(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

3 years ago


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  • 3,299 posts
  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Nysbadmk8
  • Topic is favorited by 73 Pinsiders

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“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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21
#1701 2 years ago
Quoted from Makakka:

Would be nice if buyers would keep it confidential to dry out the sewer.

I love how asking questions and pointing out facts makes one part of the sewer. Us "sewer rats" wouldn't have any ammunition if deeproot would stop missing their own self-generated timelines, and would just get the games out the door.

#1702 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

So in addition to the July 4th non-update, the forecasted July 19th update was missed too? Now we have Wilhelm at Deeproot promising an update this week. If that doesn’t happen, does Deeproot miss another deadline or does that one not count because Robert never posted it himself, in writing? Sorry, I’ll sit quietly for a few days to give Robert time to deliver his state of the union.

You’re hilarious. Just trolling’ huh?
Don’t you have better things to do with your time?

#1703 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

You’re hilarious. Just trolling’ huh?
Don’t you have better things to do with your time?

Just looks like facts to me. If that's trolling then I have a bridge to sell you.

13
#1704 2 years ago

I'm just popping in to say I wish you guys would leave the pre-order people alone.

None of you are going to change the other's mind. If anything you're making them more fortified in their position.

Come on back to the sewer. The water is warm and toxic! (Or a cold splash of reality depending on perspective )

#1705 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

Don’t you have better things to do with your time?

I wonder this all the time about so many people around here (and basically internet forums on just about any topic). Without pointing figures at anyone in particular, some people must have incredibly pathetic and depressing lives. The constant attention paid by people regarding things they don't even like is beyond me. Whether it's ranting about a deeproot game you didn't purchase, constantly shitting on Stern/JJP/<any vendor> just so you can fan the flames, trolling / starting internet fights, or any other obsession about something you don't have any interest in - I categorically don't get it.

Hell, I get exhausted even thinking about catching up on an owners thread for a game I own (and care about), much less keeping tabs on things I don't like.

I guess I just don't understand the typical internet user mentality. I tend to live my life AVOIDING things I don't care about, if I can help it. To spend large percentages of your life spewing negativity on an internet forum just feels so sad. Why can't people find something they like and go do it! The number of people that would rather make enemies than friends baffles me. But I guess take a look at the world these days and I don't understand why I continue to be surprised.

#1706 2 years ago
Quoted from Makakka:

Else publish the update to fuel comments like this wanting to educate us to see "what´s up" because we are blind sheep who can´t see. Its our own fault this thread gots flooded by the sewer bc the hungry wolf returns to where he got food.

Um….or….maybe people just like facts. It’s really simple. This story isn’t just about you.

20
#1707 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

The constant attention paid by people regarding things they don't even like is beyond me.

Your premise is flawed. This is beyond “things people don’t like”. This is a decade long story of our friends and fellow hobbyists being taken for a ride. The story is what it is. Its toxicity is purely on those who created the problem. There’s nothing wrong with discussing it. Actions have consequences, and people who do bad things shouldn’t be ignored - it just allows them to continue hurting people. We all just want this thing to reach a conclusion. It’s bad for the hobby in a multitude of ways, not just for those who “bought” one.

#1708 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I wonder this all the time about so many people around here (and basically internet forums on just about any topic). Without pointing figures at anyone in particular, some people must have incredibly pathetic and depressing lives. The constant attention paid by people regarding things they don't even like is beyond me. Whether it's ranting about a deeproot game you didn't purchase, constantly shitting on Stern/JJP/<any vendor> just so you can fan the flames, trolling / starting internet fights, or any other obsession about something you don't have any interest in - I categorically don't get it.
Hell, I get exhausted even thinking about catching up on an owners thread for a game I own (and care about), much less keeping tabs on things I don't like.
I guess I just don't understand the typical internet user mentality. I tend to live my life AVOIDING things I don't care about, if I can help it. To spend large percentages of your life spewing negativity on an internet forum just feels so sad. Why can't people find something they like and go do it! The number of people that would rather make enemies than friends baffles me. But I guess take a look at the world these days and I don't understand why I continue to be surprised.

Well said completely confusing to me??

#1709 2 years ago
Quoted from Makakka:

Would be nice if buyers would keep it confidential to dry out the sewer.

lol you said this last time too and not only is it cringe but its also foolish. We're getting it one way or another, even if somebody doesn't post it in this thread. Kaneda will post it, or someone on the pinball FB groups. Thats where I've seen it every time so far and usually before it even makes its way here.

