(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

11 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 3,298 posts
  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 14 days ago by jeffspinballpalace
  • Topic is favorited by 89 Pinsiders

You

Topic poll

“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

936C6FE8-1714-4BCB-AFE7-6739393895C8.jpeg
pasted_image (resized).png
proxy-image.gif
Screenshot_20210916-202744_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20210918-073355_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg
you-suck-at-the-internet-20050946 (resized).png
zdeeproot (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
20210913_134239 (resized).jpg
56BB222B-9578-4793-8975-95727AD0EB2D.gif
BD7625E7-40E3-403A-84E4-B263F7215220.gif
84709FE1-FEA0-4A6D-9752-F716DA38680A (resized).jpeg
AAF98977-33FC-4FF4-AC7A-332A4153F493.gif
s6hdwntp7a701 (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
8AF1E999-E259-4D4B-BC47-08F72E95903D (resized).jpeg

Topic index (key posts)

5 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

There are 3,298 posts in this topic. You are on page 23 of 66.
#1101 7 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

The thread is not about Deeproot anymore. It's a shit slinging festival.

Ben Heck seems to be ringmaster

-1
#1102 7 months ago

The other thread is crazy, so much hate for people who have no interest in DR.

10
#1103 7 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Yeah, I'm cool waiting a while. If it happens, JACKPOT. If it doesn't... like I've said before, nothing changes.

I hope you and all the others that stuck it out hit the JACKPOT !

LTG : )

#1104 7 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

I hope you and all the others that stuck it out hit the JACKPOT !
LTG : )

Hey Lloyd, there was another time that "pigs did fly". You never know.

#1105 7 months ago

I hope pigs fly this time - June was my guess in the beginning

#1106 7 months ago

Perfect storm...games announced to build, Covid screwing up parts ect . Bought a couch and the color I wanted wasnt available, if I wanted that color late September to October before it would be ready.
I know your games will come, hang in there . And congratulations for having a great pin with a murky history . Pretty cool actually

#1107 7 months ago
Quoted from transprtr4u:

Perfect storm...games announced to build, Covid screwing up parts ect . Bought a couch and the color I wanted wasnt available, if I wanted that color late September to October before it would be ready.
I know your games will come, hang in there . And congratulations for having a great pin with a murky history . Pretty cool actually

Optimism is nice to hear

#1108 7 months ago

Just bought an iPad yesterday and won’t be delivered until the end of June.

-2
#1109 7 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

Just bought an iPad yesterday and won’t be delivered until the end of June.

But Deeproot is shit according to the other forum...nothing relates to them

#1110 6 months ago

Just watched the Stev Bowden gameplay and rules video on DR website . Man does it look like a fun game to play.
Fingers and toes crossed. I hope this happens. This will be such a fun game. Let’s get er done!!!
Good Luck to Deep Root!

#1111 6 months ago

They owe us an update since it's been 6 weeks. If they don't get going I'm pulling my plug. The least they can do is be transparent. I certainly understand why Ben has a bitter taste and I don't blame him. Enough of supply chain garbage. When they did the pre order they should have had parts. Just getting frustrated with the bs.

#1112 6 months ago

I agree that they owe us an update but I expect we may not get one till next week. When I placed my order I expected a delay and told myself that June might be a more realistic shipping goal. No idea if that is realistic anymore but we will find out in the next update.

#1113 6 months ago
Quoted from UnholySpectacle:

I agree that they owe us an update but I expect we may not get one till next week. When I placed my order I expected a delay and told myself that June might be a more realistic shipping goal. No idea if that is realistic anymore but we will find out in the next update.

Agreed but since this machine has had the 10 plagues my optimism and patients are beginning to wane. Don't blow smoke up my ass. The pinball manufacturing should have been locked down well before doing pre orders. So should the xtra toppers. Not trying to go negative but if they can't run a manufacturing operation get someone who can.

