(Topic ID: 261726)

Radical! Flashers Locked On, please help

By Chosen_S

4 years ago


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  • 49 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by GRUMPY
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#1 4 years ago

Hey y’all,

Please help if you can, I’d really appreciate it.

I was experimenting with my radical machine and sent 50 V through a 25 V line. I Think I ran the 50 V power from the drop target it’s to the 01A outhole solenoid. yes, I know I feel stupid now. Now flashers 04C, and 01C are locked on when powering up the machine.

I replaced U38 and U54 PIA’s, and U28; LS374.
As well as transistors q32, and q29.

Where do I look next? I’ve been working on this for about a week and a half trying to figure out the problem. I could really use some help. Thank you
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#2 4 years ago

I unplugged J5 on the aux power board

Went into coil test..

When I went into coil test, relay1 on the aux power supply started sparking blue

I turned the machine off.

Now when I turn the machine on relay one Sparks blue until I turn the machine off.

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

I replaced U38 and U54 PIA’s, and U28; LS374.
As well as transistors q32, and q29.

Why did you replace these parts?

#4 4 years ago

I would TEST Q-33, Q-29, Q-20 and Q-24 on the Cpu board. I would also test Q-7, D-4, D-1, D-45, D-46, D-35 and D-36 on the aux power supply. And lastly I would check the size of the fuses in F-2a, F-2c and F-4 for a correct amperage.

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Why did you replace these parts?

I was follow the schematics for the flow, and thought if the transistors are bad, replace them... then it did not fix , so I did the pias next from a friends recommendation and then the U28 because it goes between the transistors and the pia’s... I wasn’t tingling of the aux board at the time

#6 4 years ago

Lets test the components first and see where this takes us. So you jumped the violet/yellow wire on the drops to where exactly, to the brown wire of the out hole coil or the violet/brown wire?

#7 4 years ago

I jumped the yellow with violet stripe wire to the violet with brown stripe

Basically the 50 V line that is on the snake drop targets, to the small wire on the outhole coil, in a roundabout sort of way through the coil I have attached to the VUK.

The wire I connected them with was still connected somehow, I removed it and now the snake drop targets lock on when I turn the machine on. But the relay is not going crazy anymore. It must have had a short with that extra wire hanging out that was connected to the outhole coil. There are no more rogue, or modified wires anywhere else in the game. Everything has been removed

#8 4 years ago

I just turned the machine on and the drop target coil did not lock on until I put the machine in coil test.

I turned the machine off

I turned the machine back on and the drop target coil did not lock on until the flashers started flashing in attract mode

#9 4 years ago

Test everything in post #4. You are going to find a couple of shorted parts.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

As well as transistors q32

Is this a typo? Or did you replace Q-33?

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Is this a typo? Or did you replace Q-33?

Typo, I replaced q-33

I also discovered fuse F2A on the aux board was blown

#12 4 years ago

Replaced fuse at f2a

The fuses at f2a, f2c, f4 are all correct amperages

All of the tip102’s are good

I’m going to need to learn how to test 4401’s and tip36c’s to test them

#13 4 years ago

Tested the tip 36c’s

Red lead to tab, black lead to each outside leg

All read .7-.5 ohm

Black lead on tab, red lead to center leg

All read .000 ohm

#14 4 years ago

2n4401 will test the same as a tip 102 but the leads are not in same order. Both are npn. Q-7 tests opposite as it is a PNP. I can't remember what the lead order is so you look it up. I am betting that Q -7 is shorted and some diodes will need to be changed too.

#15 4 years ago

Just as I thought Q-7 is shorted. Cut it off the board to stop the coil locking on. Then test the diodes I listed.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

2n4401 will test the same as a tip 102 but the leads are not in same order. Both are npn. Q-7 tests opposite as it is a PNP. I can't remember what the lead order is so you look it up. I am betting that Q -7 is shorted and some diodes will need to be changed too.

I’ll study it and test again tomorrow at lunchtime. Thank you for the direction and help. I’ll report back ASAP

#17 4 years ago

Q33 good: black lead on tab, red leads on outer legs

.78, .0, .67

Q29 (questionable): red lead on center leg
.8, .0, .257

Q20 : .8, .0, .5

Q24: .6, .0, .58

Q7: .75, .0, .59

I’ve tested every diode on the aux board, I’m guessing there are false readings... I’m checking my other system 11 to compare

Edit, I’m getting the same readings on the diodes from the other system 11, TTR

#18 4 years ago

Q7 cut off

D1: black lead on non banded side, red on banded side
No current : good

D4: flashes current for a quick moment, then no current

The rest of the diodes, no current

#19 4 years ago

Ball lock flasher 01C is now locked on

Q29 possible suspect, Q33 tests good

#20 4 years ago

Cut Q29 off, powered on machine
R7 Resistor burned up - smoke

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

R7 Resistor burned up - smoke

What board?