"Noooo we're going to get more bad news we can't let more people see it, they might make fun of us!" lol come on man.

#1710 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

This is beyond “things people don’t like”.

Fair enough...

Quoted from Rarehero:

This is a decade long story of our friends and fellow hobbyists being taken for a ride.

And yet, last I checked, that other thread isn't full of sympathy and well-wishes. It's full of angst and hostility. Which was the basis of my point. Why? These people HAVE to have more constructive things to do.

Quoted from Rarehero:

It’s toxicity is purely on those who created the problem.

This was no doubt caused by the ineptitude, dishonesty, and incompetence of those you mention. But the toxicity is heavily buoyed by the vitriol of the people posting on Pinside.

Quoted from Rarehero:

There’s nothing wrong with discussing it. Actions have consequences, and people who do bad things shouldn’t be ignored - it just allows them to continue hurting people.

In general, I agree. I've never felt their misdeeds should be swept under the rug, but after literally thousands of posts, how exactly is all the venom spewing helping anything? I have not bothered to go in the other thread in many months, but what else can there possibly be to say anymore? And this is my point. I'm in the middle of this (I have money on the line) and I have WAY better things to do than rant to a bunch of people online about what isn't happening. How can this possibly be an enjoyable endeavor for anyone, especially those who aren't directly impacted? I'll never get it.

If this really was about people wanting to help out and provide "consequences" for what's gone down, then maybe set up a picket line outside deeproot headquarters, or put up a "JPOP is an asshat and stole my money" billboard down the block from them, or TP Robert's lawn. Anything would have to be more constructive than jerking each other off in an isolated thread on Pinside.

Quoted from Rarehero:

We all just want this thing to reach a conclusion.

LOL. I don't believe this. What has there been, 2 or 3 virtually non-updates in 7 months? It's not like there's any new information coming out. It's not like we don't all know what probably *isn't* happening at deeproot. And yet that thread is on fire every day for 7 months? For reasons unclear to me, this topic seems to be self-sustaining. Honestly, if deeproot continued to give non-updates once every 3-6 months for the next 4 years, somehow that thread would continue to be on fire. It makes no sense. What can be said, has been said. And frankly, I agree with a lot of the cynicism and disbelief regarding what's gone down. I just posted recently that I don't understand the people on the other side in this thread that feel all rainbows and unicorns about things either. It's the constant and perpetual beating the negativity into the ground that feels so petty.

Quoted from Rarehero:

It’s bad for the hobby in a multitude of ways, not just for those who “bought” one.

Hey, we agree on something.

#1711 2 years ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

But he DID delay an update DS_Nadine--Robert said after the 4th of July holiday he'd give an update.

It IS, after July 4th. And next week. And the week after.

Plz. read again his exact wording.

He specifically said that there will NOT be an immidiate update after July 4th, it's just they don't think that they will have any updateworthy progress before that date.

He may have broken your hopes but no promises.

#1712 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Your premise is flawed. This is beyond “things people don’t like”. This is a decade long story of our friends and fellow hobbyists being taken for a ride. The story is what it is. Its toxicity is purely on those who created the problem. There’s nothing wrong with discussing it. Actions have consequences, and people who do bad things shouldn’t be ignored - it just allows them to continue hurting people. We all just want this thing to reach a conclusion. It’s bad for the hobby in a multitude of ways, not just for those who “bought” one.

I completely understand where you’re coming from.
No disrespect but this is the RAZA pre-order Club thread. It’s for people that actually placed an order. So I come to this thread to talk to other people that have placed an order. It’s a “Club” thread.
For example, I don’t go to JJP Guns and Roses Club thread and take a shit on it. You know why? It’s because I don’t OWN one.
I don’t waste my time and pretty sure the GNR club thread doesn’t care about my thoughts of where JJP stands. Nor would I want to rain on anyone’s parade.

I think you’re looking for the Deep Root Thread.

#1713 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

No disrespect but this is the RAZA pre-order Club thread. It’s for people that actually placed an order. So I come to this thread to talk to other people that have placed an order. It’s a “Club” thread.
For example, I don’t go to JJP Guns and Roses Club thread and take a shit on it. You know why? It’s because I don’t OWN one.

