(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

11 months ago


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  • 3,298 posts
  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 13 days ago by jeffspinballpalace
  • Topic is favorited by 89 Pinsiders

You

Topic poll

“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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There are 3,298 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 66.
#701 10 months ago

I ordered AE with these: Topper / Neon Rings / Toy Package / Shaker installed / GI Lighting

#702 10 months ago

You guys are not skeptical production is not even happening yet (most likely) I don't think anyone has got a call yet.

Again, I ordered but I am just thinking their time line is not realistic. Not trying to be nay sayer just trying to be realistic, I don't expect a call any time soon. Deeproot prove me wrong.

#703 10 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

You guys are not skeptical production is not even happening yet (most likely) I don't think anyone has got a call yet.
Again, I ordered but I am just thinking their time line is not realistic. Not trying to be nay sayer just trying to be realistic, I don't expect a call any time soon. Deeproot prove me wrong.

I think many are over analyzing the schedule. We know nothing about production nor were we owed that insight. When they start to overshoot estimated deadlines then its fair to speculate in my opinion. From the original sale it seemed clear early to Mid February would be the focus. I am assuming March as they ramp up. After That I will start to speculate. lol

#704 10 months ago

I'll worry about production time once people ahead of me start getting their games. Until then I'm not really giving it any thought.

#705 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:I think many are over analyzing the schedule. We know nothing about production nor were we owed that insight. When they start to overshoot estimated deadlines then its fair to speculate in my opinion. From the original sale it seemed clear early to Mid February would be the focus. I am assuming March as they ramp up. After That I will start to speculate. lol

Seems more realistic to me -

#706 10 months ago

Re Options... for my Ae, I opted to skip the anti-glare glass in favor of the lighting upgrade in hopes that the additional light below the glass will offset a bunch of the glare. Not second guessing myself yet, but I might cave and spring for the glass upgrade based on early reports from others who did the same thing.

#707 10 months ago

I spoke with Scott at Pinstadium lights and he reassured me that his kit will work with Raza. I was worried that this game will be very dark due to not having any GI lighting.

#708 10 months ago
Quoted from dannunz:

I spoke with Scott at Pinstadium lights and he reassured me that his kit will work with Raza. I was worried that this game will be very dark due to not having any GI lighting.

It does have GI lighting thanks.

#709 10 months ago
Quoted from dannunz:

... I was worried that this game will be very dark due to not having any GI lighting.

That seems to be common confusion since the under glass "extra" lighting was described as "GI" lighting.

It's pretty easy to see that it includes your standard GI lighting.

#710 10 months ago
Quoted from dannunz:

I spoke with Scott at Pinstadium lights and he reassured me that his kit will work with Raza. I was worried that this game will be very dark due to not having any GI lighting.


#711 10 months ago

Ok great news but its still getting pinstadiums lol

15
#712 10 months ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Ok great news but its still getting pinstadiums lol

But why? You could add the extra GI option for $100 and it's incorporated into the game. This is literally the last game I would consider putting PS on because you can effectively get the same thing cheaper as a factory add-on.

#713 10 months ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

But why? You could add the extra GI option for $100 and it's incorporated into the game. This is literally the last game I would consider putting PS on because you can effectively get the same thing cheaper as a factory add-on.

Is it as good? Any more info on the added lighting option? Is it just a led strip or is it interactive with game play?

#714 10 months ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Is it as good? Any more info on the added lighting option? Is it just a led strip or is it interactive with game play?

It is led strips but it does interact with gameplay and changes colors.

#715 10 months ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Is it as good? Any more info on the added lighting option? Is it just a led strip or is it interactive with game play?

There is information in the FAQ. The built-in option definitely seems more cost effective than Pinstadium.

#716 10 months ago

I really hope deeproot proves everyone wrong and they release a super solid game and fulfill all of the orders. Good luck to everyone on the pre-order list. I’m rooting for deeproot on this one.

I have spoken.

#717 10 months ago
Quoted from McDoom:

I have spoken.

Yeah...your name says it all....

#718 10 months ago

Anyone have any info to share?

#719 10 months ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Anyone have any info to share?

Today is Jan 25, 2021.

#720 10 months ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Anyone have any info to share?

Nope. Just crickets.

By the end of January, an official direct update of some kind would be nice. But....silence seems more often the norm, than routine info leaks, from pinball companies.

#721 10 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

Nope. Just crickets.
By the end of January, an official direct update of some kind would be nice. But....silence seems more often the norm, than routine info leaks, from pinball companies.

Since they said that the first games would ship between mid and late January, I fully expect some kind of communication by the end of the month if nothing has shipped yet.
This from the #3 in FAQ on the first post:

The first games should be leaving in mid to late Jan for US orders. There still are some supply orders we are watching closely for on time arrival

#722 10 months ago
Quoted from Jarson:

Since they said that the first games would ship between mid and late January, I fully expect some kind of communication by the end of the month if nothing has shipped yet.
This from the #3 in FAQ on the first post:

I wish I could say I expected, rather than hoped. Literally just 5 days left in January.....

#723 10 months ago

I am expecting delays before the first game go out. End of February seems more realistic to me, especially knowing in December they were waiting on parts. What parts? Don't know.

I am order #216 with the arcade edition and I don't mind mine being delayed until April/May. That would give me time that I need to finish up one project game that I need to sell to make room that I need for RAZA.

#724 10 months ago

I am patient. Been waiting for 3 or 4 years since Deeproot started, so another 3 extra months will not bug me a bit. Wish more people were patient. I rather the games be delayed than hear of the first adopter's games having major issues.

Same goes for the Alien pre-orders.

#725 10 months ago

The first orders are supposed to go out at 6 weeks after the close of the preorders accordng to the faq. I wouldn't expect a peep before Feb 15th at the earliest.

15
#726 10 months ago

I emailed DR today. They said Robert would be updating customers next week..

#727 10 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

I emailed DR today. They said Robert would be updating customers next week..

Well done thank you.

#728 10 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

I emailed DR today. They said Robert would be updating customers next week..

Sweet .. Thx for the update!

#729 10 months ago
Quoted from Stemmy:

I emailed DR today. They said Robert would be updating customers next week..

Hopefully with a "when" and not a "why not".

-1
#730 10 months ago

I bet the total amount of games gets rounded up to 500 total between the 2 editions.

#731 10 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I bet the total amount of games gets rounded up to 500 total between the 2 editions.

I suspect by Guess only that this is capped out at less then 250 with 50 fitting the Xtra version. Again just a guess. Regardless I am really looking forward to this pin.

#732 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I suspect by Guess only that this is capped out at less then 250 with 50 fitting the Xtra version. Again just a guess. Regardless I am really looking forward to this pin.

Somewhere deeproot stated no more than 300 Xtra edition will be built. I bet that full amount will get made.

#733 10 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Somewhere deeproot stated no more than 300 Xtra edition will be built. I bet that full amount will get made.

Don't think so in talking to them and what they posted on the for sale launch day. They said that was the cap but All sales were done on the December date no matter how many were sold then they are moving on to the next game.

#734 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Don't think so in talking to them and what they posted on the for sale launch day. They said that was the cap but All sales were done on the December date no matter how many were sold then they are moving on to the next game.

I agree plus a few more with extra parts if any are left over. The Xtra is going to be a small number produced. Making them very collectible and highly sought after. Glad I pulled the trigger on this one

#735 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Don't think so in talking to them and what they posted on the for sale launch day. They said that was the cap but All sales were done on the December date no matter how many were sold then they are moving on to the next game.

It was even posted on deeproot website, they will round up the number and also would capped at a maximum of 300 Extra editions. I can't help but want to be optimistic that 500 RAZA will be built. They definitely would sell the remainder of that number, from the initial sale, once these start shipping out.

I think Robert already had a minimum quantity in mind that he wanted to build, regardless what may have sold in December.

#736 10 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I think Robert already had a minimum quantity in mind that he wanted to build, regardless what may have sold in December.

Sorry, I was just going by what he said vs what I assume he is thinking. Sounded like a one and done but of no interest to me as long as one is mine. Rather 2 in this case.

#737 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Sorry, I was just going by what he said vs what I assume he is thinking. Sounded like a one and done but of no interest to me as long as one is mine. Rather 2 in this case.

No worries. We all are speculating and trying to keep up with Robert's latest info that is a constant moving target. You are basing it on info in a podcast from early December?

I am glad the production line has been started.

#738 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Sounded like a one and done

One and done production run. Yes. That I agree on. Hopefully we will hear next week what the total number of the run will be. I still think it will be a run of 500 total.

#739 10 months ago

Got the update email from Deeproot:

Dear RAZA Customer:

First, thank you for your business and decision to buy in to an amazing machine we spent years designing to bring out the best of Popadiuk’s original theme and layout. As I am writing this email, I am aware of the weight of accountability in fulfilling orders of quality machines as soon as possible. I am providing the below update as a matter of goodwill and transparency, knowing that it will be unfortunately posted online or misreported by podcasts (plural), twisted in ways where truth, civility, and rationality go to die.

ORDERS
We received orders (paid or goodwill) for ~70 Arcade Editions of RAZA, and ~60 Xtra Editions of RAZA. We will round up to 160 total RAZA Games with most of the remaining games available for sale at $8,000USD starting price for the Arcade Edition, and $13,000USD flat fee for the Xtra Edition. More details on timing of that later. After all RAZA games have sold we will publish (for historical purposes - IPDB), the exact game counts.

UL/CE
We were not able to get our machines scheduled into the labs for UL testing or International/CE testing until two weeks ago. So far I understand that most tests have been passed. I understand it can take up to 5 weeks to complete testing and receiving reports and certification. We will not be able to release/ship any games until those are complete.

PARTS
With most vendors going dark for the last two weeks of December and first week of January, we have orders in for about 70% of the BOM. There are three main hiccups:
• Long lead times in general and vendors promising one thing before they get their money, than quickly changing their tune after getting their money is the most prevalent reason for the delayed orders and parts. There have been some great vendors who are exceeding expectations; and we sincerely appreciate their efforts.
• The lockbar we designed as more ergonomically usable is complex with two stamps and several welded reinforcements. The complexity of the design has caused a large number of vendors to pass on it with the cost and time frame we needed it. We finally have two vendors that are willing to do small runs. The problem is getting them into their already full production schedule to arrive asap.
• The lighted side panel prototypes we had for our 2 Xtra editions had some wear/tear and technical issues with frayed wires and sizing. It has taken the last 60+ days working with several vendors to redesign them to be more durable and allow spacing for leg protectors or cup holders, etc.

PRODUCTION
We have the first lines ready to go and will proceed in prepping what we can while waiting on parts and certification. Since there are tiered production stations the ones that can produce deliverables will start in the next few weeks. I made the decision not to show production lines or illusory and deceptive pictures of parts or lines or cabinets for many obvious reasons. The only thing that matters is you getting your brand new RAZA on your doorstep in working condition as soon as possible. That is a picture that will actually mean something. We fully look forward to seeing your delivery pics and unboxing videos posted or tagged to one or more of our social media pages.

ADDITIONAL STREAMS
We have received lots of requests for additional video coverage or streaming. We finally got all the cameras for our internal rig. But (and being completely honest) I have requested that they be delayed for now. Our creative team is working hard on other projects and deadlines. I feel that since orders are over, adding additional content in the short term is moot.

EXPECTATIONS
Disappointing news may still have a bright side. We expect to receive parts through the first week of March at this point with the first RAZAs leaving mid-March. The certifications for UL/CE should also be done around the time. While that may sound disappointing to wait another couple of weeks for games, there is a bright side. Since the run of RAZA machines is limited, we should be done much quicker than our anticipated and originally announced time of 3.5-4 months.

We have had some of you contact us about jumping the line. It doesn’t make any sense at this point. You and other customers will be playing RAZA sooner than you think.

NEXT COMMUNICATION
I plan to update customers again by the end of February. Thank you again for your trust and business. Thank you for your patience. We look forward to exceeding expectations and we are grateful for you allowing us a chance to do so. If you have any questions, please contact us at [email protected] or by visiting the website. Best! -Robert J. Mueller

==============================================
You are receiving this email because you purchased a RAZA machine from us.

Unsubscribe -------------------- from this list:

Our mailing address is:
deeproot Pinball
12621 Silicon Dr
San Antonio, TX 78249-3447
USA

Our telephone:
(800) 243-6176

Update your profile:
-------------------

#740 10 months ago

Too bad only 160 will get made. Waiting time for me is not a problem.

Hopefully their 2nd game will be rolling not too long after RAZA ships

#741 10 months ago

Really excited about the email!

Confirms numbers alloted, and gives a reasonable expectation date for launch..!

-1
#742 10 months ago
Quoted from Jarson:

I am providing the below update as a matter of goodwill and transparency, knowing that it will be unfortunately posted online

Quoted from Jarson:

Got the update email from Deeproot:

Dear RAZA Customer:

I guess somebody had to be the guy.

I barely finished reading the email and you've already posted it online.

I'm all about objectivity, and being part of the Zidware people, I'm more jaded than most RAZA buyers. But posting this update is just feeding the trolls at this stage. But hey, RM knew someone would. Congrats on being the one I guess.

#743 10 months ago

I believe transparency is best. Hiding things just creates more room for disinformation and does not do the hobby good.

I liked a lot of what I saw in the letter, especially that this is a low-run game. It will be highly sought after and I'm glad I pulled the trigger and I hope to have this game by April! Deeproot posting the final numbers too I thnk is great for historical purposes, IPDB listings, etc. I wish the bigger manufacturers would release their numbers at some point.

#744 10 months ago

Here is the response on the Xtra topper

Thanks for your email. I was told that we are not releasing pics yet of the Xtra topper. The nedlings are still 3d printed so it’s not ready for prime time. Unfortunately, I don’t have a timeline for you other than Robert saying Q2 of this year. Thanks for checking in.

 

W/dP

#745 10 months ago

Really happy they didn't wait till the 31st to send that update out.

It is all good news as far as I'm concerned because it demonstrates responsibility, planning, and competent management. (Don't freak out by my use of 'competent', I was a Zidware customer so (to me) the bar is rather low.)

I appreciate gaining the confidence that is instilled when they take time to communicate with us and be honest about expectation setting. Now we will wait and see what next month's update brings.

#746 10 months ago
Quoted from mrbillishere:

Really happy they didn't wait till the 31st to send that update out.
It is all good news as far as I'm concerned because it demonstrates responsibility, planning, and competent management. (Don't freak out by my use of 'competent', I was a Zidware customer so (to me) the bar is rather low.)
I appreciate gaining the confidence that is instilled when they take time to communicate with us and be honest about expectation setting. Now we will wait and see what next month's update brings.

I agree it's great to hear news even if its not what I want to hear. I feel much better seeing a post from Robert, this is stressful we invested money and believe in this company and everyone who bought wants this company to be a huge success. I have spoken to Robert 5 or 6 times and I know this guy wants to win. I have started a few companies myself and the stress and pressure are incredible. let's ignore the negative BS online and stand with Deeproot, if we don't nobody else ever will.

#747 10 months ago

The update from Robert was no surprise, i was expecting delays especially because the last year nothing worked normally. The email was on point and informative leaving all important questions answered. The limited number of units will be a wonderful bonus for all the people who have been supportive regardless of the onslaught of negativity by the pinball specialists. This particular game will be a very collectable title. Lucky us!

#748 10 months ago
Quoted from Robo1:

The update from Robert was no surprise, i was expecting delays especially because the last year nothing worked normally. The email was on point and informative leaving all important questions answered. The limited number of units will be a wonderful bonus for all the people who have been supportive regardless of the onslaught of negativity by the pinball specialists. This particular game will be a very collectable title. Lucky us!

The other forum on DR would poo poo everything likely even when the machines ships. It’s not a huge number of machines and as a new company trying to push out a machine during COVID I can see not having all parts. They don’t give DR any credit they are not Stern, JJP, or even Spooky so some delays should be expected. CCP has delays, people wait for GNR or Spooky RM but because RAZA is delayed DR is a crap company and outside business experts know how Deeproot is now doomed.

I like the update communication and can accept the delays as long as they keep talking.

I hope Deeproot can build these machines on their adjusted time table and for their best interest move on to their next title. They would not need a huge staff to produce this number of machines or a huge stockpile of parts so I can see these likely shipped by summer hopefully.

#749 10 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

The other forum on DR would poo poo everything likely even when the machines ships.

I realize its easy to get lost in the mix but many of us have posted several times how we want you guys to receive your games. And I personally believe that Deeproot is trying and you eventually will get them.

Round of beers on me for an invitation to play.

#750 10 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Round of beers on me for an invitation to play.

Invitation to the Cheap Ass RGPB #36 to play a game(s) and buy the beers.

IMG_0359 (resized).jpeg

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