#1114 6 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

Agreed but since this machine has had the 10 plagues my optimism and patients are beginning to wane. Don't blow smoke up my ass. The pinball manufacturing should have been locked down well before doing pre orders. So should the xtra toppers. Not trying to go negative but if they can't run a manufacturing operation get someone who can.

Well they posted their updates as promised so I‘m confident they‘ll stick to that.

#1115 6 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Well they posted their updates as promised so I‘m confident they‘ll stick to that.

Where. I have nothing in my email. Give a source please. I'm getting tired of cat and mouse just fucking deliver or fail and give us our money back.

#1116 6 months ago

As long as my wife can get tampoons they can get parts!!!

#1117 6 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

Where. I have nothing in my email. Give a source please. I'm getting tired of cat and mouse just fucking deliver or fail and give us our money back.

Please read what I wrote again.

And since you know that their NEXT update is supposed to follow mid May I assume you allready have read their LAST update.

If you don't get them in your mail, yes just tell'em.

#1118 6 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

They owe us an update since it's been 6 weeks. If they don't get going I'm pulling my plug. The least they can do is be transparent. I certainly understand why Ben has a bitter taste and I don't blame him. Enough of supply chain garbage. When they did the pre order they should have had parts. Just getting frustrated with the bs.

Why start freaking out just before they're meant to give an update? Makes no sense. Just wait for the mid-May update and then asses. All of the stuff you're bringing up they've already addressed in the last update.

#1119 6 months ago
Quoted from NoMonkey:

Why start freaking out just before they're meant to give an update? Makes no sense. Just wait for the mid-May update and then asses. All of the stuff you're bringing up they've already addressed in the last update.

RM has been communicating in his stated time frames, he didn’t say the 15th exactly.

You will get an update some time and you can decide then - I agree why freak out now.

I think people would agree the delays are troublesome and Deeproot over promised here. But most people would say games should come eventually or you would be refunded.

#1120 6 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Only 150 America's Most Haunted were made, and they are frequently bought and sold for under $5k.

I’ve wondered if the early Spooky pins will garner more respect down the road as Spooky continues to grow. I’ve never played AMH but own a RZ and really like it. It’s not perfect but it has its own quirky charm and is better than people give it credit for. By way of example, I sold my Wonka but kept my RZ.

#1121 6 months ago
Quoted from Krupps4:

I’ve wondered if the early Spooky pins will garner more respect down the road as Spooky continues to grow. I’ve never played AMH but own a RZ and really like it. It’s not perfect but it has its own quirky charm and is better than people give it credit for. By way of example, I sold my Wonka but kept my RZ.

Think RZ just got a bad rap early when they showed it with rough code and so many glitches. Rather fun game for my taste. AMH I personally thought was ok at best no interest to own.

#1122 6 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Think RZ just got a bad rap early when they showed it with rough code and so many glitches.

I’ve always thought it suffered a bit from group think. Anyway, I think most RZ’s have now found owners that appreciate it.

#1123 6 months ago
Quoted from Krupps4:

I’ve always thought it suffered a bit from group think. Anyway, I think most RZ’s have now found owners that appreciate it.

We have one on location here, and it's always down for one reason or another. Mostly minor stuff, but it adds up. Don't think the early Spookys are particularly robust machines.

#1124 6 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

We have one on location here, and it's always down for one reason or another. Mostly minor stuff, but it adds up. Don't think the early Spookys are particularly robust machines.

My RZ has been really reliable. I’ve had a chipped plastic but that’s about it in the last few years.

I have a place in WY and go through Sioux Falls all the time. I should stop in your location. What’s the location?

#1125 6 months ago

I’m just looking for an update and some transparency by the end of the month.
I’m in for the long haul. It’s worth the risk to have the game for me.
Honesty and transparency and hitting expectations since the last update will go a long way.

#1126 6 months ago
Quoted from Krupps4:

My RZ has been really reliable. I’ve had a chipped plastic but that’s about it in the last few years.
I have a place in WY and go through Sioux Falls all the time. I should stop in your location. What’s the location?