You also don't own a RAZA. Club threads are for actual games, not vaporware. Get DR to ship one machine and y'all can have an official club of your own. Til then this is just a gathering of hopefuls.

I mean, the texas dude has a zidware game in his 'owned in the past' list. You can't have owned something that never existed. This thread is funny in a sad way

#1714 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

You also don't own a RAZA. Club threads are for actual games, not vaporware. Get DR to ship one machine and y'all can have an official club of your own. Til then this is just a gathering of hopefuls.
I mean, the texas dude has a zidware game in his 'owned in the past' list. You can't have owned something that never existed. This thread is funny in a sad way

I own Duke Nukem Forever.

#1715 2 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I own Duke Nukem Forever.

I must be missing the joke here. The game was released. Or is the joke that it was released and a total piece of crap?

#1716 2 years ago

Yeah, because unlike zidware stuff, that game eventually did get made.

Will RAZA be like DNF: a big letdown after waiting over a decade?

#1717 2 years ago

4 cars in the parking lot on Tuesday at 3:30

Maybe moved or moving out.

Not a great sign. “Payroll” appears to have been slashed

#1718 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

4 cars in the parking lot on Tuesday at 3:30

Is there a reason you can't just go in the door and ask "hey what's up?"

-2
#1719 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Is there a reason you can't just go in the door and ask "hey what's up?"

Is there a reason you or anyone in the other group don’t?? You guys seem to be the ones in despair needing something to chat about. Go knock, ring the bell do whatever you like. Have fun!

14
#1720 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Is there a reason you or anyone in the other group don’t??

Yeah: distance. I'm not driving 1000 miles to check, but if he's already in the parking lot...?

Any other silly questions?

#1721 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Is there a reason you or anyone in the other group don’t?? You guys seem to be the ones in despair needing something to chat about. Go knock, ring the bell do whatever you like. Have fun!

To be fair, I offered to go down there and sign a NDA a LONG time ago if they were willing to show me anything that looked like real games or real production. All I wanted to do was be able to say if I felt like they were legit or not, not speak about any of the games or their tech directly.

Nobody took me up on it.

#1722 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Any other silly questions?

Nope, you guys covered most of those multiple times thanks.

#1723 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Nope, you guys covered most of those multiple times thanks.

Had to give you a thumbs up for that one.

#1724 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

4 cars in the parking lot on Tuesday at 3:30

You forgot to mention there were zero cars in the lot on Friday. ...not a good sign.

#1725 2 years ago
Quoted from SunKing:

You forgot to mention there were zero cars in the lot on Friday. ...not a good sign.

Hmm...I wonder if the update will be that they've moved into a new facility?

#1726 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

I completely understand where you’re coming from.
No disrespect but this is the RAZA pre-order Club thread. It’s for people that actually placed an order. So I come to this thread to talk to other people that have placed an order. It’s a “Club” thread.

I understand that and actually was respecting those rules...I didn't post here at all for quite some time. Even so, the RAZA cultists were still attacking me & threatening me....and I still wasn't posting! You're welcome!

...but, it seems like free conversation in this thread has become okeedokee. Non-buyers aren't getting moderated for posting here. So, hey - let's just enjoy the conversation! Keeps the thread bumped. Might remind RM to send you guys something.

#1727 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

I must be missing the joke here. The game was released. Or is the joke that it was released and a total piece of crap?

Duke Nukem Forever was the definition of vaporware (srsly), yet it was still released decades later.

So Deeproot is still not near as close to vaporware yet and even if, there still might be a game at the end of it.

I actually mildly liked Duke Nukem Forever. It has a pinball machine in it as well!

#1728 2 years ago
Quoted from SunKing:

You forgot to mention there were zero cars in the lot on Friday. ...not a good sign.

It’s a huge facility. They certainly put the cart before the horse on that lease.

Maybe everyone was on siesta mid day?

Delta variant concerns?

I’ll check again on Thursday.

#1729 2 years ago

Dear god Deeproot Please send Any update even a lunch menu so these guys can go back to there cave and over analyze it for a few weeks lol. I’ll say it again, at this point I only want this game made now so these guys have nothing else to talk about lol. Though not likely.

#1730 2 years ago

Food Truck lunch menu would be good enough.

#1731 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

at this point I only want this game made now so these guys have nothing else to talk about lol

Oh come on, if this is released we'll be talking about it even more. How does it shoot, where is it available to play, does the pinbar work, is the code complete...

You'll also finally get a real club thread then so there's that.

The one thing that will hopefully change with a release is your grumpy attitude

#1732 2 years ago

Saw a lot of action and came here to see fighting and no pins. SNAFU

#1733 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Oh come on, if this is released we'll be talking about it even more. How does it shoot, where is it available to play, does the pinbar work, is the code complete...
You'll also finally get a real club thread then so there's that.
The one thing that will hopefully change with a release is your grumpy attitude

Come on it’s all love. I know my arcade will always be open to anyone that wants to give it a flip. It’s only pinball.

#1734 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Come on it’s all love. I know my arcade will always be open to anyone that wants to give it a flip. It’s only pinball.

I want you to get your game so bad, i want to play it in Oct.
I want everybody with a deposit and payment to get a game.
I also want Robert to get into the game finally.
Fingers crossed for everyone.

#1735 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

so these guys can go back to there cave

tenor.giftenor.gif
#1736 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Come on it’s all love. I know my arcade will always be open to anyone that wants to give it a flip. It’s only pinball.

Agreed.

#1737 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Come on it’s all love. I know my arcade will always be open to anyone that wants to give it a flip. It’s only pinball.

So many people don’t get that simple fact do they? “It’s only pinball” and we are having fun enjoying it, or at least trying.

And some days you just gotta laugh if off.

The DR Derangement Club are the only ones losing any sleep. . It’s a joke fellas so don’t get your panties in a wad

#1738 2 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

I want you to get your game so bad, i want to play it in Oct.
I want everybody with a deposit and payment to get a game.
I also want Robert to get into the game finally.
Fingers crossed for everyone.

Thanks Eric, that’s very nice of you to say

#1739 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The DR Derangement Club are the only ones losing any sleep. . It’s a joke fellas so don’t get your panties in a wad

I enjoy the back and forth in these threads the same way I appreciate shows like American Greed. Not losing any sleep over it, but I find it hard to look away as well. We're on like season 7 of the jpop saga, and every episode is a cliffhanger. I hope you all get your games.

#1740 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Saw a lot of action and came here to see fighting and no pins. SNAFU

More like FUBAR...just sayin'

#1741 2 years ago
Quoted from roffels:

I enjoy the back and forth in these threads the same way I appreciate shows like American Greed. Not losing any sleep over it, but I find it hard to look away as well. We're on like season 7 of the jpop saga, and every episode is a cliffhanger

Yup. I still remember reading the very first announcement of Magic Girl on RGP, doing some quick math and immediately realizing jpop really had no business sense. Can't release a game from scratch with <1M. The numbers were quickly tweaked, more games to come, pictures of stupid stuff like spiky leg bolts and lightning-bolt head hinges. Ben came, Ben left, more announcements (AiW), fake games (the Kiss foamboard thing), fake reveals (the twin cabinets at Expo with nothing inside), more (horny-old-man) game announcements (pussy cat bowling), lawsuits, bankruptcies, pintasia trying to salvage the mess...

I can't imagine anything like this in any other entertainment genre. Even DNF didn't have as many ups n downs and false starts as all this jpop stuff.

14
#1742 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

It's full of angst and hostility. Which was the basis of my point. Why? These people HAVE to have more constructive things to do.

Where you see angst and hostility, I see a bunch of people just having fun with an obvious shit show.

...and can we please knock off the whole "I'm on a pinball message board criticizing people for how they spend their time on it while I spend my time on it criticizing people for spending time on it it!". Do you not have more constructive things to do? C'mon...we're all here talking about pinball. Calling out people's posting habits is silly projection.

Quoted from Cheeks:

But the toxicity is heavily buoyed by the vitriol of the people posting on Pinside.

What you call "vitriol', others might call "holding people accountable for their patterns of bad behavior".

Quoted from Cheeks:

how exactly is all the venom spewing helping anything?

Oy, the hyperbole! "Venom spewing" = discussing the situation.

Quoted from Cheeks:

How can this possibly be an enjoyable endeavor for anyone, especially those who aren't directly impacted? I'll never get it.

Jpop has screwed a lot of people & RM has bragged a lot and insulted an entire industry. Simple schadenfreude, really. It's enjoyable to see bad people fail.

