Raven - Now no sound


By Topher5000

1 year ago


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There are 66 posts in topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 1 year ago

Fired up the game Thursday & there was no sound but after reseating the sound board connector, the sound came back. Last night, I couldn't get the sound working. I imagine I'll have to repin the connector or at least reflow the solder. Is there something else I should check first? If I need to repin, what connectors should I get?
Also, how does the SB function? There are two square buttons. One gives a high pitched beep & the other gives a lower pitched beep. The LED blinks reasonably slow. Is this normal or should it be steady?

#2 1 year ago

slow blinking is normal

#3 1 year ago

Replace the trim pot on the power supply board if you havent already. The check output voltage before plugging it back into the board connector.

Ground mod too.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from erak:

Ground mod too.

Agree...

Just got back into owning a couple system 80B game...the ground mod is a must.

#5 1 year ago

The trim pot had crossed my mind. Where would I check the output?
The game hasn't had the ground mods done. I'll try to do that tomorrow & go from there. Replacing the trim pot's above my skill level, so if it comes to that, I'll call somebody.
What are the two buttons for?
Looking at the manual, which board is the 'power supply board'? There's the power supply, A2, & the aux. power supply, A5, but neither have a trim pot. What trim pot should I order?

#6 1 year ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hollywood-heat-sound-issues

Here you go, a complete list of 80b voltages.
Pinouts, locations of components etc.
Trim pot pics.

#7 1 year ago

Thanks! I'll get into it more tomorrow (hockey & beer tonight). Should be good reading.
The service manual has the voltages for the different pins, but I didn't see a mention of the trim pot in the manual. Thanks for the link.
Love learning stuff here.

#8 1 year ago

I looked at John's Jukes ground mod directions, but they're a little confusing to me, so I'll follow the pinwiki guide. It's connecting each board to the 5v power supply heatsink (after sanding of any coating) & then running a wire to the ground strap (on Raven, mounted to the side of the cabinet), correct?
Is 18ga wire enough, or should I use 16ga?

#9 1 year ago

I attempted to do the ground mods last night using the pinwiki photos. The attachment point for the soundboard seemed odd. Should I scrape the connection point? I didn't do the aux. power board as there wasn't a photo for it. Still have to do the mods at the transformer. It was getting late & don't think I have suitable ring connectors.
I checked the voltages on the power board (J2) & was getting 5.1v. I'll have to check the voltages on the SB connector (A6P1 according to the manual). I think I was getting 4.6v at pin 1 which should be 12v. The rest seemed off too. I'll check them tonight.
After powering on, I still get no sound. I've been having a problem with missing digits on the display, but the ground mods seemed to have fixed that, so hopefully I did okay. Perhaps it's a bad connection on the SB.
I'll try to get a new trimpot tomorrow.
The day before one sniper stopped popping up & it still doesn't, but that may be unrelated.
The pinout voltages in the Hollywood Heat topic are confusing to me. Just to be sure, should they be:
Pin 1 +12vDC
Pin 3 -12vDC (+12vAC?)
Pin 4 +12vAC
Pin 5 +5vDC
Pin 13 -12vDC
Pin 14 +12vDC
Pin 15 +5vDC

I'm pretty sure pin 10 in unused.

#10 1 year ago

Okay, I checked the voltages & I think they're wonky.

Pin 1 3.5
Pin 2 3.5
3 0.4
4 Spare
5 3.5
6 & 7 Spare
8 1.2
9 3.4
10 Spare
11 28.2
12 -0.1
13 16.4
14 36.2
15 4.7
16 Spare
17 -0.1
18 -0.1
19 Spare

Some of them, the higher voltages I think, may not be stable & were falling.
Note that I haven't done the transformer ground mod or replaced the trim pot. And the missing display digits reared it's ugly head again.

