Raven - Now no sound


By Topher5000

2 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 weeks ago by Topher5000
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A5 Circuit (resized).jpg
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There are 68 posts in topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 1 year ago

So, now that the game's playing correctly, it's time to get back to the sound.
After it got fixed, there'd be no sound for a couple hours & then the gameplay music would play constantly. Then odd sounds would start, like the explosion sound would start & then become constant. Turning it off & then on or pressing the reset on the soundboard would make it stop, but it would eventually return. No sounds would play during switch hits or when starting the game or when it counted bonus.
Last night the music started, but it would also play the machine gun sound when it spells Raven at the start of the game & when counting bonus. Surprisingly, it would also play sounds when switches were hit. Maybe not all switches & maybe not the correct sounds; I'll have to watch a gameplay video to refresh my memory. It definitely played sounds that didn't belong. Plus, the gameplay music kept playing beneath the sounds. Switching it off & on & pressing the SB reset wouldn't stop it this time though.
The tech was going to try to find a soundboard to try in it, but now I'm not sure it's the SB. He's a half hour to 45 minutes away & I don't want to get him here if it's not. I was new to electronic troubleshooting & repair back when this started & I messed with the A6P1 connector with the game on. Would this corrupt the sound proms? I'm leaning this way. I honestly don't think it's a connector, but it may be the driver board too.

#52 1 year ago

Earlier in the thread you linked this page:

https://www.maaca.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2044&sid=329add4230f5b2dca2d7c8156c178436

Did you follow the section from Atomicboy about testing the data pathway, specifically steps 2 and 3? There's a typo in the instructions for step 2. The pins to ground on Z13 are 2, 4, 6 and 8 for Sound 1, 2, 4 and 8 respectively.

Step 4 is written for System 80, not 80B, so for Sys 80B you'll need to look at Q5 on the driver board. Upstream from Q5 is Z2, a 74175. The signals of interest on that chip are pin 4 (LD1) and pin 9 (DS2).

LD1 is controlled by Z32, a 7417 on the MPU.
DS2 is controlled by Z34, a 7404 on the MPU. Z34 is controlled by Z33, a 74154.

My Raven had problems playing the correct sounds and music. Game start was correct, but when you started playing a ball it would play the game over music or no music at all. Some target sounds were correct, others not. Bonus sound was incorrect as well.

Sound 1, 2, 4 and 8 all checked out ok so that meant my problem was sound 16. Grounding the input on the sound board did not make a sound so I just started shotgunning. I replaced every component in the path all the way back to Z34. Z34 was bad, but a known good chip still didn't fix it. I probed the outputs of Z33 and pin 3 looked a little odd, but I couldn't say definitively that it was bad. Finally, I replaced Z33 and that fixed it. That one output was bad, the chip worked perfectly other than that. I always assumed that if a decoder went bad it would be more catastrophic, but now I know better.

Hope this helps you track down your problem.

#53 1 year ago

Thanks dothedoo, I had forgotten about that (I was trying to get it working). I'll do the tests. I was thinking I needed a logic probe (& learn how to use it). This shouldn't be too hard.
It was suggested on another forum to look at the MPU/driver board harness. The pins look good, but I'll check the continuity of them.
Edit: Just noticed I started this thread 11 months ago. Hard to believe it's been that long.

1 week later
#54 1 year ago

Got around to checking voltages on A5, the aux. power supply.
Pin 5 = -6.53v DC (-12v DC)
Pin 7 = 7.1v AC (12v AC)
Pin 10 = 12.75v DC (12v DC)
I also checked pin 6, the 12v AC input & got 7.3v AC. So this means the problem's not on A5 but on the transformer panel, correct?
Looking at the schematics, it comes from fuse F1. There's nothing else in the path until A12J6/A12P6. I guess it would be a good idea to re-flow the solder on the pins & re-pin the connector. What do I use for that? I have a bunch of Molex trifurcons & bifurcated crimps. Do the old crimps come out the same way as on the single-sided connectors?
Edit: Should I disconnect A12J6 & check continuity to A5P1?

1 week later
#55 1 year ago

I found out that I had to read between pins 6 & 7, not 6 to ground & 7 to ground. Reading them this way I get 13.1v.
Since the reading between pins 6 & 7 seem okay, I guess CR1 thru CR4 are good. I was going to check the cap, resistor & Zener diode on the circuit so I read up on how to check them. The cap needs an ESR meter & the resistor needs to be taken out of circuit, but I don't have the equipment or experience to do this. Should I just have them replaced? I can't imagine it would be too expensive.
I've attached a picture of the circuit schematic.
Oh, could someone please explain what the different components in this circuit do? I'm guessing the cap provides a constant voltage & the resistor drops the -14.5v to -12v, but I don't know what the Zener diode does, or how the cap or diode work with them going to ground.

A5 Circuit (resized).jpg

#56 1 year ago

I unplugged the sound board connector, A6P1, & checked pin 5 of the aux. power supply to ground & got -6.56v.
I plugged A6P1 back in & on the aux. power supply, I checked resistor R7 to ground. The banded side read 13.7v & the other -6.57v. Checking the ohms of R7, I got 0.1.
Checking in diode mode, VR1 read -421 in one direction & 1 in the other. CR1 read 944 & 412; CR2 921 & 444; CR3 974 & 510; CR4 read 908 & 422.
Does this mean R7 is bad?
When I first it on, there's no sound. After playing a few games, it'll start to play the game music non-stop & sometimes make game sounds. I don't know if this means anything.

