Is there any actual shipping date or estimate for it yet?

Hank is top notch to deal with.

Hank, your collection is enviable. In fact I wish you were my neighbor. But back to topic - GLWTS.

Good call.

why go from a limited pre-order to a non-limited pre-order?

Sorry hank, but this one is odd to me. No harm in waiting for TBL to be ready and then make a decision. TBL is unlimited and like others it will take them a while to build them out.

If RAZA is even remotely close then you may be able to get it, play it, and then sell it for at that time and still go get a TBL.

Yeah, I have to agree... I mean this is none of our business what Hank wants to do here but since this is a forum... so maybe it is our business!

The preorder thing is pretty fun to watch these days. People bouncing from one preorder to the next preorder.

Preordering unlimited runs seems strange to me as well. Even the so-called limited runs these days are FAR from limited. Preordering seems more of an aggravation versus just waiting for the release. So much changes so quickly... and they will ALWAYS be availble... probably cheaper!

RAZA is the only preorder in the last few years that does make sense to me but who knows... oh well, good old common sense just doesn't seem to be the standard anymore.

Good luck Hank, someone should take advantage of this $100 savings!

Anyway... let's dance!

To me JPop are the only pre orders that have a chance of losing all your money. I would not go near them unless I was made of money. TBL is a much wiser choice all around not to mention the odds are a much better playing game.

Hank is a great guy and fortunately lives a few minutes away from me as well. Best collection I've ever seen and all of his games are in immaculate condition. Can't go wrong in buying anything from Hank.

You're just guessing... Its all a guess... who knows? With as limited as RAZA is a preorder makes sense here versus an unlimited run pin.

Now if you're afraid of losing your money that's a different subject.

Haha yeah I am afraid of losing my money. I would not be afraid of depreciation though. If these do some day actually become hardware instead of vapor, I expect them to retain or gain value.

The "odds" are not even close, sorry, but say what you want about his business practices but Jpop has 3 pins in the top 20 and has worked in pinball for 30 years and evolved into one of the greatest designers ever. Who is DP? Looks like a great first effort, but "odds are" Jpop is the right jockey.

I agree with Teekee, why take the risk and preorder TBL, an unlimited run, unless you just want to play it now, like i do with TWD, when you will no doubt be able to get it cheaper later, like every other pin including TH, ST and TWD

What other pin can you say that about? IF they become hardware. It's always easy, like the early days of Woz and the following 3 yrs. to pile onto to something unknown. Go back and look at all the "it will never see the light of day threads" with Woz.

To each his own.

All pre-orders are a risk. All.

His machines are epically beautiful, but that is where it ends for me. *Personally* I don't like the game play of any of them. The only game he has ever made that I enjoyed playing beyond 25 games was CV and even that game I lost complete interest after about 50 games. TOM and CV were the shortest lived games in my collection and ones that I have no seller's remorse in the least bit. He also hasn't released a game in close to 20 years. On the other hand I can see the DP game on video and from first hand accounts and it looks spectacular. I will take those odds.

Not going to poop on this thread. Bump for a guy who want tbl..

Maybe put an ad up on pinball classifieds? The sentiment here on pinside has turned a bit on it, especially after poor showing this week. Maybe the other sales venues could work better?

And one that is selling RAZA! Giving my "odds" argument so he can get it sold quicker

The other thing with those pins John developed is that he didn't have full control over the whole process, I'm optimistic to see what he does from A to Z, code and all.

He is an artistic genius. If TBL turns out excellent I'll have one down the road. Love the theme, love bowling. Just thrilled we have these options in pinball today!

I really do enjoy your posts ice. You seem like a cool guy but you keep doubling down on stupid everytime you back jpop's aloof business practices.

Omg dude .. Epic !

Taste of reality . Look at Wooly. Couple of guys and an awesome game . Amazing art, layout , toys and code. On the floor being played. If that's not a wake up call then what is. Its over guys . Sadly it's over

I'm not stupid, although it may seem that way!

