I had no idea that these giant lead times for certain parts were happening.
Is this strictly because of Covid?
I had no idea that these giant lead times for certain parts were happening.
Is this strictly because of Covid?
Quoted from DakotaMike:Well, it feels like a long wait since deeproot started. And I keep expecting them to be almost ready to ship, and then months more go by. So it feels like a long wait to me.
Also, I firmly believe that RAZA wasn't supposed to ship with the Pinbar, and instead the Pinbar would've debuted on a subsequent game. I think RM decided to add it once the pandemic hit. It's the only way that I can explain the huge delay between last March's TPF "5 days" event and last Fall's failed event.
You are making up information. Who cares what you “think”? There’s fact and fiction.
Quoted from Scandell:You are making up information. Who cares what you “think”? There’s fact and fiction.
Yikes! Who bit your butt?!
Quoted from Fulltilt:There are 4 more days... Yeah.
There should be an update this week. If not I'm pissed.
Quoted from Stemmy:There should be an update this week. If not I'm pissed.
The update hopefully has a few pics to chew on...
Quoted from frankmac:The update hopefully has a few pics to chew on...
I'm gonna hold off commenting until after the update. Better be a real fucking update!
Quoted from Yelobird:Seems like a fair estimate and acceptable to me. On the long wait aspect I must have different expectations then others. I personally don't judge a wait by speculation or promotion but more so by Order date. Which in this case (to me) is still rather low and in the norm by my book. Waited 12 months for POTCCE, 18 months for WOZ, waited 3 years for BBB, waited Years for TBL all from deposit order so if 3 months is the norm I am fine with that especially with the unusual world events. But thats just me. Also looks like with deposit GnR fans will be in for a 12 plus month wait also so not much has changed other then our expectations.
I think people need to keep perspective here, a huge resolution update is unlikely. I think Yelobird’s post should help people keep in mind that delays are not uncommon.
Keep the faith...
Quoted from wamonkey:I think people need to keep perspective here, a huge resolution update is unlikely. I think Yelobird’s post should help people keep in mind that delays are not uncommon.
Keep the faith...
I don’t mind waiting as long as the line of communication is open.. unfortunately Yelobird is not Deeproot.. I understand where he is coming from but Deeproot should keep us updated as best as they can. What do they have to lose!
Hopefully some good news soon.
Quoted from frankmac:I don’t mind waiting as long as the line of communication is open.. unfortunately Yelobird is not Deeproot.. I understand where he is coming from but Deeproot should keep us updated as best as they can. What do they have to lose!
Hopefully some good news soon.
Fair enough though we did invest in a product not a company so they technically don't owe us much more then the product updates we have been given. Agreed, I am not Deeproot nor do I speak for them but I do try to manage my expectations according to what I signed on for. Some (not here) feel they are Owed facility updates, photo status, or what they are having for lunch. I am fine simply knowing the company is still forging ahead step by step to build the product we ordered. If this becomes a 7 month no update (kind of like the current GnR October orders) then I will begin to question.
Anxiously awaiting the update. There were quite some bummers in the past. Victim of the February update.
Quoted from Makakka:Anxiously awaiting the update. There were quite some bummers in the past.
Well clearly games are not ready for shipping, that's a given. It would be broadcast everywhere by now.
I'm just hoping it'll have a little more detail that previous updates.
I can wait. Hell I've been in it since my first payment in 2012! What's another few months. I'd just like to "really" know where things stand.
Quoted from Fulltilt:Well clearly games are not ready for shipping, that's a given. It would be broadcast everywhere by now.
I'm just hoping it'll have a little more detail that previous updates.
I can wait. Hell I've been in it since my first payment in 2012! What's another few months. I'd just like to "really" know where things stand.
I can’t imagine being in on a machine since 2012. That’s................amazing. I really hope you get that Raza. I’m excited. Can’t wait to get this machine.
The artwork on this game just blows me a way. Gameplay looks like a ton of fun. Looks like a classic Williams with new touches.