#11 1 year ago

I'm worried that this is over my head & am thinking of getting someone in to take a look at it. Should I do the ground mods at the transformer first? When I did them on the boards, I ran the ground from the PS to the ground strap at the lower right of the head instead of to the cab. Is this sufficient?
If anyone know someone in the Niagara Region that does pinball repairs, let me know. Erak, I'll PM you.

#12 1 year ago

Just as long as you have them all connected to ground it'll be good. It doesn't matter when they hit ground, as long as they do. If you didn't do the ground mod at the transformer panel, do that and then reassess. That one is easy.

#13 1 year ago

Remove power supply board and flip it over, look for cold solder joints on the pins, reheat and add a bit of solder, every system 80 I bought had cold solder joints there. My Genesis sound quit working for that reson.

#14 1 year ago

Thanks guys. I'll take a look at that tonight.

1 week later
#15 1 year ago
Quoted from Topher5000:

I looked at John's Jukes ground mod directions, but they're a little confusing to me, so I'll follow the pinwiki guide. It's connecting each board to the 5v power supply heatsink (after sanding of any coating) & then running a wire to the ground strap (on Raven, mounted to the side of the cabinet), correct?
Is 18ga wire enough, or should I use 16ga?

I'm sorry you found my instructions a bit confusing. It you don't mind expanding on that I would be happy to rework the page so it is clearer.

As for the ground wire gauge, you don't need to run another wire down to the ground strap, if you use the green wires that already go to the power supply common they are already firmly connected to the cabinet ground strap. If you do want to run another wire, 18 gauge is plenty - no real current is flowing, we are trying to balance the common/ground connections so they are all at the same potential.

John :-#)#

#16 1 year ago

Hi John.
It's not that the instructions are confusing, it's that I have no electronic background so I basically need someone to hold my hand & show me exactly what to do.
So far I've done the ground mods including at the transformer panel. I've bought a new trim pot, LM-338k regulator & a 50v 10,000uF cap. I'll get those installed & go from there.

1 week later
#17 1 year ago

How hard is it to replace the trimpot & LM338K? I've got a cheap soldering iron & a solder sucker, but the sucker's kind of a PITA. Should I get a soldering wick? Anything else I'd need? I've got some good solder that I got from Newark14.

#18 1 year ago

without a rework station, I'd recommend cutting the IC and trim pot off the board. Then, with tweezers and the solder sucker, remove the legs. Lastly heat and suck the solder out of each hole. This is the easiest way to do it. If you try to suck the solder out first, then remove the components you'll have problems getting all the legs free and can very easily lift and destroy traces by trying to pry the components out. Also, any time you replace an IC, I recommend you install a socket to make it easy if you ever need to change it again.

#19 1 year ago

Pinsider Erak came over on the weekend & took a look at it (thanks Erak! - much appreciated!). He replaced the 10,000uf cap, the LM338k regulator & the trimpot, but still no sound. Erak checked the bridge rectifiers & one of them tested bad. After some reading, it looks like I need three 35A 400v rectifiers. Is there anything special I need to get, or do I just ask for 35A 400v lug connection rectifiers?

2 weeks later
#20 1 year ago

I replaced the bridge rectifiers & no change.
Erak suggested checking the voltages at the transformer itself.
With the fuses out I get F1 (sound PS - should be 12v) 13.7v; F2 (PS 11v) 12.7v; F3 (displays 32v) 38.3v; F4 (solenoids 27v) 30.3v; F5 (controlled lamps 8v) 6.4v; F6 (playfield illumination 6.3v) 4.8v. I checked the other sides of the fuse holders & all were dead except F6 which had a reading of 2.8v. Seems odd. That & F5 & F6 being low.
I put the fuses back & checked & the voltages are F1 - 7.6v; F2 - 6.8v; F3 - 22.1v; F4 - 15.7v; F5 - 5.1v; F6 - 3.6v. What would drop the voltages so much? Could the transformer itself be pooched?