If you paid attention to everything I've ever said about his "business practices" I'm very critical of him from that standpoint, from day one. And still today, they are terrible! What more can I say.

That doesn't mean I'm not buying the pin Skins! I can see the big picture and am willing to take the risk

What's "over", the end of days What's over is your funding every Stern NIB edition, wisely so.

Statements like that are plain "stupid"

Go buy a Wooly then, I think that's great, oh wait, you won't

Ice, your unwavering belief in JPOP is admirable, but ill advised to us outsiders. Honestly, how long are you truly willing to wait? Just like everything has a price, everybody has a certain level of patience. Where does yours top out? 3yrs, or maybe 5 perhaps? I'm not taken jabs at you, I'm just curious as to what your ceiling is on wait time.

This is a perfectly valid point.

If those guys can put together a fully functioning bad ass pin like WOOLY and have it at Expo in such a short amount of time, it makes you wonder why RAZA shows up as an empty cabinet when that project started earlier.

yup. same with spooky. from announcement to production in about a year.

with no real manufacturing experience.

Some will challenge both those games will be toys compared to the quality jpop has done when he gets there... But u still have a valid point

Ah wooly has nothing on Raza

Except you will get it sooner

I was flabbergasted when I saw RAZA's cab pics (2 different ones) , did you guys see the hinges? Cool.

Well, I am a big Wooly fan but I doubt it was made in a short amount of time. They kept it under the radar until it was to their liking. Also remember the game is based on a virtual pin that was released years ago.

Starting from scratch it could have taken as long as one JPOP game. Trouble is Jpop is making two or three (or more?) in parallel.

Biggest problem with his unveiling is the lack of originality in copying the Martian. Now he may have to start from scratch again...ouch!

It has everything on it. Mere existence !!!!

And for a price that is under a mere $10.5K

I think both machines will be great. Good luck with your sale and I feel confident that JPOP will deliver in the end.

Why do you think that JPop will deliver? You did see the stolen art work on RAZA (the alien)? I mean it's not original or creative in any way! Now once the owners of the art see this, they will demand JPop to remove it immediately. Thus requiring him to start from scratch all over again creating an even longer wait time

The pilfered alien art is the puzzling thing. Why do it? Why would he think no one would notice? His calling card has always been visually stunning games. Copying and pasting flies in the face of what we know about JPop. Did he loose his artists? Something isn't right here.

LOL, No he didn't lose his artists. He has great young guys doing amazing art whenever he needs it. If for some reason the alien needs to be changed, then it will be changed. He's been through lots of different Art revisions and is no stranger to making changes...

I'm glad your lol'ing with your money and not mine. Here's to hoping the clip art gets revised out.

When did you play RAZA?

And to think that I thought that the artwork would be awesome was a given.

Instead he comes up with a clone from a movie? Ouch.

He's got four different ones without the alien too, that's just the one he brought

Predator has longer wait than TBL? Not sure about that.

Hank, people would be tripping over themselves to buy RAZA if Jpop posts some progress and makes some kind of announcement. I suggest you move something else till then.

Well Honch, I waited 3 yrs on Woz and I'm very happy with that one. No worries, I don't mind jabs and the perception is that Jpop backers are all idiots right now. When the reality hits, whenever that is, I'm confident that my belief and support will be rewarded. We've already seen enough to know its true.

I posted on the blog to John re the fallout from expo. I'm pretty sure he's aware of sentiment right now. That said, I have plenty of pinball machines to keep me busy right now, I have decided to let THLE go (at least 98% on that) and keep TWD LE (80% on that one for theme alone) so I'll have another new pin in a few weeks.

With Jpop, I really look at like this. I'm just betting on the jockey and while he might have the horse in last place right now, he's going to blow it out down the stretch! I can wait a long time, RAZA should be out sometime next year. I'm a Jpop fan and I like unique and different stuff.

There will be 50 MG's and 125 RAZA's. Given where the pricing has come up to recently, I consider 10k a "bargain" for such a limited and quality run. Maybe it will be, maybe it won't. I don't care, its worth the risk to me.