Quoted from Yelobird:I do try to manage my expectations
I could barely work the day of the reveal 9/21/2020 finished early bc I was too excited. The cancellation later took the wind out of me got lightly sick the following days bc of stress and frustration also anger bc my productivity got lowered for nothing/ a slew of facebook nonsense.
Expectations are not that high this time but still...is RM even delivering an update today as promised.
Quoted from PinballBuzz:Several of you are right on different points. There are not many manufacturers and suppliers in the pinball industry over in China. We were lucky and ordered last year and our shipment just arrived last week. Customs cut all the bags in their inspection and now we are sorting out thousands of inserts. Wood and Metal contractors are behind and yes the costs went up for material and shipping. We are trying to manufacture most of the pinball parts in our own country.
[quoted image]
The good news about that is nobody will be buying your game
Quoted from Haymaker:The good news about that is nobody will be buying your game
Thanks for your stupid comments and ruining it once again for the nice people: Your mother must be proud.
Lets see something that you have done in pinball worth while showing.
40 per orders so far, we must be doing something right.
Look to This Week in Pinball for more updates.
Quoted from PinballBuzz:Lets see something that you have done in pinball worth while showing.
Got moderated because of my return comments to that pinsider... if there is a pot to stir he's the stick to stir it!
When there is no pot he will do it anyway
Quoted from PinballBuzz:Lets see something that you have done in pinball worth while showing.
Not disgracing myself by screwing over one of the most beloved personalities in the hobby.
Quoted from Haymaker:Not disgracing myself by screwing over one of the most beloved personalities in the hobby.
Always refreshing to see someone who isn't afraid to showcase his love and admiration for JPOP. Congrats.
Now, can we get back to focusing on our RAZA pre-orders?
Quoted from mrbillishere:Always refreshing to see someone who isn't afraid to showcase his love and admiration for JPOP. Congrats.
wat?
Quoted from mrbillishere:Now, can we get back to focusing on our RAZA pre-orders?
Yes
So the update is out - not surprising - my original estimation of June is not looking too far off track (probably will be later than that).
Personally, I don't think they need to offer discounts if they do not meet that deadline but I welcome it of course. I think they should just offer people a chance to get out of their pre-order if they want to get their money back so there is no ill will. It would also be smart of them to only build one model if the delays and parts are becoming too much of an issue - simplify the process and build only one model (of course for the most part it is just the cabinet that is different). I didn't want to stick my neck out beyond the arcade edition (since it was a gamble) but if they offer a deal on the full RAZA to make one machine it would be hard to pass up on.
As many of us have said it was a roll of the dice. I think this will get built eventually it will be boutique for sure. Do I have concerns - sure - but so far it is just a deposit and I think if it never happens it was just a smaller bet on something I wanted. I am still rooting for you Deeproot....
Dear RAZA Customer:
We hope all is well. As promised before we want to provide a timely update about where things are now...
The latest we have from the lab is that the UL for the U.S.A. and Canada reports are being prepared. We have passed the SAA requirements and 95% of the CE requirements. While product safety have passed, the emissions and interference tests metrics for a few of the CE countries require additional modifications. We are still being told it will take 4-5 weeks for the final CE certification reports after our fixes pass the tests. The UL reports should be herein in the next few weeks which allow us to move forward on those machines.
We continue to appreciate many of our vendors being able to timely get us quality parts to spec. Unfortunately some vendors are still having issues with global and regional supply chain disruptions. We thank you again for your patience. Despite the past, we don't want to be known as the company that customers can rely on for delays. Our entire team is very cognizant of that and are working hard to be accountable for lead and time lines. As we are coming up on five months now since we opened up orders, when our teams were confident they could delivery by February to March, we definitely are frustrated at our inability to follow through and overcome internal and external obstacles. While some things are outside of our control, we understand the importance of delivering on the promises made. As such, it now doesn't make any sense to make more RAZA machines than orders.