#21 1 year ago

Bump.
Anyone have an idea why F5 & F6 measure low even with the fuses out? Could it be bad solder joints on the fuse block? Also, I have no idea why the voltages would drop when the fuses are installed or what's causing the 2.8v on the other side of F6. The only thing I can think of is the remote battery holder.

#22 1 year ago

In your first post you said after reseating the connector the sound started working, did you rep in the wires on the connector? does the game work right now and your sound is your only issue?

#23 1 year ago

I haven't touched the connectors. I'm not sure what you mean by 'rep in the wires'.
In attract mode, the insert lights will chase down towards the flippers & then the flashers go off. Most of the time the GI lights will go out during this, but it didn't do it last night, or the night before, I think (they're not supposed to). The GI was also going out when the start button was pressed & 'Raven' comes up on the display. That & the sound are the only problems. No missing digits on the display anymore after doing the ground mods.

#24 1 year ago

Sorry I meant repin or on Gottlieb it would be new edge connectors on the plug going to the sound board.

#25 1 year ago

Yeah, I was thinking about the connectors. If there was someone near me with a sys80b, I'd ask if I could plug my sound board in to check if that's working first. Quite possible I fried something with my inexperience.
Erak sent me a link to a maaca thread https://www.maaca.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2044&sid=fbd677bce6aa7c7ac15a965ce55b9c89&start=25 about a no sound problem & it had instructions on troubleshooting it, but I don't think the power supply board's getting the correct voltage. I think Erak measured 7.4v when it should have been 12v & now I'm measuring low on F5 & F6. I'll recheck the PS voltage & C1 on the MPU & see what I get.
I'm learning though & that's a good thing. I had no idea how to read a schematic before & now I can at least find what voltages go where.

#26 1 year ago

Does the game work now, and your only having problems with no sound?

#27 1 year ago

Yep.

#28 1 year ago

check the connector at the sound board and look where the edge connectors are and see if you see any bent down where they wouldn't make contact with the trace on the board, if so you would need to order a crimper and some edge connectors and redo the connector.

#29 1 year ago

Thanks, I'll look into it.
Edit: I'm still having a problem with the GI lighting going out when the inserts chase down in attract mode or when the start button is pressed. I'm pretty sure that there's a voltage problem. I'm going to look into that more this week. A nieghbour suggested measuring the taps of the transformer to make sure it's putting out the correct voltages.

3 weeks later
#30 1 year ago
Quoted from crlush:

check the connector at the sound board and look where the edge connectors are and see if you see any bent down where they wouldn't make contact with the trace on the board, if so you would need to order a crimper and some edge connectors and redo the connector.

Soooo.... I finally got around to doing some trouble shooting. The voltages at the transformer don't seem correct, but the PS is putting out 5.17v & the game plays fine, so I think you're correct here.
How do the pins come out of the connector? The wires go into it at a 90d angle. I suppose it's easier to get a new connector & crimps, snip the wires, fasten the crimps & insert into the connector. Is this what most people do?
I'll contact Ed at GPE about what I need to get. Is there anything else I should get just in case? It's quite possible that I fried something on the sound board.

#31 1 year ago

Adjust the trim pot on the powers supply so you get 5vDC exactly.

On the sound board, does the red LED blink, stay solid lit, or not on at all? Any sound after pushing the manual reset button on the sound board (sw2)? Check the reset line (pin 9 on A6).

#32 1 year ago

I had read somewhere to set it to 5.2v as the MPU can pull the voltage down. I'll adjust it.
The LED blinks about once a second & it beeps when pressing the reset & the test buttons. I'll check the reset line tonight. What should I be reading? I'm not good as schematics & the manual doesn't really tell me anything.

#33 1 year ago

I do suppose 5.17 is within tolerance. It'd be worse to have it under 5. So maybe where it's at is fine.

Blinking LED = operating normal, so maybe not the reset line.

