(Topic ID: 283944)

RAZA Pre-order Club: A Cautionary Tale

By NoMonkey

2 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 3,299 posts
  • 253 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Nysbadmk8
  • Topic is favorited by 73 Pinsiders

You

Topic poll

“Which Edition Did You Order”

  • Arcade 27 votes
    52%
  • Xtra 25 votes
    48%

(52 votes)

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There are 3,299 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 66.
#451 2 years ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

I'm not against Deeproot, I'm SHOCKED they're asking for a $2000 deposit why not $500? Why not $1000? Why $2000?

You doctor are SHOCKED for no good reason as my deposit was $589.90. So I find it funny when you say why not $500?...well mine actually was! The deposits varied with each edition and options ordered. So if someone, such as myself, wanted to minimize financial risk and still get in on RAZA, it was very doable. Get your facts straight before you stroke out over being misinformed about a pin you clearly did not want to order in the first place.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

#452 2 years ago

Does anyone know the details about Robert Muller promising to pay back coin taker $107,000 for cash given to Papa for this very game and getting screwed. Robert Muller supposedly promised to pay them back that debt now refusing. Is this true?. Here is what I find odd, kudos to Pinball Brothers for saying they’re going to try and make good on Alien customers who got screwed. Kudos to the the team behind Big Lebowski for doing all they’re doing to make good on those games to the people who got screwed. Why is it that Deeproot is going to take over a game like those other new companies and they won’t make good to a company like Coin Taker??

If Robert didn’t want to have ANYTHING to do with those debts why didn’t he just build his own game from scratch rather than taking a game that owes people and business six figures plus? Can anyone shed some light on that then explain how that is ethical. Hey these are some of the reasons why I doubt this company is either going to build these games, or run their business ethically. I think these are fair comments.

But again GOOD luck to EVERYONE but I personally wouldn’t DONATE money on an assumption you may or may not get your game. I really hope Deeproot pays back coin taker and every single buyer who got screwed by Papa deals. I really do hope they go on to produce amazing games and deliver but after they pay back every debt associated with RAZA. If you want respect you must earn it not demand it or assume it.

Maybe Deeproot can come on this very thread and explain their debt to Coin Taker and explain why they will or won’t pay them back that debt. So if they won’t pay back Coin Taker who’s to say they’ll pay back anyone else. For these reasons I won’t give them a red cent unless the owner can come on here and explain why he won’t pay back every single person and company who invested in this game the first time around.

#453 2 years ago

Question, is the glass a standard size on the arcade version?

#454 2 years ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Question, is the glass a standard size on the arcade version?

First post Q and A. No it is not standard and the glass is the same on both models.

#455 2 years ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

Does anyone know the details about Robert Muller promising to pay back coin taker $107,000 for cash given to Papa for this very game and getting screwed.

Just knowing how quickly incorrect information can spread on the internet, I'd urge you to be cautious when talking about "papa". Presumably you're referring to John Popadiuk... but please don't confuse people by referencing "PAPA", a renowned tournament organization that (AFAIK) has nothing to do with any of this.

#456 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

First post Q and A. No it is not standard and the glass is the same on both models.

Thx

#457 2 years ago

Good riddance to 2020. I hope everyone has a healthy, happy, and safe 2021!

2021...the year Ned tries to wreak havoc!!!

10
#458 2 years ago

Prepping a spot in the gameroom for Raza's arrival this year! Should be a fun 2021.

IMG_6214 (resized).jpgIMG_6214 (resized).jpg
#459 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Prepping a spot in the gameroom for Raza's arrival this year! Should be a fun 2021.
[quoted image]

Very cool man!

So is that their first layout for the playfield?

#460 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Prepping a spot in the gameroom for Raza's arrival this year! Should be a fun 2021.
[quoted image]

You got lucky to get one. I asked Mirco to get one in the past. How did you get it?

11
#461 2 years ago
Quoted from noitbe1:

You got lucky to get one. I asked Mirco to get one in the past. How did you get it?

A year ago there was a children's hospital charity auction with many pinball donors. This was a 1 of 1 signed by all at Deeproot uncut playfield. I am Drawn to the odd and unusual....lol Really is nice though.

13
#462 2 years ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

For these reasons I won’t give them a red cent unless the owner can come on here and explain why he won’t pay back every single person and company who invested in this game the first time around.