The RZ is at The Bonus Round bar in downtown Sioux Falls.

#1128 6 months ago

Come on man - you were always the big cheerleader....its OK some notice will come

#1129 6 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Come on man - you were always the big cheerleader....its OK some notice will come

It’s all good man! Pinball has always been a seasonal hobby for me...once the weather breaks pinball goes on the back burner until fall. Currently I’m rebuilding the original Holley carburetor on my 1970 Plymouth road runner that I’ve owned since 1997 and should have everything back up and running before Memorial Day. I’m just patiently waiting in regards to deeproot. Me personally, I wouldn’t mind at all if RAZA didn’t ship until this fall or winter, but for those who also ordered, I hope they come sooner as I know many are anxiously waiting.

I just logged back in on Pinside yesterday for the first time since Pinside had their big meltdown a month or so ago. The “sewer” deeproot thread is currently showing I have 877 unread posts since I last logged in! What in the hell could they possibly be talking about??? Nothing has happened! The May update hasn’t even happened yet! And they say we’re the crazy ones!!!

#1130 6 months ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

It’s all good man! Pinball has always been a seasonal hobby for me...once the weather breaks pinball goes on the back burner until fall. Currently I’m rebuilding the original Holley carburetor on my 1970 Plymouth road runner that I’ve owned since 1997 and should have everything back up and running before Memorial Day. I’m just patiently waiting in regards to deeproot. Me personally, I wouldn’t mind at all if RAZA didn’t ship until this fall or winter, but for those who also ordered, I hope they come sooner as I know many are anxiously waiting.
I just logged back in on Pinside yesterday for the first time since Pinside had their big meltdown a month or so ago. The “sewer” deeproot thread is currently showing I have 877 unread posts since I last logged in! What in the hell could they possibly be talking about??? Nothing has happened! The May update hasn’t even happened yet! And they say we’re the crazy ones!!!

Good for you - A Roadrunner super cool. Have fun....

I am fine with delays I kind of thought it would be summer before there would be any real news.

#1131 6 months ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Nothing has happened! The May update hasn’t even happened

Correct on both counts.

#1132 6 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Good for you - A Roadrunner super cool. Have fun....
I am fine with delays I kind of thought it would be summer before there would be any real news.

Thank you...
3E9038F8-66D1-4C5C-8691-BE3752EE39A1 (resized).jpeg
Just thought I’d share a quick photo but don’t want to derail the thread so back on track. I am disappointed RAZA didn’t ship when deeproot originally said while they were taking orders...they honestly should have known better...to not even have the UL certification, parts in hand, manufacturing processes in place, etc. and to set a shipping date was pretty bad. That being said, I’m still in and still believe they can deliver something that other manufacturers will be jealous of and say to themselves, “why didn’t we think of that a long time ago...damn!” The skeptics knock the Pinbar, however, don’t they see the tremendous potential in it? I believe its impact is being seriously underestimated. It really could be a game changer and become a standard feature on all pinball machines from all manufacturers one day. Keeping the faith that deeproot can pull this off!

#1133 6 months ago

Dear RAZA Customer:

First, I want to wish the amazing Mr. Bowden a very happy birthday. I'm honored he has decided to spend the occasion at work writing up more cool tips for his FunwithBonus.com website. It was nice to catch up with him this morning about RAZA.

While it has been six weeks since our last update, we wish there was more to update on. We are dealing with the same issues most other small and large businesses are. That is, still struggling with some vendors over supply chain and deliveries, unable to hire staff because of labor shortages, and dealing with inflationary increases in parts since we have not been able to execute quick enough. We come in every day and are chipping away at the diminishing obstacles to shipping our first RAZAs.

We want to keep communication open. However, it seems sometimes that these periodic updates don't convey the progress that is happening, nor does it solve the real goal of delivering games. At this point we do not expect to send another mass update about RAZA until after the July 4th weekend.

