(Topic ID: 179848)

Random resets during play and attract - Sys 11b (Jokerz)

By PinKopf

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 10 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by GRUMPY
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

Hi guys, I've got a project Jokerz that I'm trying to bring back to 100%.

Wanted to get some feedback on some random resets that started cropping up now when I thought she was running pretty well.

Both in gameplay randomly, mainly after the game gets "warmed up" from a solid game or two, I'll get a reset mid game, no common action occurring, sometimes seemingly nothing happening, followed by resets in attract mode. Can't finish a game at that point once is starts resetting.

I've done the following:
- Replaced the bridge rectifiers on the aux board, main psu, and backbox.
- Replaced caps on main psu. This was a Great Plains kit, c1, c3, c7, c8, c9, c10, c12
- Replaced the diodes on both flippers

Checking voltages, on the psu board I get a rock solid 5.23v, a lightly fluctuating 11.3v-11.7v for +12, and a -14.5ish for negative. At the +5 tp on the mpu I'm getting 5.18v or so, and similar at pin 3 on the 6802 cpu dips. BUT, at pin 20 on the pias I'm getting 3.6v. I suspect that is likely a problem, might be dipping during play, etc (don't have clips small enough to clip on there and monitor during play though.) [EDIT - I was measuring the wrong pin like an idiot, the 3.6v was on pin 21 of the pias. I'm assuming this is not the problem.]

Is that reading actually a problem as I'm thinking? Then if so, I'm not sure what that is then indicating is the likely issue.

For a background, this board does have some alkaline damage. I've cleaned up and socketed u42 (u42 failure at boot), previous owner did u41. I've buzzed out all connections from the main pias. Game was running great after that, for several weeks worth some long play testing, so I feel like this is a new problem.

The reset circuit area on the board has some corrosion, that I am planning to strip and clean along with the traces that were under the battery area. I've ordered parts to do the reset generator replacement/retrofit from pinwiki there which looks like it will simplify the repair. But my understanding is that problems with the reset circuit would mainly impact bootup, despite the name and the fact that I'm having "reset"/reboot problems.

Am I wasting time looking elsewhere for this problem, until addressing that reset circuit area of the board? That'll be my next step, but I'm wondering if I need to address something else while I'm at it.

Oh, I also ordered the diodes to replace on the aux pwr board, for all of the the other solenoids, but with the resets occurring in attract as well, I'm thinking it's not them... I'll likely wait to try replacing those.

#2 7 years ago

3.6 VDC is too low at the PIAs. This needs to be a minimum of 4.75 VDC. Since you have 5.18 VDC at the test point, and this test point is contiguous with pin 20 on the PIAs, there is no way you can have this reading unless there is a partial break or high resistance in the traces. There should be less than 15 ohms between the test point and any PIA Vcc. You probably have corrosion damage on a trace somewhere. Use a proper jumper wire of about 22 guage from the test point to pin 20 of the nearest PIA on the reverse side of the board, just take your time to make sure everything is right before plugging in, then retest and see that you have between 4.75 and 5.25VDC at the PIAs

#3 7 years ago

Alright, well that's a little embarrassing, I was checking at pin 21, to get the 3.6v... I am only measuring .6 ohm between the test point and actual pin 20, so that doesn't appear to be the issue.

I had some free time here so I've just started removing everything with corrosion damage from the reset area before seeing that, so I can't check voltage atm, I expect it's fine then... Will have the parts to rebuild the area by the weekend hopefully. Figured it was time to bite the bullet and fix the corrosion properly before it gets any worse... May find this wasn't related to the resets, but I guess it needs to be done.

#4 7 years ago

Before pic attached of what I'm working with - not the greatest condition.

Trying to learn on this one and avoid buying a rottendog replacement. We'll see.

20170129_142410 (resized).jpg20170129_142410 (resized).jpg

#5 7 years ago

20170129_142355 (resized).jpg20170129_142355 (resized).jpg

#6 7 years ago

Ah, OK I see. Still, it's a crapshoot. The fact that it is working at all speaks for itself. The problem is reliability, especially long term reliability. Some components might just have surface corrosion. Microscopically, some might have corrosion inside the component bodies, where the leads enter. It could run for a while, and then have problems later. A new board bypasses all that. Or, you can clean it, maybe replace some suspect components and hope for the best. That's just what happens with corrosion boards on System 11s. I have repaired a few corrosion boards on early Ballys and never had a problem later. On Systeem 11s, I have passed buying if they've had corrosion on them. Good luck.

#7 7 years ago

Someone has done a lot of repairs on this board. You may be wasting your time on this one.

1 week later
#8 7 years ago

Preliminary results are positive. I removed all components from the reset circuit area of the board and cleaned it up, replaced srcs 1-3, and installed the reset generator replacement and the 4 or so other components covered on pinwiki's guide.

Note if you're doing the same, and not installing nv ram, it appears the instructions are incomplete on pinwiki - in addition to those components listed, you also need to reinstall D2 or you'll get adjust failure messages as battery power is not making to u25 to keep the memory set...

I also found some corrosion on the main cpu socket, so I removed and replaced it.

So far the game is back up and running, zero reliability issues thus far, though I need to stress test it and play for more than the 45 minutes or so I could get in today.

#9 7 years ago

I'm sure this is not the best job, but here's an after pic (before I discovered D2 was needed and added that back...)

I also obviously sanded down the traces there, to remove corrosion, that run user the original battery area, up to the srcs. Cleared over them afterwards.

20170208_143725 (resized).jpg20170208_143725 (resized).jpg

#10 7 years ago

Nice job!

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