So...the only thing missing for you to buy in on RAZA is an explanation? Call me crazy, but I have a feeling Robert could come on here and answer questions for hours and you still wouldn’t be a customer. Frankly, you appear to be in here to try and make people who are otherwise happy in here unhappy. Why not post in the other Deeproot thread or perhaps the JPop thread?

Quoted from drfrightner:

Maybe Deeproot can come on this very thread and explain their debt to Coin Taker and explain why they will or won’t pay them back that debt.

I like Coin Taker and the people behind them, but identifying Deeproot as affirmatively owing Coin Taker some type of debt seems unfair and filled with speculation (it also seems off topic). We know JPop/Zidware mistreated Coin Taker (and many other people), but a word like “debt” infers that you believe Deeproot incurred some kind of legal obligation and can’t make good on it...we just don’t know whether that’s the case or whether (if it occurred) it was conditional in some way or something else that didn’t or hasn’t yet happened. Deeproot is not Zidware...

Anyway, JPop landing at Deeproot is one of the most baffling things I’ve seen in pinball. I just don’t understand how JPop lands on his feet no matter what he does...and why Deeproot took him on with his baggage and shot reputation...but it’s done, he’s there (I guess anyway), and RAZA is coming out assuming Deeproot indeed can manufacture it. Let the people who are excited about RAZA be excited about RAZA.

#463 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

So...the only thing missing for you to buy in on RAZA is an explanation? Call me crazy, but I have a feeling Robert could come on here and answer questions for hours and you still wouldn’t be a customer. Frankly, you appear to be in here to try and make people who are otherwise happy in here unhappy. Why not post in the other Deeproot thread or perhaps the JPop thread?

I like Coin Taker and the people behind them, but identifying Deeproot as affirmatively owing Coin Taker some type of debt seems unfair and filled with speculation (it also seems off topic). We know JPop/Zidware mistreated Coin Taker (and many other people), but a word like “debt” infers that you believe Deeproot incurred some kind of legal obligation and can’t make good on it...we just don’t know whether that’s the case or whether (if it occurred) it was conditional in some way or something else that didn’t or hasn’t yet happened. Deeproot is not Zidware...
Anyway, JPop landing at Deeproot is one of the most baffling things I’ve seen in pinball. I just don’t understand how JPop lands on his feet no matter what he does...and why Deeproot took him on with his baggage and shot reputation...but it’s done, he’s there, and RAZA is coming out assuming Deeproot indeed can manufacture it. Let the people who are excited about RAZA be excited about RAZA.

Coin taker needs to come on to let you know what happened. Short Story is Robert promised things that he didn’t deliver. It is very telling of Robert’s character. Deeproot absolutely owes Coin Taker.

#464 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Coin taker needs to come on to let you know what happened. Short Story is Robert promised things that he didn’t deliver. It is very telling of Robert’s character. Deeproot absolutely owes Coin Taker.

Fair enough, I know nothing about it.

#465 2 years ago

To Tiger's point, this is a positive Club thread, go take a shit elsewhere Frightening

#466 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Coin taker needs to come on to let you know what happened. Short Story is Robert promised things that he didn’t deliver. It is very telling of Robert’s character. Deeproot absolutely owes Coin Taker.

Was there a contract? Or was this DR just trying to make people burnt by Zidware whole? If the latter- “owes” is strong wording. If the former they should pay up.

18
#467 2 years ago

Created an account to say I got in on a RAZA Xtra early morning on the 30th... took some convincing the wife and it only cost me a promise to remodel a bathroom that I was secretly planing to do anyway so I'm calling it a Win.

Order#100221

It will be the first Pin in the house and will be the start of many more to come.

#468 2 years ago
Quoted from BladesOfSteel:

Created an account to say I got in on a RAZA Xtra early morning on the 30th... took some convincing the wife and it only cost me a promise to remodel a bathroom that I was secretly planing to do anyway so I'm calling it a Win.
Order#100221
It will be the first Pin in the house and will be the start of many more to come.

Congrats and welcome aboard.

#469 2 years ago
Quoted from BladesOfSteel:

Created an account to say I got in on a RAZA Xtra early morning on the 30th... took some convincing the wife and it only cost me a promise to remodel a bathroom that I was secretly planing to do anyway so I'm calling it a Win.
Order#100221
It will be the first Pin in the house and will be the start of many more to come.