In the mean time, if some RAZA customers wish to rescind their contracts and request their payments back, we will offer those on a first-come, first serve basis starting June 1, 2021. You can reply to this email or use our online contact form on our website. Please include your name, order number, and a request to rescind the RAZA Purchase Contract. Once accepted, your request is irrevocable.

For those waiting on the wait list, please again do not contact us to check on if you have a machine or not. We will do our best to fill as many requests as we can from the rescinded machines, in order on the wait list, at the end of the RAZA run. Since the list has grown from the last mass email, we cannot guarantee to be able to accommodate everyone.

Best!

-Robert J. Mueller, Principal
deeproot Pinball

-2
#1134 6 months ago

Continuation of my previous post...

Or...deeproot fades away along with all that potential. Oh the joy that would bring Mr. Heckendorn...I just hope he personally offers jobs to and personally employs all those in deeproot that would lose their jobs, with the exception of Robert and JPop of course!

And I also see nothing will change, “derp root cult dude” already gave me a downvote on my earlier post! I would honestly miss it if he ever stopped as it now brings a smile!

-1
#1135 6 months ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Or...deeproot fades away along with all that potential. Oh the joy that would bring Mr. Heckendorn...I just hope he personally offers jobs to and personally employs all those in deeproot that would lose their jobs, with the exception of Robert and JPop of course!
And I also see nothing will change, “derp root cult dude” already gave me a downvote on my earlier post! I would honestly miss it if he ever stopped as it now brings a smile!

The cult is the ones continuously bashing a company that has people with families depending on an income, hoping they will fail.

20210413_145312 (resized).jpg
-3
#1136 6 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

The cult is the ones continuously bashing a company that has people with families depending on an income, hoping they will fail. [quoted image]

100% correct.

-4
#1137 6 months ago

Satisfied with the May update from deeproot. It’s what I anticipated, no surprises. Let’s see what the July update brings!

30
#1138 6 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

The cult is the ones continuously bashing a company that has people with families depending on an income, hoping they will fail. [quoted image]

Believe as you wish but any collateral damage rests 100% with Deeproot.

#1139 6 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Believe as you wish but any collateral damage rests 100% with Deeproot.

I agree with you Kim, however, wishing a company fails and getting personal satisfaction or enjoyment out of that is an entirely different conversation.

10
#1140 6 months ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Satisfied with the May update from deeproot.

29
#1141 6 months ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

I agree with you Kim, however, wishing a company fails and getting personal satisfaction or enjoyment out of that is an entirely different conversation.

I disagree. Are you implying I should root for every company to succeed because it employs people? I have no reason to root for many companies whose philosophies I don’t agree with, or are run by a holes, employ a holes, etc... regardless of if they employ people.

But besides that fact, just because the thread is generally very negative does not mean that many people are actively rooting for a company to fail. It’s just a conversation based on some facts and some speculation.. which here in May is still all we can expect till July now.

But for those that do want DR to fail, that’s on Robert for displaying only ego and being a abysmal manager of a company.

#1142 6 months ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

I disagree. Are you implying I should root for every company to succeed because it employs people? I have no reason to root for many companies whose philosophies I don’t agree with, or are run by a holes, employ a holes, etc... regardless of if they employ people.
But besides that fact, just because the thread is generally very negative does not mean that many people are actively rooting for a company to fail. It’s just a conversation based on some facts and some speculation.. which here in May is still all we can expect till July now.
But for those that do want DR to fail, that’s on Robert for displaying only ego and being a abysmal manager of a company.

No, you don’t need to root for them. I am just saying that some HOPE and WANT deeproot to fail and will get their rocks off in seeing that happen...very sad.

#1144 6 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Believe as you wish but any collateral damage rests 100% with Deeproot.

and those who enabled them

#1145 6 months ago

Big upvote on the Plymouth Road Runner ! Really Nice.