The curious thing is that it didn't work, worked, and then didn't work again. With the LED indicating normal operation and the output voltages from the power supply being good, it could be somewhere in the audio out line (last pin on A6), a problem with the "auxiliary power supply" (audio amplifier) or even the sound potentiometer by the coin door.

gtb_sound_chart_(resized).jpg

#34 1 year ago

Could be the audio amp. I didn't know that that's the auxiliary power supply. If I turn the pot by the coin door up, the hum gets louder. Would this happen if the amp's not working?
I think crlush is right about it being the connector though. When I reseated it the first time, the audio came back on.

#35 1 year ago

I was playing last night & I noticed that the helicopter starts up at times when it shouldn't. I think it's only supposed to start when you hit the spinner. I paid attention to it last night & it started when the ball went down the left inlane, hit a standup target, bounced around the pop bumpers... It didn't do it every time though. It's been doing this a while now but I didn't give it any thought. I'm not sure whether it started before the sound went out, after I did the ground mods, etc. I'll start a new thread because I don't know if this & the no sound problem are related.
I also had a bulb, a Comet LED strip, changing brightness, but that's probably a bad connection on the socket.

#36 1 year ago

Now that I'm learning more of this stuff, I'm finally getting back into this.
I checked the voltages at the aux. power supply & the sound board. The soundboard had 4.95v on pins 15 & 16 (should be 5v), -12.4v on pin 13 & +12.3v on pin 14 so that's good. The aux. power supply was fine except pin 9 (+24v unregulated) was 36.4v & when I checked continuity (is that what it's called? I was on the ohm setting) from pin 8 to where I ran the grounds on the power supply, I got 1.1 ohms. Shouldn't this be 0 ohms?
I'm going to order some molex crimps & a crimper from G-P-E & redo at least the connector for the sound board. In the meantime I'm going to recheck my ground mods & run them to the ground strap bolt in the bottom right of the cabinet instead of the PS.
If it still doesn't work, I'm going to assume that either the sound board or the aux. power supply has a problem. There's a repair place reasonably close by so I'll call them & see if they can check the boards out if need be.

#37 1 year ago

IDK why, but likewise on my 80b, even though the power supply is putting out 5v and the "5v good" led on my Swemmer MPU is lit, both the driver board (ni-wumpf) and sound board show 4.95v in the area where there should 5v logic.

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from mr2xbass:

both the driver board (ni-wumpf) and sound board show 4.95v in the area where there should 5v logic.

That is perfectly normal. When the boards are connected and there is a load on the circuit, it'll always dip a little.

1 month later
#39 1 year ago

I got some connector housings from GPE & on the weekend repinned the SB connector, A6P1. It didn't make a difference, but later it played the gameplay music, albeit constantly, even during attract mode. Switching it off & on got rid of it.
I repinned the aux. sound board connector & when I turned it on I got a loud hum & no displays. I checked the wiring & I have it correct, so I unplugged the SB connector & the game plays again. I checked the wiring of that & it's correct.
The loud hum leads me to believe that there's a bad ground somewhere. I did the ground mods but I'm going to redo the SB ground directly to the ground strap at the bottom right of the head. I'll also continue repinning. Could there be something else wrong? Perhaps with the SB? I guess I should re-check the voltages.
Another thing that happens is that the GI lights go out when certain things happen, such as when it's counting bonus or when 'Raven' is coming up at the start of the game. It stops doing this after a while though. Could this be related? What would cause this?

#40 1 year ago

I was playing last night when the display went out & everything except the lights went dead. It occurred to me that the MPU probably isn't getting enough voltage (I'm new at this). I'm going to redo my ground mods so they go to the ground lug at the bottom right, reflow the solder of the PS (A2) pins, check the voltages & adjust if necessary & repin the single sided connectors. Hopefully that should fix everything. I'm not going to do the double-sided connectors as they're IDC & I'm unsure that I'll be able to use the Molex crimps in them. I did get the crimps from GPE for them though.