You are truly already a Pinball Wizard

#470 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

So...the only thing missing for you to buy in on RAZA is an explanation? Call me crazy, but I have a feeling Robert could come on here and answer questions for hours and you still wouldn’t be a customer. Frankly, you appear to be in here to try and make people who are otherwise happy in here unhappy. Why not post in the other Deeproot thread or perhaps the JPop thread?

I like Coin Taker and the people behind them, but identifying Deeproot as affirmatively owing Coin Taker some type of debt seems unfair and filled with speculation (it also seems off topic). We know JPop/Zidware mistreated Coin Taker (and many other people), but a word like “debt” infers that you believe Deeproot incurred some kind of legal obligation and can’t make good on it...we just don’t know whether that’s the case or whether (if it occurred) it was conditional in some way or something else that didn’t or hasn’t yet happened. Deeproot is not Zidware...
Anyway, JPop landing at Deeproot is one of the most baffling things I’ve seen in pinball. I just don’t understand how JPop lands on his feet no matter what he does...and why Deeproot took him on with his baggage and shot reputation...but it’s done, he’s there (I guess anyway), and RAZA is coming out assuming Deeproot indeed can manufacture it. Let the people who are excited about RAZA be excited about RAZA.

Thank you.

#471 2 years ago
Quoted from BladesOfSteel:

Created an account to say I got in on a RAZA Xtra early morning on the 30th... took some convincing the wife and it only cost me a promise to remodel a bathroom that I was secretly planing to do anyway so I'm calling it a Win.
Order#100221
It will be the first Pin in the house and will be the start of many more to come.

Ha! Nice work and congrats!!!

11
#472 2 years ago

I'm a little late to this party: I posted this in another RAZA thread, 4 days ago. I hadn't known about this topic until today. However, wanted to share what options I ordered on the AE. I'm excited to be in the "Club".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I got my RAZA AE order completed today (4 days ago) #100211

I ordered these options:

Topper
Neon Rings (vs. white rubber rings)
Shaker Motor Installed
Upgraded Toy Package
GI Lighting (still not clear if this lighting is interactive)

I was considering Standard PinKit Care Package (description online: a collection of common wear & tear replacement parts for customers wishing to have on hand). I wasn't clear on what exactly this package included, so I passed.

#473 2 years ago
Quoted from Kerry_Richard:

I'm a little late to this party: I posted this in another RAZA thread, 4 days ago. I hadn't known about this topic until today. However, wanted to share what options I ordered on the AE. I'm excited to be in the "Club".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I got my RAZA AE order completed today (4 days ago) #100211
I ordered these options:
Topper
Neon Rings (vs. white rubber rings)
Shaker Motor Installed
Upgraded Toy Package
GI Lighting (still not clear if this lighting is interactive)
I was considering Standard PinKit Care Package (description online: a collection of common wear & tear replacement parts for customers wishing to have on hand). I wasn't clear on what exactly this package included, so I passed.

Glad you found us and we’re happy to have you! Congrats on the order!!!

#474 2 years ago

Yelobird...I know you will be one of the first to receive RAZA...did deeproot give you a projected delivery date? Do you have any update on production? Last I heard was late January / early February for the first ones to ship.

Now we all wait...

#475 2 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

yelobird...I know you will be one of the first to receive RAZA...did deeproot give you a projected delivery date? Do you have any update on production? Last I heard was late January / early February for the first ones to ship.
Now we all wait...

No update as of yet though it is only 1 day in. My expectation was February personally. Any updates I get will certainly be shared as well as an open invite to anyone near this area when they arrive to try it out. Already have some mod ideas on in layout for this interesting concept.

#476 2 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

yelobird...I know you will be one of the first to receive RAZA...did deeproot give you a projected delivery date? Do you have any update on production? Last I heard was late January / early February for the first ones to ship.
Now we all wait...

I spoke to Robert last Tues and he told me that there were a few parts that they were still getting from vendors. I had not ordered yet and he knew this so I appreciated the honesty. He stated that the game would be produced in about two weeks mid Jan and he thought the run would be done by Mar. I am as nervous as anyone who put down a deposit but I want to believe that this will be a success and hope Deeproot makes many games in the future.