14
#1146 6 months ago

Hard not to be a realist and agree with the other forum as far as the update. I would say the update was as expected....

But, I kind of agree it seems like they would prefer to not even build RAZA. If they wanted to not build it though they could just refund everyone (if they have the money) say sorry / goodbye. Rather than play this cat and mouse game, unless there is some dream of patents from a game or recovering what was spent but that seems impossible.

Seems like such a strange way of doing things. I cannot imagine what they do day to day - wait for UPS to drop packages off? I mean really if they were serious they would have found a way to get this out the door and they would be moving on to the next thing just to salvage a reputation (I know haters - hate that comment, you can hate DR).

No one faults delays for unforeseen things but this is hardly unforeseen now.

A person should think hard if they want to ride this ride until the end or get off while you can.

I think this is what it must be like to be looking at the BBB remakes or even a Big Lebowski hoping it finally gets done. Don't rip on my examples and saying it is not the same - just saying those took years both were risks, one completed (BBB) one group still waiting.

I doubt people were offered to get off those rides....

Contacting the small potential buyers group personally would not be hard, seems like they don't want to. An email wrote to everyone is not personal contact either.

#1147 6 months ago

The last post RM was saying it was the U/L certification. This time not even a mention of it. But now blaming a labor shortage. But what about the U/L cert. No update on that. This is getting frustrating.

17
#1148 6 months ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

No, you don’t need to root for them. I am just saying that some HOPE and WANT deeproot to fail and will get their rocks off in seeing that happen...very sad.

...Becuase of Robert's actions from the beginning though, as well as his decision to hire, listen to, and continue to employ Jpop. It's not like they are blindly hoping it will fail. Even if he had kept Jpop but been humble from the beginning, or at least changed his tune at some point when realization struck that this wasn't so easy after all, it would be different. People that want it to fail, want it to fail to teach a rich egomaniac a lesson. I don't think that's all that sad, or unreasonable. (Probably still won't see a lesson in it, even if DR does fail though) It's sad for all the employees that took a chance on the company and left other good jobs for pinball or animation, if they lose those jobs because of Robert. But you can't hang that on people that hate DR because of Robert. But that's just my opinion.

I think Robert said enough in the update for people to read between the lines with a good amount of confidence. It IS totally bizarre that they don't seem to want to build this game, and of course that's led to much of the speculation. But this latest "update" (not much of an update) -- not only is he offering refunds now but he's not going to contact the wait/wantlist people until after all the games are built to pick up any extras.. why wouldn't you just move deposits on to the next people that want it??? On top of that, the weird "first come first serve", seems to feed a sense of FOMO that you might not even get your deposit back if you wait too long? What else is that supposed to mean?

They haven't hired anyone because of a labor shortage? Last time I checked a lot of people were out of work because of the pandemic??

I think it's too early to say that DR is sunk overall, but the desire to not build RAZA sure seems to be there - for whatever reason.

#1149 6 months ago

This update says basically there is no update and, beside of the tone with « happy birthday » mention, it feels like RM is frustrated as well and is hiding things regarding probably manufacturing problems.
They are really acting like they no longer have trust on Raza and no longer root (no joke) for their first pin and maybe are already thinking of the 2nd title hoping the boat will still be afloat...
Seriously, i don’t think they could survive to a big fail regarding their first pin, they HAVE to make it right...

#1150 6 months ago
Quoted from noitbe1:This update says basically there is no update and, beside of the tone with « happy birthday » mention, it feels like RM is frustrated as well and is hiding things regarding probably manufacturing problems.
They are really acting like they no longer trust on their Raza and no longer root (no joke) for their first pin and maybe are already thinking of the 2nd title hoping the boat will be still be afloat...
Seriously, i don’t think they could survive to a big fail regarding their first pin, they HAVE to make it right...

They are out of $$. Id have my calendar set for june 1, to get that refund.

There are 3,298 posts in this topic. You are on page 23 of 66.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside