The guy who provoked you was down-voted and also moderated. His comment was out of line and I don't think anyone blames you for retaliating.

And where did you get any of that from my comment? 'burn the company down'? Strawman much?

You may have gotten a game, and I don't know if you were an EA or later.. but does that negate any of the history or path Dutch Pinball took? Or, more to the point, what the buyers suffered through as Jaap and Barry basically refused to say anything.. and even when they did, they would provide slanted, only sunny updates? Less we forget the only way updates really got out were because people goaded them into the newsletter and releases (which was largely assembled by others) and the second hand info from people like rensh? That was years buyers were lead through a dark storm of white lies and people hiding from the public. Sure EAs have gotten more games... but it's still a long way to go. Let's hope sales keep up to keep the machine grinding.

The problem with DR isn't updates. The problem is someone who refuses to take ownership of their failures and keeps dancing verse building confidence in their ability to achieve what they say they will.

Actions like... 'oh our statement wasn't meant to be taken as' is garbage. This isn't some rank and file who spoke out of turn or without oversight. Instead of saying 'we have not accomplished what we intended...' the turn it around to blame you the reader. It's just garbage.. and if you want to put your head in the sand or just want to ignore it, that's your prerogative, but don't claim people manufacture hate or other non-sense simply because they call a spade a spade while you pray for happy thoughts.

Ok? But you pointed out DP. They Are still making games and Slowly trying to make good on sales. Whats the point with less words? Did they promise a timeline to you and miss or are you simply saying how You would do it. I know the story but who honestly cares? I went through the BBB decade also so what games still churned out no matter how the drama rolled. It's a hobby for us not a business strategy class. Your a savvy guy, if this doesn't seem like a smart play your fine to follow your decision. I personally am buying a game, Not investing in a Company or choosing a business partner (RM). If the Grand secret plan was to Steal $600 deposits from 120 people they certainly went about it the wrong way. Best to you and your next business startup.

Simple.. I'll repeat myself -- "if you want to put your head in the sand or just want to ignore it, that's your prerogative, but don't claim people manufacture hate or other non-sense simply because they call a spade a spade while you pray for happy thoughts."

Instead of people just saying "I'm ok with the risk" (which you have said prior) instead supporters are trying to rewrite and label doubters as people with agendas ("burning down the company") or distorting reality ("manufacturing hate") simply because they will not give DR the free pass you have. It's the textbook example of people trying to paint the opposition as some sort of boogie man because they don't follow the same path as you.

I'll tell you they did a great job designing this game. I love a lot of the unique features they put into the cabinet. I hope they get these out to the market.

Ok, if you can read that other thread and Not see hate, slander, and assumption from Many (NOT ALL) we must be reading a different thread of 15,000 posts. Your reply is actually a good point though you like many have Made your point. Do we need to kneel to you and say you are right? Is it at least Possible maybe your wrong? Maybe these games Will be made? You as many are not buying a product? Why are you So invested in proving us wrong???? Its confusing but I wish you well.

Ignore that guy. It’s a complete waste of time. He Loves to argue and he just goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on......
He thinks he’s in debate class. Lol.

Great post. I’m seeing all of this as a bad Return on Energy for all. The preorders are finished. Those that spent money have skin in the game. Others who DR owes money to want them to be successful in hopes we get paid back,

However, I’m with the many that think RM dug this hole. As leaders, which many of us are in upper management, we should expect more. There is no accountability with DR. None.

To me, that’s enough to not want to do any business with them.

Also, many on here make money from selling to others. The lack of civility can turn people off. Those people may decide no longer to spend their money on your products.

We can all be better. I know I can, I’m still holding a grudge on what John did. I can never support him again. I may buy a DR game, however it will not be one John designed as he has never admitted or apologized for what he’s done.

This is soooo true! He and other haters have spewed Into this thread because how can they debate themselves? So, let's go over here and ruffle some feathers. I'm also sick of hearing how they're trying to protect people from DR so we do not lose money by pre-ordering RAZA. Well it's too late for that! I wish people would just shut up and let me and others spend our money the way want to!!
As a pre-order buyer, I really don't care How they run their business. So why do all these non buying so called experts care what we do. Mind your own business keep to yourselves....oh yeah BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAAAHHHHH

Well you chose to quote me and spew more crap when I have already told you I did not order a RAZA and have no skin in the game. You are a very sensitive person to be bothered by that.

I think its unfortunate that many of you are cherry picking only the titillating posts and focusing on them. There have been some solid comments that seem to go ignored here. I mean I understand your frustrations and the sense you're being ganged up on. But you guys only seem able to justify Deeproot's actions instead of artfully defending them.

I'm amazed that not a single one of you critically analyzed the latest Deeproot update or the one before it. As I said before, some of the anger here I believe is misplaced.

And if you believe games finally shipping will be vindication, its not that simple. There are way too many layers to this saga still to come and past predictions from the sceptics have already proved true.

I guess I missed the boat on ordering this game....too bad I would have loved to have their limited edition game

There is nothing to “artfully defend” here. The melodrama is for the other thread We already purchased a game! If you need to justify why you decided to Not buy a game that is your decision and there is a thread for that! Thank you again for the PSA.

Well then if you haven’t ordered a Raza, what the fuck are you doing in this thread???
I don’t give a shit what you have to say pal. Bounce!!

Have your pre ordered a RAZA?????

Did you pre order a RAZA???

I nearly pre-ordered a RAZA, but decided to wait for a different DR game. The features of the platform excited me, but the actual game...not so much. I hope that we actually get more games from DR, and that we get them in a timely fashion. Their current track-record is terrible, and I don't understand how they are keeping the doors open. The revenue from 160 games sold won't come close to making the company financially viable. Especially, when you consider that DR probably doesn't even really know how much it will cost them to make each game.

I'd love to see DR's next game, but I'm honestly afraid that may be another year or more away.

Kim and I both have a lot of skin in the game, so to say. We want DR to succeed in hopes we get some of that $$$ back. I have $ 6500.00 on the line, so I guess I'm following as if DR is a success, we are more likely to get some of that $$$ back. I'd also like this to end as we are approaching an almost full decade of John's drama that I would like to be over.

The Who game that DR announced I'd like to see come to fruition as well. DR becoming a success creates more supply and may help the current price model for the entire community as ten years ago; Stern Pros could be had for $ 4k. I'd like to see an end to the mass inflation of prices. DR becoming a success could help that.

Sounds great and I do Hope Deeproot can bail you out of your investment in that Other company. Would be a great to see their effort make you whole again!

Keep the drama BS in the other thread. Is it that hard to understand? I too have been in on the drama for as long or longer than most.

We ALL know the well documented stories. It doesn’t bear repeating over and over again.

Or do we need to create our own private FB group like you did during the secret trials of Jpop. Lol

I did not. But that doesn't exclude me from commenting on an open forum.

I am rooting for all the guys who ordered and I want to see this game come to market. Who are you to tell me where I can post anyway?

I believe he simply asked if you ordered a Raza. Don't see where he told you you were not able to speak?

No it doesn’t BUT did you read the name of this thread??

It’s called the RAZA Pre-order “CLUB”.
This thread is created for people that have placed a PRE-ORDER for a RAZA.

Go to the Deep Root thread. Share your vast world of knowledge and opinions. I’m sure they will shower you with compliments.

Are all the RAZA orders closed for real or are there still orders available?

Yes closed.

Do what you want. But I’m pretty sure none of the guys who ordered need you to “root” for us. We’re grown men.
Jesus, this isn’t a life or death situation. It’s a small down payment for a pinball machine. It’s just a hobby. Chillax. Lol.

OK thanks

Seems like a pretty cutthroat hobby to me. I never knew the world of pinball was so convoluted....

Me, chillax? You are the one snapping at me and I have never even said anything to you. You need to relax since you are taking this way too seriously. If you have beef, send me a PM.
Btw, which is it? You snap and tell me to leave and then you say "do what you want", and contradict yourself. You are seriously mad that I want to follow the progress? I have not said 1 thing negative about the preorder guys or Deeproot.

Let me go on record and say #Tomass is Good people and FYI #KKlank be nicer to him as for record you currently have HIS beautiful BBB lol. It's all good sometimes we just get tired of everyone wanting to be our wife or mom. It just Pinball!!!

Thank you for the kind words. I only post here because I can't stand all the negative jokers who have nothing positive to add. I am not standing up for people who preordered as much as I am just calling out the BS for what it is. I can only imagine what it would be like living with some of those people.

The game is going to be radical! Imagine if every product had a forum pre-launch... anger levels would cause the entire internet to melt down. I love me some games, and will love this one. I try to never live in the past and attach myself to the specific people making these things... otherwise I’d just grow more and more bitter. Its like meeting that rockstar you loved growing up, to just throw out all their albums because they said the wrong thing to you in that chance encounter...

I'm sorry I've been trying to keep mostly quiet in this thread but in my world "sorry you didn't get the game you paid for but if you still want one you can buy one again" isn't "making good on sales". I'd be very weary of buying a TBL and even more weary of buying whatever the next game they announce. At least I could have my deposit with a reputable distributor for that though.

C'mon man, you knew where that statement was leading to.

RM needs to be questioned about Jpop involvement, questioned about manufacturing and questioned about what happens after the end of March. No one is attacking anyone except the company that overpromised.

I know I have not preordered and will take my leave again after this:

As someone who srsly cares this is the only news we get and a sign that they're still alive and kicking.
So I appreciate reading it.

And yes some of it is not worded well and they're behind their own schedule but anybody that really went in on RAZA knew that would happen, I assume.

Actually I did! (See proof below)

I do believe that DR will be successful and everyone will get their games, so much so that I actually reached out to DR a few weeks ago as a former JPOP RAZA pre-order who never turned in a claim form to DeepRoot to see if they would work with me on buying a game. I should have reached out sooner but I have been dealing with ongoing medical issues and with everything going on I just never got around to it and didn’t realize that there was a limited ordering window. I got a very nice email back from Wilhelm Letting me know that there was nothing they could do for me, which I completely understand.
Hopefully one of you guys will bring your game to a show once all the virus stuff blows over so I get a chance to play the game after all these years.

32769B47-A8B5-467B-A088-1577D3C4F651 (resized).jpeg

The Atlanta SFGE is now scheduled for August 20th - 22nd, I'll gladly take my Arcade Edition to the show and buy anyone a beer also. Seems like lots of people could just use some Beer and Pinball.

Sorry not sure I understand. Yes I admitted that DP was an very odd business plan but they Are very slowly still making EA games and shipping them. NOT as fast as everyone wanted but they are still shipping games. Was in No way saying I love how DP is doing it but they are at least not running away from their EA sales. Just taking forever lol.

DR announced theyll produce more RAZA than ordered and sell those after production is finished.

Btw I have a RAZA preorder = can post here

other than

who is not alowed to post here.

Hey guys

I've got a fun little thread about Childhood toys and youthful memory's on Pinside. We have zero negativity there, no misunderstandings or arguments and its a lot of fun. Its a great way to lighten up the day.

Anybody and everybody is welcome there and I wanted to extend an invitation to each of you.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-were-your-favorite-childhood-toys

I don't know. I had a Sonic Blaster when I was a kid. I pumped it up and blew it on the side of my neighbors head. He didn't think it was very funny and projected a LOT of negativity.

I want this.

That is a very young Kurt Russell.

I have been searching a good while...
Trying to regain my youth.

Concur, I think the updates are wonderful for those invested in Raza.
I could honestly care less about any negative opinions. I will be here waiting on my pre-order game.

Xtra preorder here. Deposit paid. Waiting and waiting. Anyone see any production line help wanted jobs being advertised at DeepRoot ?
I would think they would be hiring prior to assembly in enough time to train employees. I am sure the design team not doing the work.

I wouldn’t be so sure about the design team not being involved , but there were jobs advertised yes. Maybe difficult to train anyone too much without all parts in to build, and waiting on things to happen with indefinite time frames (certification,etc)

It looks like they only sold 160 of these? Are they going to do another run or just move on to future games? Just saw a video and kinda like the pinbar and backbox