Fwiw, full Parking lot today on drive by

Even if I never get a RAZA or any other DeepRoot games, that table/glass lift design is literally the single greatest mechanical design idea I've seen in pinball. Like EVAR.

Yes. No, move on. That’s the word thus far.

Its an old design but its neat I guess.

While there have been job adds likely like most any short production line company (same with Stern, JJP) odds are they would focus on using temp labor agencies for these positions. Would be tough to hire/justify a glut of full time employees with benefits only to lay them off when the run is done. A single call and you could get 20 assembly laborers on-site in a day. Possibly the reason for all the cars in the lot now. Time will tell.

Doesn’t makes sense though. All that money in the design. They likely would offer it again.

visit the other thread...you might see some other things that don't make sense. maybe.

Ha! Very true. No one said it made sense, but it’s what has been said.

Oddly nobody will take your bet lol. Seemed like easy money for anyone confident.

How could anyone be confident that DR won't at least ship some Razas? By all accounts they are near the finish line. And no one but DR employees and insiders really knows what's going on in there. Even Steve Bowden, who works there, made it sound like he had no clue when Raza would ship.

A better bet would be will DR make any games after Raza? Or will their next game be out by the end of 2021. Those are bets ICE would get takers on.

Ok. Just seems most are so confident they will never make a game seems #iceman44 bet would be easy money with all that confidence.

I would take some of that money but can't find the post?

He has posted a dozen times in the other thread. I would take a bet that I get a game also. Easy money.

! I would take the proto- type

Or some people are not interested in other's ego games.

Yeah but I was wanting to take the "getting it made" side of the bet.

"Viva la raza"

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WRB1977 - nice try confronting the crap fest in the other forum. I can’t believe how everyone thinks they have all the info on DR and how they will fail or how much cash they have etc. Many businesses lose money for years before making a profit, does that mean DR will make it, who knows.

Most people admit DR would likely build RAZA but that forum rambles on.

We should be getting an update soon...

Again WRB1977 good to comment I always think I want to comment but what would the point be, they all want to just talk crap.

Best to just leave it alone. The only opinion that matters is Yours.

Certainly you are correct that no one has a clue how long they can continue to hemorrhage money, and perhaps the comparison to many startup companies is apt. The issue I see with that is that there is no profit in RAZA at their price point and sales numbers. So food truck better be a killer game and not another 2 years down the road. But maybe they could even get past that, who knows.

Sure there’s some shit slinging and bs in the other thread going in a monotonous cycle but that’s 1/2 of Pinside in general. It’s really still 50/50 as to what happens, no one knows. So seeing a half empty or half full glass at this pint is equally fair. But there’s Zero point in posting contrary opinions in the half empty thread just as negative opinions have been shoed away here. Anything new anyone can say here or there has been said, at this point in time, it seems.

We should be getting an update from Robert. Stuff needs to be going into production since the parts should now be available. We'll see.

I wouldn’t say I am optimistic on the next update, I would say there would be little news and no specific date again. But, I still believe at some point the games will ship I just think my original estimate is more likely and I said that is likely June.

Thanks. I wasn’t trying to confront the skeptics and critics in the other thread as I learned that is pointless long ago. I just wanted to correct some blatant misinformation so that their speculation doesn’t turn into a seemingly known fact about deeproot. Maybe the casual person reading about deeproot will see my posts and get some actual facts...who knows?

Yeah, June sounds like a fair estimate to me. It's been a looooong wait. I'm getting anxious to actually see games go out the door.

I am anxious for RAZA to be completed and out so they can start getting out game 2. Sure hope it is not far behind.

I am ready to see what Barry has been working on.

AMEN to all the above! And BIG shout out to Iceman and wrb1977!

Thanks Rarehero for pooping in our thread again

Wrb1977 and I disagree on Deeproot but I personally like and respect him very much and in my opinion he's a great representative for you guys.

Iceman has quit Pinside.

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He's done this before when things don't go his way.
He'll be back. Guaranteed.

Seems like a fair estimate and acceptable to me. On the long wait aspect I must have different expectations then others. I personally don't judge a wait by speculation or promotion but more so by Order date. Which in this case (to me) is still rather low and in the norm by my book. Waited 12 months for POTCCE, 18 months for WOZ, waited 3 years for BBB, waited Years for TBL all from deposit order so if 3 months is the norm I am fine with that especially with the unusual world events. But thats just me. Also looks like with deposit GnR fans will be in for a 12 plus month wait also so not much has changed other then our expectations.

Nice wait. Ordered Alien 2016 and still received nothing that’s a 5 year wait I’m running. Also probably have to shoot in more cash if the voucher won’t cover the full price. Crippling wait with cash injection bonus.

Thanks man!