1 week later
#57 1 year ago

I had C7 & VR1 replaced on the aux power supply. I now get -12.26v DC on A6P1 pin 13 & 12.8v DC on pin 14, -12.25vDC on pin 5 of A5P1 & testing R7, I get -15.9v DC on one end & -12.26v DC on the other, so the voltages are good.
Unfortunately, there's still no sound, although it may come back after warm up. I'll have to wait.
I guess I'll start going through the procedure to test the ICs. Sounds like fun!

1 month later
#58 11 months ago

I finally got around to "Testing the Data Pathway".
I jumped to ground pins 2, 4, 6, & 8 of Z13 on the driver board & got nothing. The pins on A3J5 look good, but that's the one single-sided connector I haven't re-pinned because I mistakenly ordered a 7-pin connector housing instead of an 8 pin. I'll cut it off & re-pin it.
Pin 8 of that connector is for solenoid 8 & pin 2 is L2. I can't find another reference in the schematics to sol. 8 & the only reference to L2 is coming from the bottom cabinet to a motor relay. Could someone tell me what those are for? It may help me trace the problem.
I'll check Z13 when I get home. Since the game works fine other than no sound, I have a feeling it's Z13 that's my problem.
Edit: I found that solenoid 8 is the knocker. I'll set it to match instead of extra ball to see if the knocker works.

#59 11 months ago

I went through steps 2, 3, 5 & 6 and got absolutely nothing.
I disconnected everything from the diode board & checked Z31 in diode mode. All the pins except no. 4 were in the vicinity of 0.4 to 0.7. Pin 4 measured .015. Does this mean the chip's bad? Would this stop all the sounds?

#60 11 months ago

Need more info here. You need to start at the sound input pins on the sound board and see if you can make them produce sound. Then you need to test from the outputs of Z13 on driver board. Then inputs on Z13 and so on. Where is your first failure point?

#61 11 months ago

Sorry, I'm learning as I go. How do you check the sound input pins on the SB? Most of what I read refers to sys80, not sys80b.
Edit: I used to get the game music playing constantly, but it would take about 3 games before it started. It hasn't made a sound in a couple of weeks.

#62 11 months ago

I was reading on how to check the sound/speech board on a system 80. Is checking a sys80b the same procedure, grounding pins 1 thru 8?
Edit: I'll check the SB, but I really don't think it's the problem. I was getting constant gameplay music & game sounds up until a couple weeks ago. It would take until about the third game though, almost as if it had to warm up.

#63 11 months ago
Quoted from Topher5000:

Is checking a sys80b the same procedure, grounding pins 1 thru 8?

Yes, but for Raven you should only expect to hear sounds when grounding 4 of the 8 pins. Follow the instructions in post #52. You can start at the driver board if you're confident the sound board is ok.

#64 11 months ago

I went through steps 2, 3, 5 & 6 but skipped step 4.
I'm not 100% sure that the sound board isn't at fault, but it did play all the sounds before, just not at the correct time. For instance, it would play the explosion sound without any breaks, while the game music would play non-stop, even in attract mode. For the longest time it made no sound at all, then the sound came back, now it's gone again.
I'll recheck the voltages at the connector & then check the board. in my newbie-ness, I did mistakenly pull the connector with the machine running, so there's a good possibility that I corrupted something.

#65 11 months ago

I grounded pins 1, 2, 3, 5, & 8 and got no sounds. Pins 4, 6 & 7 don't have any wires in them.
I'm not sure what to do now. Get another SB? Find someone to burn the sound ROMs?

1 month later
#66 9 months ago

While in attract mode it was resetting, where the display would flash & some relay would click, so I checked the 5v at A1J1. I know I set it to 5v, but it was 4.8v, so I set it to 4.96v. When I did this, it made the explosion sound so I went through the sound checks.

It made one sound when I grounded pin 5 in connector A6J1 & another sound when I grounded pin 2 on chip Z13 on the driver board. None of the other tests did anything. The sounds occurred when I took the lead off the pins.

Is this of any significance? I was going to take the driver board in & have Z13 socketed & replaced & if that didn't work, call the tech & see if he can find his sound board to try. Does this narrow it down any?

5 months later
#67 4 months ago

Wow, has it been that long? This just wasn't a priority for me. At the end of March, my brother got flesh-eating disease in his arm & nearly died, then while he was in the hospital, he got MRSA & bedsores. They sent him home with what everybody deems substandard care. His bed sores got infected, community care didn't notice it for days, even though it stank, & when he was readmitted to the hospital, each had progressed to the next stage. He had to have surgery & again nearly died.
He's doing fine now, so I'm going to get back into the sound problem.
In the meantime, I've been doing a lot of reading. I'm tired of blindly shot-gunning it, although I think all that's left is Z13 on the driver board, so I'm going to get a logic probe amazon.com link »

@acebathound has a good tutorial for them at techdose & there's also @terryb 's thread which has a lot of good questions & answers. I've tried to follow the circuit paths in the schematics & can probably figure out what to check, plus there's the ICs I had socketed & replaced.
I'll report back when I get the probe & take some measurements. I'll need to ask what should be hi/lo/pulsed at the very least. It may be a week or two before I get the probe though.

4 months later
#68 21 days ago

Pinsider @erak brought his friend's SB over on Saturday & it's definitely my SB. Bought the board & now it's working!
I guess what happened was I re-pinned the connector backwards, sent 12v somewhere & fried the board. I thought it was working as every now & then the gameplay music would play. I then proceeded to chase my tail.
Learned a lot along the way & would do it differently now.
Thanks for everybody's help!

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