#41 1 year ago

Crap. Turns out I didn't buy a 5-pin connector housing for the MPU. It's got a couple wires that go to the 5v PS. Looks like I'm going to have to try fitting Molex crimps into IDC housings. I have some 0.156" Bifurcated crimps. Hopefully those fit better than the standard ones.

#42 1 year ago

Molex crimps should fit fine in the old IDC housing, I do it all the time.

Steve
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

#43 1 year ago

Good to know. Thanks Steve.

1 week later
#44 1 year ago

Eh, I give up. I repinned connectors until I ran out of crimps, I redid the ground mods, reflowed the solder on A2J1 & A2J2 & set the voltage at A1J1 to 5.05v but nothing changed. Actually, something did - after repinning A1J6 the pop-up snipers stopped registering being hit.
I found that the driver board had burnt & been fixed https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sys-80b-burnt-driver-board#post-3117564 . I can't do board work so I'll have to have it looked at.
Time to call the big guns I guess.

2 weeks later
#45 1 year ago

I've been repining connectors when I get motivated, but so far no luck.
I was talking to my neighbour & asked about following the wire colour from one board to the next & he said that you can use the connector callout instead. Say I want to know where A6J1 goes (or comes from), I'd look at the schematics of the other boards for XXJ1. Good to know. I wasn't looking forward to following wire colours if it came to that.

1 week later
#46 1 year ago

I've been repining connectors but still no change. I'm beginning to think I'm on a snipe hunt. I have to recheck the voltages though. I'm getting 5v at A1J1 & at A6P1 but was getting 3.66v at A3J4. The snipers not resetting was due to a crimp that wasn't seated fully.
One thing that's happening is that the GI goes out when in attract mode & the inserts chase down & the flashers go off, when it's spelling Raven after pressing start & when it counts your bonus. It gets better though as it warms up. After a while, it'll only go out when the flashers go off in attract, then it won't happen at all, then it'll come back.
This leads me to believe there's a bad board, maybe bad caps? There's a place relatively close that advertises on Kijiji ad nauseam about repairing pinballs so I'll see if they can check the boards. I spoke to them once before & it was apparent that he didn't want to work on Gottliebs though.
Are there any questions I should ask when I call, such as if they have a system 80b that they can swap the boards into as a quick check of which one has the problem?

2 weeks later
#47 1 year ago

I'm going to have to start re-crimping the double-sided connectors on my Raven. I bought some bifurcated crimps from GPE, but I didn't get enough. Can the regular 08-52-0072 crimps be used?
I'm really, really not looking forward to having to pull the old crimps out of the housings. Are the double-sided connectors a huge pain? The single-sided weren't too bad.

#48 1 year ago

Saw TerryB's article ( http://www.pinrepair.com/connect/ ) on Molex connectors & crimping & he recommended Molex trifurcated crimps, PN 08-52-0113. I wish I had seen that article sooner. He recommended those instead of the 08-52-0072. I'm assuming these will work in the double-sided housings. Digikey.ca has them 100 for $16.28 or 250 for $36.02.
Oh & Googling what bifurcated meant helped too.

3 weeks later
#49 11 months ago

I just ordered some trifurcated crimps from Digikey so they should be here tomorrow. I'll get some wire & try the harness between the MPU & driver board.
What size wire do I need? 18ga? I've had trouble getting the old IDC crimps out of single-sided connectors, having to pry them out instead of pulling. Are the double-sided harder?

1 week later
#50 11 months ago

The guide mentions to buy lots of the trifurcons, but Ken Layton pointed out to me that the trifurcon crimps are for games that use pin connections, like Ballys, not edge connectors like Gottlieb. Darn. I also found an old thread that mentions that too. The bifurcated crimps are no longer available, so the standard crimps, 08-52-0072, are what to use. Something to keep in mind for beginners like me.
On a side note, if there's anyone local who needs the trifurcons, let me know

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