Thanks Kim...I feel the same way. We disagree on things but you are respectful and fair. Someday we are going to have those beers!

Ouch, hope your Alien finally lands. I'm on the PB Alien list myself Hoping it turns out better then the first attempt. Time will tell.

Did you apply for voucher?

It takes five years to hatch

https://tenor.com/view/alien-stomach-burst-movies-film-gif-5982126

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No, luckily long ago I escaped that lost order que unlike many but opted to give it another go with PB. Heres to hoping it goes smoother this time.

Well, it feels like a long wait since deeproot started. And I keep expecting them to be almost ready to ship, and then months more go by. So it feels like a long wait to me.

Also, I firmly believe that RAZA wasn't supposed to ship with the Pinbar, and instead the Pinbar would've debuted on a subsequent game. I think RM decided to add it once the pandemic hit. It's the only way that I can explain the huge delay between last March's TPF "5 days" event and last Fall's failed event.

We can all theorize (seems there's a thread for that....) but we may never know what the original plan was (nor are we owed that story). Will only say from my world of manufacturing last year going into this year ALL time lines and expectations are Way off. Lead times for something as simple as a Molex plug are out weeks if not months so I'm personally not surprised there was a plan shift. As stated, like many in the past, pitches, rumors, marketing, etc mean nothing to me. The clock starts the day the order desk is Open. Not when the dialog starts. Last I checked there was no TPF last year let alone Any product shows so I don't think many were expecting a whole lot.

Agreed. It’s nice to hear information from someone that has some background in manufacturing and amazing pinball skills.

Lol. I'm like a mad chimp playing pinball. Manufacturing however I do know. Just toured Tesla for some manufacturing equipment. Build in America, support America!

I think you mean You keep expecting them to be ready to ship. They’ve been ‘almost’ ready to ship for a long time if you count from 5 days, which I believe RM said multiple games would be ready to sell (or even immediately available?) at that time. Not trying to spread misinfo, that’s just what I recall from interviews

You are kidding or exaggerating, right? we buy parts from all over the world, including about 20 different kinds of connectors, pins, circuit boards, leds, wire, etc. not one time during the pandemic, except at the very beginning when Chinese ports closed, have we had an issue getting anything. The post office is another issue, but parts were all available and still are. If you order from China you can get it in under 3 weeks via dhl, often just a few days. Specialized parts are another story as they often rely on a single supplier, but that wasn’t what your comment reflected.

So comparing your use of a dozen mod connectors is the same as a product with Thousands of parts?? Sorry not a realistic example. Never said you couldn't Get anything I said the lead times are off the charts and manufactured components were beyond the norm by a Lot. Most of my (real life, not pinball trinkets) manufacturers in fabricating have 4 month plus back logs. Good for America, not great for those with Amazon expectations.

Dozen? Nope, we buy in lots of hundreds or thousands, like 500 connectors or a thousand pins, or 5000 feet of wire, etc. We go through this stuff fast (a lot of my time is spent building parts inventory), but we also order very far in advance in case something does become hard to find or their is extended delivery time, or it’s just cheaper to buy in larger quantity knowing we will eventually use the parts. Some is direct from China or other places overseas, some comes from suppliers here in the US. I would think a pinball manufacturer would use this same strategy. Point is, if I can get it, I’d be shocked a pinball manufacturer couldn’t. Go on mouser or other parts supplier websites, there’s tens on thousands of pretty much any connector available in just a few days. I know some major pinball companies order from these sites. Again, if it’s a specialized part, that would be different, but generic pinball parts are all available and can be had in a matter of days, always could be throughout the pandemic. It can’t be an excuse for delayed production.

I haven’t followed deeproot very closely, hardly at all, but I thought they only sold like 150 of these games.

Think you miss read my statement on quantity. I said dozens of Different parts not quantity ordered. Referring to your statement "order 20 different types of connectors" where as a pinball machine is made up of Thousands of Different types of components. Manufacturing at this scale of car or pinball machine is much more then Amazon or Alibaba parts orders at this scale. And as you said with only 150 units that Multiplies the difficulty 10x with the low volume count. NO manufacturer at this time will touch low volume custom parts orders without a Crazy lead time.

There's an interesting quote from Ben Heck in the other thread that speaks to this issue and supports Yelobird

Several of you are right on different points. There are not many manufacturers and suppliers in the pinball industry over in China. We were lucky and ordered last year and our shipment just arrived last week. Customs cut all the bags in their inspection and now we are sorting out thousands of inserts. Wood and Metal contractors are behind and yes the costs went up for material and shipping. We are trying to manufacture most of the pinball parts in our own country.

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500 lbs of legs!

Deeproot will deliver , it just may take a little more time than expected.

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