#477 2 years ago
Quoted from Mark1971:

I spoke to Robert last Tues and he told me that there were a few parts that they were still getting from vendors.

Not surprising, but they can build the games to a point waiting for whatever parts are needed. Just hope they have room to store a lot of partial games as they wait on the remainder of the parts.

#478 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

No update as of yet though it is only 1 day in. My expectation was February personally. Any updates I get will certainly be shared as well as an open invite to anyone near this area when they arrive to try it out. Already have some mod ideas on in layout for this interesting concept.

Did someone say mods?!!! That’s the icing on the cake. I call dibs! Your mods are always high quality and fit a theme very well. I’m excited.

#479 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

Did someone say mods?!!! That’s the icing on the cake. I call dibs! Your mods are always high quality and fit a theme very well. I’m excited.

Lol. Thanks KK. Open themes have unlimited potential. Can’t wait.

#480 2 years ago

Mods Planned Yelobird ?

#482 2 years ago

Fantastic!!

#483 2 years ago

can't wait to order!!!!!!

#484 2 years ago

Just curious is DR making these OR did they contract the games out?
I heard a couple of different views.

#485 2 years ago
Quoted from Mark1971:

I spoke to Robert last Tues and he told me that there were a few parts that they were still getting from vendors. I had not ordered yet and he knew this so I appreciated the honesty. He stated that the game would be produced in about two weeks mid Jan and he thought the run would be done by Mar. I am as nervous as anyone who put down a deposit but I want to believe that this will be a success and hope Deeproot makes many games in the future.

This is very confusing to me — wasn’t the point of taking deposits to know how many parts to order? So 1 day after closing the list they already have all but a few items to make these games and can start making complete games in about 2 weeks????

Honestly partial building of games doesn’t make sense unless they are hand building these one by one with the engineering staff. That said I think at this point the only way they could believe they will start building in 2 weeks is if they are doing this themselves, otherwise they’d need to take the number of orders they got and shop it to a manufacturer and it would take a long time to get that all lined up, parts to them, process figured out, and availability on a schedule.

At any rate, it seems they may have already estimated how many would sell and got most parts ordered a while ago if they are as close as Robert says they are. So what’s the point of the deposits and order period??? Pretty much just hype up the fomo, and maximize orders w/out buyers being able to try the product. Great tactic honestly, if that’s the angle. Although, if they believe it’s a good product why would they not want to get it in customers hands with hope of selling even more? There are confusing aspects to what they decided to do.

#486 2 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

This is very confusing to me — wasn’t the point of taking deposits to know how many parts to order? So 1 day after closing the list they already have all but a few items to make these games and can start making complete games in about 2 weeks????
Honestly partial building of games doesn’t make sense unless they are hand building these one by one with the engineering staff. That said I think at this point the only way they could believe they will start building in 2 weeks is if they are doing this themselves, otherwise they’d need to take the number of orders they got and shop it to a manufacturer and it would take a long time to get that all lined up, parts to them, process figured out, and availability on a schedule.
At any rate, it seems they may have already estimated how many would sell and got most parts ordered a while ago if they are as close as Robert says they are. So what’s the point of the deposits and order period??? Pretty much just hype up the fomo, and maximize orders w/out buyers being able to try the product. Great tactic honestly, if that’s the angle. Although, if they believe it’s a good product why would they not want to get it in customers hands with hope of selling even more? There are confusing aspects to what they decided to do.

Time will tell. All I know is I’m damn excited to get it! I don’t really care too much about what their marketing strategy was or why they wanted deposits as the orders closed on December 30th and is of little importance now. Whatever decisions they made I’m sure they had their reasons. What’s important now is deeproot manufacturing and delivering games to their customers as everything else that was said or done is in the past where it belongs. Deeproot has indicated for a long time now that RAZA would be a very limited release. Now that they have actual orders and deposits...they will either sink or swim in these next few months. I’m looking forward and am curious when the first RAZAs will ship. I’m optimistic for Q1 of 2021.

