Not sure if you guys saw .This was in the haters thread .If not enjoy

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Think most are aware of the other thread and content we just choose not to participate as its a different dialog. No need to drag it around. With that said I do appreciate the Iceman's input.

Any other updates

Did anyone get a refund? I am on the waiting list, but have not been contacted.

I have a feeling you won’t be till they start to ship. So when and if that happens, are you willing to pay higher price tag?

Thanks Dave ,I talked to a couple through PMs and explained I’m kinda a joker kidding around mostly just to get laughs .I’m a firm believer in laughter heals .We agreed most, or a very high percentage want DR to succeed no matter what’s posted .Everyone is very lucky to be into this hobby right now theres so much to choose from .

Not sure why I quoted you 4Xs lmao.

I’m willing to roll the dice, but would want to pre-order from the company rather than buy someone’s slot directly.

I second that .Just unfortunate I’m not in position to without knowing the date ,not this year too much going on .I’ll just root from the sidelines no pun .

25 cars 25-50 RAZA workers!

Could be a legitimate work force.. I hope.

You can’t preorder from DR any more. That period is gone and so was the preorder pricing. You have to wait till all the preordered ones are shipped if that happens, then you can buy the leftover at a new higher price from DR.

Still want it?

That option is out the window also.. I am believe Robert said there will be no overflow. Just the 122 pins - the backer outers..

I’m aware the pre-order window closed in December. There is a waiting list maintained by DR for pre-orders. I am on it. As for a higher price, it’s not my primary concern, but where have they said that?

When they said they had 130 orders total (including as credit for Zidware customers) they said they would round up RAZA production to an even 150 units, but the overrun units would be sold for the true price of $8K plus options for the Arcade model and $13K for the Xtra version. Either Deeproot had been offering a discounted price for the pre-orders, or they never had their costs established and realized they were losing money at the initial prices (probably the latter). They later announced they would not be rounding up and would only build the 130 units. When rounding up to 150 they probably figured this would give them quantity pricing on 150 sets of the unique components for RAZA. When they found out that even 150 is a very small quantity and parts costs would be no better for 150 than for 130, they had no reason to make more than the 130. (So don't count on any RAZA-specific spares being available if you break something.) Most Pinsiders expect people waiting on the list (for units available as a result of refunds issued) to be charged the "true" pricing Deeproot announced after pre-ordering had closed. It does not look like many (if any at all) people have requested refunds, so only a very few people on the waiting list will be informed of the higher cost. If those people pass, then Deeproot will just move on down the list.

As littlecammi said, Im not talking about the initial roundup to 150 here. Strictly the preordered spots that are cancelled/refunded will be passed on to the ones on the waitlist and they will pay the new higher price (assuming DR will deliver RAZA).

Do you really think they will let the waitlist peeps to buy a game which they finally figured out they are losing money on each unit built? Well, don't count on it. lol.

I think at some point the drama will be over, pinballs will be built or refunds will happen. No doubt they lose money on the first machine made.

I guess we will see what the July update looks like soon enough.

I have to imagine they build a few extra and charge a big price because that is what it actually cost. Will someone buy them, these days with the crazy money pinballs are getting - yes - someone will buy them. The other forum will lite on fire when they charge $12K for the handful available too.

And I will care as much as I do now. lol

Why would they have a list if it serves no purpose?

I think there is a just a miss communication. They noted they Do have a list and would contact those on the list at the end of the Raza run if there are any cancelations. May update. Know you have an open invite to play mine when it arrives.

I am going to leave mine in the box and play yelobird’s raza.
I’ll play it until that shooter lane looks like a zombie’s ass.

So Robert Mueller’s a healer now?

When I get a PRO number, hell yeah.

The hater thread is gonna twist off when these games start rolling out!

They live for the failure of DR

Let it drama build up. They are out of ammo so it’s attacking us “stupid” redneck buyers now. Lol

Looking forward to the next update. Hopefully it is informative..

Always a class act. Appreciate it!

To Pinbar or not to Pinbar? That's the question. What is the latest that you heard?

I think they are bringing it on Raza and I wish they wouldn’t but at this point with all the other parts delays I guess why not?