With current lead times on the certifications and parts, there will not be any significant updates in the next 6 weeks. Our goal is to update in mid May and at that time (if games are not imminently ready to start shipping) to offer some financial relief for the delays in the form of a return of store credit, discount of the RAZA purchase, or allow customers to rescind RAZA purchases for a refund with nominal interest.
To those on this mail list that are not RAZA customers but are waiting for surplus machines, we are so sorry that there will no longer be surplus machines. However, if some RAZA customers decide to rescind their contracts, we will offer those first-come, first serve machines to the list for the original prices. Please do not contact us about this yet. We will only be able to provide an idea of availability closer to end of May once purchasers decide if they want to rescind their purchase.
Best!
-Robert J. Mueller, Principal
deeproot Pinball
Quoted from mrbillishere:Always refreshing to see someone who isn't afraid to showcase his love and admiration for JPOP. Congrats.
I believe in this context JPop is the screw-er and not the screw-ee.
Quoted from mrbillishere:Now, can we get back to focusing on our RAZA pre-orders?
By all means, don't let us interfere with that!
d (resized).pngGood there will be no surplus machines. Only „true“ Jpop fans who couldn’t help but order asap (like me) plus anyone else supporting deeproot with a preorder should get RAZA firsthanded.
Reason might be part/supply issues but it might be another reason.
RM probably was a bit salty about the other thread that’s why he came up with it. Now he does not care anymore.
Also I think he just wants to be done with RAZA building he can’t take anymore psychologically just get it out the door and move on. In 2019 he said how annoying it was still being stuck on RAZA.
Quoted from Makakka:Only „true“ Jpop fans who couldn’t help but order asap (like me)
I was a "true" jpop fan who sent the man $6500 and got nothing except to be listed in his bankruptcy papers.
From one "true" fan to another, I hope it works out better for you this time.
The UL certificate, does this apply to all games? So do companies like stern apply for each game model built?
Quoted from transprtr4u:The UL certificate, does this apply to all games? So do companies like stern apply for each game model built?
My guess is it doesn't apply game to game but more likely from system to system. For example when Stern changed from Whitestar to the SAM board and then to the Spike system. Again that's just a guess and I don't really know.
Quoted from Mr68:My guess is it doesn't apply game to game but more likely from system to system. For example when Stern changed from Whitestar to the SAM board and then to the Spike system. Again that's just a guess and I don't really know.
I believe it is game to game, but Stern has the process locked down and designs their platform around the test. For example, people say that the reason why the on/off switch moved from the cabinet to the backbox was cost saving. This is somewhat true, but not for the reason some might think (three feet of wire). It's actually because of these types of certifications. It's just easier to put the line in, the power switch, and the power supplies all into the metal backbox of a modern Stern and pass all UL/CE/FCC certifications. George Gomez specifically cites this reason
Quoted from transprtr4u:The UL certificate, does this apply to all games? So do companies like stern apply for each game model built?
They can do it for all games, but the magic is... you can get variants/updates approved without going through a full test run depending on the changes. So the key is to design a platform/package that works... get it approved... then each time go in and say "its just a variant of X which you already verified passed everything and this variant won't impact any of the outcomes"... or get approvals where only the changes must be scrutinized vs going through a whole new test run.
When you start over or from scratch.. you start from zero and need to run the full gambit.
I am glad Robert sent out a follow up email..
I feel like Muller will complete RAZA 110% to the end of the 150-160.. That is great for the haters..
Quoted from frankmac:I am glad Robert sent out a follow up email..
I feel like Muller will complete RAZA 110% to the end of the 150-160.. That is great for the haters..
What is the follow up email?
Quoted from wamonkey:Keep the faith...
That's a pretty good summary of this thread.
Quoted from RobT:That's a pretty good summary of this thread.
Yeah, it’s a bit more realistic then the vendetta assumption hate train of wisdom. Lol. Wonder what everyone is going to do with their time when this game ships? Should be interesting.
Quoted from Yelobird:Yeah, it’s a bit more realistic then the vendetta assumption hate train of wisdom. Lol. Wonder what everyone is going to do with their time when this game ships? Should be interesting.
I’m sorry though the update is very bleak. Very doubtful that they spin up production.
Quoted from hank527:I’m sorry though the update is very bleak. Very doubtful that they spin up production.
It was an update how is that bleak? Offering a refund for those not willing to wait seems pretty stand up to me but I guess it depends on how hard you want to spin it. When they stop talking (DR not the posse) I will question.
Quoted from Yelobird:It was an update how is that bleak? Offering a refund for those not willing to wait seems pretty stand up to me but I guess it depends on how hard you want to spin it. When they stop talking (DR not the posse) I will question.
A person would have to wait until after the May update to ask for the refund, so about six more weeks then a refund is possible. That may be only talk too but who knows.
I think RAZA was a gamble and if it gets built it should be a good machine and hold value if not maybe be sought after. To me it’s just a deposit I was willing to risk regardless of what the other forum says. Would I have put full money down - no way.
So I am still holding on my bet we will see what May will hold.
I mean...shit...some guy is selling the ECTO Ghostbusters topper for $2500 and it will likely sell. How is that not fucking stupid. We can all take risks and be stupid with money. Because if we were smart would we be buying thousands of dollars of toys basically...
Exactly. It was always a gamble and anyone with half a brain knew that from the outset. All this endless dribble of "I told you so" and Jpop is satan is worn to say the least. Even if the game gets produced (and I sure as hell hope it does), it'll never be "good enough" for talking heads.
I'm right here likely till the end. Hell, I might get to give a toast to the 10 yr anniversary of the RAZA (BHZA) deposit.
Quoted from wamonkey:I think RAZA was a gamble and if it gets built it should be a good machine and hold value if not maybe be sought after. To me it’s just a deposit I was willing to risk regardless of what the other forum says. Would I have put full money down - no way.
You are still going go have to put up the full amount to complete your bet though. You think you are going to know the game’s future when the time comes to pay your balance?
The deposit is just stage one of the gamble. Stage two is paying your balance. Stage three is hoping it doesn’t turn into a paperweight.
Quoted from flynnibus:You are still going go have to put up the full amount to complete your bet though. You think you are going to know the game’s future when the time comes to pay your balance?
The deposit is just stage one of the gamble. Stage two is paying your balance. Stage three is hoping it doesn’t turn into a paperweight.
The only reason I wish for this game to be done honestly is to see an end to all this know it all Dribble! Seriously, how can anyone be So invested in something they have No investment in?? lol
Quoted from Yelobird:The only reason I wish for this game to be done honestly is to see an end to all this know it all Dribble! Seriously, how can anyone be So invested in something they have No investment in?? lol
So many wonder how someone can bury their head as deep as you have that the world spins different in your universe
Quoted from flynnibus:So many wonder how someone can bury their head as deep as you have that the world spins different in your universe
Quoted from flynnibus:So many wonder how someone can bury their head as deep as you have that the world spins different in your universe
And I often wonder why you and so many are so concerned with my decisions and how I spend my money? Oddly even my wife doesn't do that?? Thank you so much for your concerns, if I need your advise I'll reach out.
Quoted from Yelobird:And I often wonder why you and so many are so concerned with my decisions and how I spend my money? Oddly even my wife doesn't do that??
Do you make up non sense justifications when talking to her too? And expect her to just nod her head along with you?
Or do you respect her enough to call out your delusions?
People who think their only exposure is their initial deposit are just lying to themselves to make themselves feel better. Just having “something” ship is not a win
And I didn’t even question how you do something... you projected yourself on my post to someone else. So maybe it’s your own paranoia?
Quoted from Yelobird:The only reason I wish for this game to be done honestly is to see an end to all this know it all Dribble!
Quoted from Fulltilt:All this endless dribble of "I told you so" and Jpop is satan is worn to say the least
Quoted from Yelobird:Thank you so much for your concerns, if I need your advise I'll reach out.
Advice.
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