#487 2 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

So what’s the point of the deposits and order period??? Pretty much just hype up the fomo,

As this is now Done I don't see why this needs to be further debated but my GUess is with the venomous following pushing doubt the last thing they wanted was 2000 fake Non-Deposit commitments (say from that other thread) to establish the start point only to have it crash when they all walk away laughing. Just a guess. I would have done a deposit also. Last 3 Sterns And JJP's I ordered I was required to put a 1K Non Refundable deposit down so not sure why this is such a Wow moment for everyone??

#488 2 years ago

The conspiracy theories swirling around deeproot rival that of the JFK assassination, Apollo 11, 9/11, and flat earthers.

#489 2 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

The conspiracy theories swirling around deeproot rival that of the JFK assassination, Apollo 11, 9/11, and flat earthers.

Glad the Mayan calendar and UFO’s are safe.

-2
#490 2 years ago

What happened to the other 4 games that are supposed to be available for order? What about the 5 days of Deeproot?

#491 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

What happened to the other 4 games that are supposed to be available for order? What about the 5 days of Deeproot?

Are you serious? Again? Does it prevent you to sleep at night?
You have the other thread if you need to.

#492 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

What happened to the other 4 games that are supposed to be available for order? What about the 5 days of Deeproot?

You're just being a troll at this point. This is a RAZApre-order thread and now it's a Raza owner's thread until we can officially make one. You have the opportunity to speak your opinion in other threads on Pinside where you can troll with all the other naysayers

#493 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

What happened to the other 4 games that are supposed to be available for order? What about the 5 days of Deeproot?

This should help:

THE FIVE DAYS OF DEEPROOT

In the previous interview, Robert mentioned the 5 days of deeproot but did not give any specifics regarding what the event would entail. It is scheduled to be a marketing event to show off deeproot Pinball and their ideas, and is expected to be held directly before deeproot Pinball’s official launch. Below is a tentative (and somewhat vague) schedule for the topics and events:

Day One: The deeproot Standard
Day Two: Design
Day Three: Immersion
Day Four: Culture
Day Five: Launch Event

#494 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

As this is now Done I don't see why this needs to be further debated but my GUess is with the venomous following pushing doubt the last thing they wanted was 2000 fake Non-Deposit commitments (say from that other thread) to establish the start point only to have it crash when they all walk away laughing. Just a guess. I would have done a deposit also. Last 3 Sterns And JJP's I ordered I was required to put a 1K Non Refundable deposit down so not sure why this is such a Wow moment for everyone??

I put down $1500 plus tax for Rick and Morty.

This was just $589 flat.

Given, one company has produced hundreds of several different titles, and the other is just starting out. But how does Spooky, JJP, or American Pinball create games 2, 3, etc., if no one believes in them to help create games initially?

This entire approach has been the same as any other new company, for the most part.

I wasn't into home ownership during the onset of JJP. So...THIS...is my $6500 WoZ.

#495 2 years ago
Quoted from frankmac:

This should help:
THE FIVE DAYS OF DEEPROOT
In the previous interview, Robert mentioned the 5 days of deeproot but did not give any specifics regarding what the event would entail. It is scheduled to be a marketing event to show off deeproot Pinball and their ideas, and is expected to be held directly before deeproot Pinball’s official launch. Below is a tentative (and somewhat vague) schedule for the topics and events:
Day One: The deeproot Standard
Day Two: Design
Day Three: Immersion
Day Four: Culture
Day Five: Launch Event

Keep us posted

#496 2 years ago
Quoted from TaTa:

Keep us posted

This was before Covid-19 hit. Before and at the Texas Pinball Festival was going to be the five days.

C-19 changed that..

#497 2 years ago

Are we there yet?

-2
#499 2 years ago

Let’s see some pics of RAZA in your game room! What will be the ETA for that photo predict the year, month, decade and century. Let see who gets the closest.

I have a serious question for you guys who ordered.

If you pay 13k for the LE version do you get a letter of authenticity signed by Robert Muller? Is that a perk for ordering that version because that might put me over the edge and go for it.

#500 2 years ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

Let’s see some pics of RAZA in your game room! What will be the ETA for that photo predict the year, month, decade and century. Let see who gets the closest.
I have a serious question for you guys who ordered.
If you pay 13k for the LE version do you get a letter of authenticity signed by Robert Muller? Is that a perk for ordering that version because that might put me over the edge and go for it.

Now that's a funny one there....

On second thought , if there is an autograph involved...sign me up!

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