I had not seen that at all. Interesting for sure as much as read outside of these 2 Deeproot threads. So I am looking forward to reading whatever is in that update.

Agreed and Kaneda has been promoting the 19th for the Deeproot update on his show. I was just trying to show where PinballManiac40 and others got their information.

BTW. I will disagree with you about TWIP and only a few people going there.

please post this part in the NEXT CGC REMAKE thread

Sorry Ice ! That is what they are doing.. lol

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Ice, I still am completely baffled why you don't just go take the tour of the building that you have a contractual right to instead of counting cars and saying "they're doing something in there!". I mean, I have read your reasoning, you talked to the lawyer, you were satisfied with his statement, ect but it just makes no sense to me and I'm sure almost everyone else. I mean, what a great way to stick it to all the haters and really give this thread some positivity! Its just hard to take you serious when you have every right and simple ability to go take a tour, but instead you're counting cars and saying "just trust me bros".

I get they would probably keep as much undercover as they can (heres the lunchroom, heres the lobby, ok now good day to you sir) and probably make you sign some sort of NDA because they are really cool like that (It would be funny to contrast a tour of DR with a tour of Spooky) but you could at least say I have been there and big things ARE happening. Plus, I'm sure you've got one hell of a BS detector in person, would be nice to hear about that as well.

Maybe just knock on the door.

I read this thread mostly because less noise than the other one. Have no interest in a RAZA, but also zero hate. Those who keep exclaiming about "haters" need to get a life LOL it's just pinball. This has been the most interesting slo-mo trainwreck of a pinball release I've ever seen, and that's the only reason I'm (sorta) keeping up with it. At this point I have NFI whether the games get built... if they do, that's cool, another game to play. If not, no skin off my back.

No hate, just morbid curiosity.

Awesome. Fantastic. Good to know. I’d ask your opinion more about this game on the Raza preorder club thread but like you said, you have no interest in one.

More specifically: no interest in buying one, but I'd definitely look for it on location if it ever gets made. I like Python's art and style from the old coaster trilogy (even if the games themselves were meh) and jpop seems determined to make this a 4th in the series. Also curious to see how this shoots after looking over all the playfield pics. I don't carry high hopes it will be a great game, but also not counting it out completely. Steve Bowden's involvement is the one thing keeping this viable imho..

If RAZA gets fully delivered I highly doubt it will be on location for some ignorants opening their beer on the pinbar, ash and fucking on it. This would be an elusive rare pin only playable on full moon covered in smoke.

Sounds like you have some real gnarly arcades where you live.

Its fun to check in RAZA threads every 6 months and see nothing has changed.

Again I have no vested interest…. but be realistic here. If you can not get the tone/vibe of both threads you must not be able to read. (I am not saying either thread is “right” - just calling a spade a spade!)

Here is one from the other thread:

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Yeah, Ben’s negative comments showing increasing vitriol towards John , and therefore DeepRoot, continue to flow.

That’s in part due to his going to look like an even bigger dolt if they ship a machine.

Didn’t Ben use to work with Jpop at zidware? Falling out??

No, because if they do, he will really be able to dig into it and rip it apart lol. From Arm micro controls to insert descriptions that give no info. Overall, a mess under glass. No, he wont be the dolt, even if it is released. Lets hope it is!

Yes, there’s a story there that I don’t think Ben has fully shared. Just the tidbits about what it was like to work with someone who couldn’t actually get anything done, lots of big ideas and talking and lots of Starbucks. But certainly what happened has fueled his anger.. that along with the rest of what happened at zidware

Whatever he was with Jpop it didn't last long from my recollection. The code red warning signs were all over the place but none of us wanted to doubt John's ability based on his past, at first.

The first weird crazy part was making Ben a character in the artwork on the game. That was a wtf moment. Then one of the RAZA versions was going to include John and Ben coming to your house to assemble the game with you. Lol. All of a sudden Ben was history.

Then Charlie Emery came into the picture and wanted to do a "zombies" game. Jpop took offense to that, especially Ben teaming up with him. Along came AMH instead of a "zombies" game. For a first effort it was a pretty decent game, i got to play one in Austin at Pinballz. The build quality has come a long way for those guys!

Interesting.. I guess I hadn’t known or realized AMH came AFTER the zidware debacle. Yes - the whole coming to your house to build the game was over-the-top .. there were a lotta interesting years there. Probably why DR gets so much attention- it’s about the last pinball drama going on right now. Still a lotta Lewbowski EAs out there but very slowly the games are getting to them and DP is coming around. What else is left?

Browsing through old emails from 2012... I had this interesting reply from John.

-------
Hi...

Well I have been watching the woz stuff to see. My problem is that everyone wants to see it all, but the owners have the right. What to do? I do not want to limit people, but also want to keep it under wraps somewhat.

- NDA signers can visit the studio
- we can post to FB general info
- we can Ustream as we work
- we can setup a google group
- twitter is a good idea

In Bens world he keeps no secrets and shares all content/media/IP. So he thinks its a bit strange my thinking. So it bothers me. Also part of the problem is that I am actively designing and leading the team, so managing web content and other items have to be easy for me.

John
-------

Jpop thought Ben betrayed him. Thought he took his ideas to Charlie Emery to help Charlie compete with him. And Charlie was wanting to do a Zombies game then. Ended up being AMH

Lol. Good one.

Ben's name was in the original game's title!

"Ben Heck's Zombie Adventureland"

AMH was designed and built on a $50,000 budget and just goes to show how big a cluster this really is.

I wasn’t aware of a lot of this.
I met Ben once at one of Terry’s parties at Pinball Life(which were stellar parties by the way) and I thought he was a terrific guy.

Yep in the beginning (2012) it wasn't RAZA it was BHZA
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It's too bad that all of us in both threads don't meet at the Pinball Hall of Fame and talk face to face. I'd bet misunderstandings and hard feelings would be cleared in short order and a lot of agreement would surface after ball one.

I enjoy expensive whisky if anyone wants to join me.

Yeah I remember that. Was a different kind of friendship back then compared to now.

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Yea I remember 8+ years ago chatting on the threads here about RAZA with Iceman and all the guys who were in on it and many who were not. We had disagreements but things were much less toxic, it was definitely a different time on Pinside, I’m not saying it was perfect, but sometimes I miss those days.

Oh my god, has it really been almost 10 years?

Different time not only in pinball - think bigger - this country. Everyone has a platform and they all have to be right. My way or the highway!

No more give and take.

That was when 99% of arguments just led to bikini pictures and thumbs up

Timing is everything.

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I want to apologize for calling Ben a dolt.

Hell yea!

The villain changed from Ben to Neb (Ben backwards, as the alien). The deeproot version still has "Ned" as the villain.

You may all be fascinated with the video I filmed Of ZOMBIE ADVENTURELAND in its infant stages in 2014 at the Pinball Expo...I have cued this up to the footage, although the entire video shows lots of great stuff at that show!

Todd

The infamous empty cabinets!

That was truly the beginning of the end for Zidware. The Zidware/RAZA thread blew up after that fiasco.

well if that isn't worth a laugh from Iceman, I don't know what is.

The good old days! That’s when pinball life was great.

That’s great Todd! The beginning of the end that Expo. Hard to believe it was 6+ years ago already

That was the TBL expo. And then and others like Frolic took off the kid gloves

This is why I love this hobby and want to see this shit to end!

I'm new to the collecting and pinball news in general. My first pinball is the Zep LE. Shortly after my wife said "I want more, is there a AWD?". So googling around, I came cross the AWD concept. Discovered RAZA...hey cool a Texas company, and from my home town of SA to boot.

Then of course I came across all the news and these threads.
As a newbie outsider, it's just sad to see the great concepts, artwork, and the machines that may or may not ever come to fruition. Not only Zid/Raza...but the many others that never became or have passed with very limited release like LoV...<<< Hope this concept is revived, polished and released

I'm an audiophile and like the pinball industry, it is niche and have seen many ups and downs. The forums are very similar, the good, the bad, and sometimes ugly, but we all do share the same passion.

Well as Forest Gump would say "that's all I have to say about that"

--Cheers
Ron

That’s the beauty of pinball. You just never know what may or may not happen

That poster proves how bat shit crazy Jpop is. And why Ben ran away screaming. And why everyone else should have. “Mystery Mechs”, “super goodie bag”, DIY pinball kit, “play the trailer”, “Two Shooters”. Jesus H. Christ, stop the madness.

iceman44
One of these days, we need to grab a bite or a drink. I am the Buc-ee's integrator for the last 20 years for all their low voltage. I expect now that the I-10 construction out your way is finally wrapping that Buc-ee's will likely build that location in 2022.

Yea. Not 6 months.

Blinders. Denial, and hope. dr said NO preorders. They ripped off a whole nother bunch of people.

Was Ben and Jpop the first ones to come up with the “goodie bag”. Now Haggis, Stern and Spooky all do it but they call it “swag”. Lol.
And now it’s called a “membership”! I love it. Great way to raise cash.
They just need to be a little more creative with the swag bag.

Goodie Bags have been in pinball machines for decades.