Again, my friend who works on my games now has played it extensively and says it’s really good!

So either way it should be fine.

That is pure speculation. RM did not say that. Only additional RAZA world habe been sold at higher price. The waiting list is not for additional machines anymore but for abandoned preorder spots. It would be odd to punish those who get into a spot someone else did hold @normal price.

What ya saying is pure speculation in itself. Sure, believe that.

Huh?

How in the world is anyone who asks to be put on a waiting list (because they did not order within the time originally allotted) being punished by having to pay a higher price?

Just e-mail Deeproot and ask.? My understanding is #0-122 being produced between the Arcade and Extra editions. The BUY in window has expired or "sold out".

Not sure of any surplus after the 122 but I am not Deeproot.

Has anyone backed out/cashed out there original place? I have not heard of one FUD seller yet.

Happy to hear that. Any word on how far along game 2 is?

I’m sure it has been covered but didn’t DR say they were going to do a small overrun over the total number of pre ordered games?

I think game 2 has been ready to go. With the parts and other delays maybe they change up the order of titles?

Stern has their own supply chain issues and they want parts first before everyone else and have the leverage. DR has none, at the back of the line. But the supply chain all over the world is getting better daily

My point was that if DR is charging more for RAZA to the people who are on a wait list, that is not "punishment." People had the chance to get in during the window that DR indicated, so those who didn't order at that time have no right to expect that they would get the same price by being put on a wait list.

No longer as noted on the last update posted.

RM addressed this in the beginning, pre-order people took the risk and extra units would pay the higher cost for the machine. I think the pre-order people paid a guesstimate of a price and the later price for extra units (if any) will be paying a market price for the very few extra units made.

I will say that I have emailed Robert and Wilhelm a few a times recently and they got back with me immediately, both were very friendly to chat with and it sounded like all systems were a go.

Deeproot offer refunds bc of breaking all timelines. Bc of that already sold spots get vacant. A new buyer steps in to fill the gap. As a thank you deeproot burns an extra premium on his ass. That is just odd/unimaginable. and a total different story than someone who buys an extra machine deeproot deliberately built without an "original" buyer.

Willing to accept a 3 digit bet on that (if anyone demanded a refund).

Kind of like JJP did with GnR?

I don't believe Robert and DR employees came this far and spent so much money with all that talent to just walk away now or any time soon.

After all this time and effort on the front end it's time to reap some of the rewards on the back end.

When they can get the production operation up and running and the process down, supply chain etc, Spooky, AP and JJP did it, then maybe they can start actually building some momentum by releasing these pins they have been working on for years now at a fairly fast pace.

If they can just get to cash flow neutral and stop the bleeding then they can start building a foundation for the longer term.

Will they ever recoup all those sunk costs? I doubt it but who knows. Anything is possible. But it doesn't really matter in the short term.

Or it just might simply be like the Billy Beane quote in Moneyball:

"I like Geronimo. The guy's an athlete. Big, fast, talented. Clean cut. Good face. Good jaw."

"But can he hit?"

“He’s got a beautiful swing. The ball explodes off his bat. He throws the club head at the ball and when he connects he drives it.”

“If he’s a good hitter, why doesn’t he hit good?”

Can’t wait for the next update! I got a good feeling.
You can do it Robert Mueller!
Me and Yelobird will road trip down to Texas and bring some Portillos and brews for all your employees.

Indeed a crippling wait. Yesterday my couisin asked to visit from a bit farer away to play AIQLE. Answered maybe wait for RAZA-table.
He said „what is a RAZA-table?“. A mix of dreams hopes and imagination on a ride from update to update the holy grail of pinball.

Rotfl. The buyers are feeding the employees now. Employees that aren’t making anything.

Hey everybody, it’s........negative guy.
Just gotta love the negative guy. They’re so fun to hang out with. Great for parties.
Just wind them up and let them ramble on. Lol.

tbh I'd rather be hanging with the realistic negative guy than the hopelessly optimistic guy

Luckily there are Plenty in the other thread for you to hang out with! Have fun.

I'd still hang out with you tho

Always welcome.