defined and look great. lol
Fun project: The other thread can use this as a "Wheres Waldo" hunt to see which names are new or old from 1 year ago! Have fun!
[quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from kklank:

Let me see here………….I’ve got a used Dolly playfield, Big Game and Harlem Globetrotters And new Quicksilver playfield I’ll trade you for the prototype.

Quoted from wrb1977:

Deeproot failing, which many of you hope happens, only results in your fellow pinball enthusiasts getting hurt and jobs being lost at deeproot.

Quoted from Yelobird:

hunting for grains of nothing

Quoted from Frax:

Ya'll want to have a hissy fit over anything that doesn't agree with your position,

Quoted from Yelobird:

Oddly it feels the exact Opposite from my position. lol

Quoted from Frax:

I primarily would like Deeproot to succeed just for Bowden's sake. It's terrible that guy gave up a career to go work for a company that sure SEEMS like it's going to explode. Take that as you will.

Quoted from Yelobird:

Heck no your always welcome. All I request is an autographed copy (to buy) of your soon to release monster mag to complete my awesome collection.

Quoted from wrb1977:

It’s official...
The RAZA preorder thread is just an extension of the main deeproot thread (aka the sewer). It’s sad that something as simple as respecting the wishes of the OP as he stated in his very first post cannot be adhered to. Once again, and this time I’ll try to make it stand out...from the OP’s very first post as to the intent of this thread and who is welcome to participate...
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
“Starting a thread to allow people that have pre-ordered RAZA to discuss their purchase outside of the general Deeproot thread.”
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
Got it??? PEOPLE THAT HAVE PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
As in...and I’ll go slow for you...all you inconsiderate, disrespectful, shit stirring Pinsiders should not be here unless you...ready for it???...
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
PRE-ORDERED RAZA!!!
And finally, those that say you are looking out for us...
WE ALREADY PUT OUR HARD EARNED MONEY DOWN ON SOMETHING WE HOPE TO OWN CAUSE IT LOOKS COOL AND FUN!!!
So instead of making fun of us, thinking we are a bunch of idiots, and thinking we are clueless not seeing the red flags (cause guess what??? we are very aware of all of them!!!), why don’t you try being more supportive of your fellow pinheads and hope their gamble pays off, and not lose the money they already spent. We are all here cause we love pinball! Deeproot failing, which many of you hope happens, only results in your fellow pinball enthusiasts getting hurt and jobs being lost at deeproot. Show some class. Feel free to talk all the shit you want in the general deeproot thread...not here!
I’ll see those of you that preordered RAZA in the owner’s thread assuming they eventually ship. Any of you preorder guys feel free to PM me anytime to discuss this journey outside of the “two” sewers.

Quoted from spfxted:

Which one?
[quoted image]

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

The main reason this thread got woke and is keeping it real now, may be because no public thread on Pinside can be used to exclude non-owners. As such anyone interested in a thread can respond. But you may say, “This is an Owners’ thread and Pinside etiquette is no one can post negative or unflattering comments”. That part is true but remember, Pinside has a hard rule against allowing an Owners thread to be opened BEFORE production is underway. For that reason this thread is an illegitimate Owners thread, and it has become more of a really popular place to post your thoughts on Deeproot, while they get their shit together and build 130 mf games.
If that had occurred as promised by Deeproot at the time of selling and accepting deposits on RAZA, the games would have been built in March. The past four months of posts in this thread would have been about how great the game was. People would be requesting tweaks to the rules, Mod Makers would be swimming in orders for accouterments. We’d be over at threads reading about Deeproot games #2 and #3.

Quoted from spfxted:

Which one?
[quoted image]

Quoted from DakotaMike:

Hey man, lighten up, you're taking this waaaay too seriously! Just laugh it all off and don't take the comments personally. Robert is the one you should be upset with. All of this is more or less his fault.
Besides, I haven't actually seen anyone calling preorder folks idiots. I've questioned your guys' confidence, and your seemingly unending patience with deeproot's delays.
I'd happily shake hands (metaphorically, at this point) with any of you in real-life. Especially Yelobird, with whom I've sparred with the most.

Quoted from iceman44:Actually I don’t hate anybody

Quoted from JodyG:

Except the half of Pinside you have blocked.

Quoted from Frax:

Ooh, Metropolis!

Quoted from iceman44:

I get the hate for Robert and Jpop. Been a Jpop victim from day one.
Actually I don’t hate anybody and I certainly would never openly root for anyone’s failure especially when there are other good people and families affected.
Even if you don’t like someone you don’t hope they lose their jobs and have their families suffer. Even John
To DR credit they tried to right the Jpop wrong which they never had to and probably regret now
Carry on

Quoted from kklank:

This thread has certainly been interesting. Lol.
I don’t get it but to me it’s just pinball. All fun stuff.
Hey Yelobird,
What kind of beer you want when you come over and play this machine when it finally comes out?
I’m going to have some Miller Lite bottles and some Pappy Van Winkle I got as a gift for a special occasion. Maybe over the rocks.
The maybe some Pineapple Guppy IPA after.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

The main reason this thread got woke and is keeping it real now, may be because no public thread on Pinside can be used to exclude non-owners