Quoted from Cheeks:

If this really was about people wanting to help out and provide "consequences" for what's gone down, then maybe set up a picket line outside deeproot headquarters, or put up a "JPOP is an asshat and stole my money" billboard down the block from them, or TP Robert's lawn.

That would require living in Texas. Clearly not all of us do.

Anything would have to be more constructive than jerking each other off in an isolated thread on Pinside.

I mean....the internet was pretty much invented for jerking off.

Quoted from Cheeks:

And yet that thread is on fire every day for 7 months? For reasons unclear to me, this topic seems to be self-sustaining.

Cuz we're all pinbuddies, many of us have witnessed and been part of this mess since MG was announced & it's fun to talk to each other? If Jpop had quit pinball & RM had never bragged about how he was going to destroy everyone in the industry, we'd have nothing on this topic to talk about. That's on them.

Quoted from Cheeks:

It's the constant and perpetual beating the negativity into the ground that feels so petty.

From my perspective, the only true negativity I've seen has come from the RAZA buyer side in the form of truly despicable threats toward me and my family....because I dare to question a failed designer and the blowhard that employs him.

#1743 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Where you see angst and hostility, I see a bunch of people just having fun with an obvious shit show.
...and can we please knock off the whole "I'm on a pinball message board criticizing people for how they spend their time on it while I spend my time on it criticizing people for spending time on it it!". Do you not have more constructive things to do? C'mon...we're all here talking about pinball. Calling out people's posting habits is silly projection.

What you call "vitriol', others might call "holding people accountable for their patterns of bad behavior".

Oy, the hyperbole! "Venom spewing" = discussing the situation.

Jpop has screwed a lot of people & RM has bragged a lot and insulted an entire industry. Simple schadenfreude, really. It's enjoyable to see bad people fail.

I mean....the internet was pretty much invented for jerking off.

Cuz we're all pinbuddies, maybe of us have witnessed and been part of this mess since MG was announced & it's fun to talk to each other? If Jpop had quit pinball & RM had never bragged about how he was going to destroy everyone in the industry, we'd have nothing on this topic to talk about. That's on them.

From my perspective, the only true negativity I've seen has come from the RAZA buyer side in the form of truly despicable threats toward me and my family....because I dare to question a failed designer and the blowhard that employs him.

Thanks for keeping people “accountable”. We don’t know what we’d do without you.
Keep talking.
If it makes you feel better, we’ll listen.

#1744 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I mean....the internet was pretty much invented for jerking off.

It's true!

Al Gore himself said so.

#1745 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

I offered to go down there and sign a NDA a LONG time ago if they were willing to show me anything that looked like real games or real production.

dragnet joe friday (resized).jpgdragnet joe friday (resized).jpg
#1746 2 years ago
Quoted from roffels:

I enjoy the back and forth in these threads the same way I appreciate shows like American Greed. Not losing any sleep over it, but I find it hard to look away as well. We're on like season 7 of the jpop saga, and every episode is a cliffhanger. I hope you all get your games.

The final season of Bosch is on Amazon prime now! But it is really final? Check it out.

This DR saga is gonna run for a few more seasons

#1747 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The final season of Bosch is on Amazon prime now! But it is really final? Check it out.
This DR saga is gonna run for a few more seasons

Thanks for the heads up. I love Bosch!

#1748 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

If it makes you feel better, we’ll listen.

Lol, not really.

#1749 2 years ago

I'm still a pre order who hates RM. What disappoints me more are so called savy lawyers/ cpas. No I didn't take anything so I can bash at will. RM is a prick. Take my don't care he's still a scumbag. It's not jpop. But I'm sure he's in it somewhere. As a preorder I'm allowed to say they are all dueche bags.

#1750 2 years ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

I'm still a pre order who hates RM. What disappoints me more are so called savy lawyers/ cpas. No I didn't take anything so I can bash at will. RM is a prick. Take my don't care he's still a scumbag. It's not jpop. But I'm sure he's in it somewhere. As a preorder I'm allowed to say they are all dueche bags.

As a Preorder, I completely respect your opinion.
I personally don’t have any hatred for anybody in pinball really. For me, it’s just business.
If I get my machine…..fantastic. If I don’t, we’ll that’s one in the loss column. Win some, you lose some. No big whoop.

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