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

What board?

aux power board

#23 4 years ago

If you want to do power on test then you will need to disconnect 1J-11 and 1J-12 from the CPU board. For me when I change a power transistor like Q-33 I always replace the driver transistor and the coil diode as a group to avoid having a part go bad the next time you turn on the power. So for Solenoid #1 I would replace Q-29, Q-33 and D-1 as a set.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

If you want to do power on test then you will need to disconnect 1J-11 and 1J-12 from the CPU board. For me when I change a power transistor like Q-33 I always replace the driver transistor and the coil diode as a group to avoid having a part go bad the next time you turn on the power. So for Solenoid #1 I would replace Q-29, Q-33 and D-1 as a set.

I’ll replace them ... when I replaced q-33, I had replaced q-29, just not D-1

#25 4 years ago

For solenoid #4 I would replace Q-20, Q-24 and D-4, but since this also a 50 volt coil you will have also replace Q-7 and R-7.
The I would remove J-11 and J-12 and turn on the power. Then I would check the resistance from ground to each header pin of J-11 and J-12. All should read a high resistance of .500 meg ohms or higher. If any read low then there is more work to be done on the cpu board before moving on to testing the aux power supply.

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

For solenoid #4 I would replace Q-20, Q-24 and D-4, but since this also a 50 volt coil you will have also replace Q-7 and R-7.
The I would remove J-11 and J-12 and turn on the power. Then I would check the resistance from ground to each header pin of J-11 and J-12. All should read a high resistance of .500 meg ohms or higher. If any read low then there is more work to be done on the cpu board before moving on to testing the aux power supply.

I’ll get on all of it tonight... thank you

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:The I would remove J-11 and J-12 and turn on the power. Then I would check the resistance from ground to each header pin of J-11 and J-12. All should read a high resistance of .500 meg ohms or higher.

Do I check the resistance with the machine power on?

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Do I check the resistance with the machine power on?

With the connectors disconnected, then yes.

#29 4 years ago

Can a 1n4003 use a sub of 1n4004?

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Can a 1n4003 use a sub of 1n4004?

Sorry, spec sheet says yes... only difference is 1n4003 has a 200 V suppression, and 1n4004
Has 400 v suppression

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Can a 1n4003 use a sub of 1n4004?

No, but you buy 1n4007 and use them for all 1n400x.

#32 4 years ago

Q29, q24,q20, d4,r7, q7

Have all been replaced,

Reinstalling boards

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

No, but you buy 1n4007 and use them for all 1n400x.

Ok, I put in a 1n4004 in place of 1n4003, should I stop and get 1n4007 before proceeding?

#34 4 years ago

In the future all you need to buy are 1n4007. Your fine with the 1n4004.

#35 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

In the future all you need to buy are 1n4007. Your fine with the 1n4004.

That sounds great! You’re the only one I’ve read suggest this . Great idea

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

For solenoid #4 I would replace Q-20, Q-24 and D-4, but since this also a 50 volt coil you will have also replace Q-7 and R-7.
The I would remove J-11 and J-12 and turn on the power. Then I would check the resistance from ground to each header pin of J-11 and J-12. All should read a high resistance of .500 meg ohms or higher. If any read low then there is more work to be done on the cpu board before moving on to testing the aux power supply.

Ok, meter on diode setting, black connected to ground.

Do I test the pins on the cpu board? Or the pins in the cables?

You said header pins, so pins on the cpu board...

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Ok, meter on diode setting,

Use ohms.

Quoted from Chosen_S:

Do I test the pins on the cpu board?

Yep.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Use ohms.

Yep.

I’m sorry for these precise questions... am I testing the aux board j-11, j-12?

Or cpu board 1j-11, 1j-12?

#39 4 years ago
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#40 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Or cpu board 1j-11, 1j-12?

Yep.

#41 4 years ago

You can see by my readings, I’m not getting a signal on most of the pins, everything with a dash

#42 4 years ago

Pin 1 and pin 5 are solenoid #1 and solenoid #4. They should look the same as the others. Use the voltmeter and check the voltage on the base leads on Q-20 and Q-29 in attract mode. Should be 0.8 volts or less.

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Pin 1 and pin 5 are solenoid #1 and solenoid #4. They should look the same as the others. Use the voltmeter and check the voltage on the base leads on Q-20 and Q-29 in attract mode. Should be 0.8 volts or less.

Q-20, Q-29: 2.2v
All the other 2n4401’s are .21v

#44 4 years ago

Sounds like U-20 was hit too. It will need to be replaced.

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Sounds like U-20 was hit too. It will need to be replaced.

Done, that fixed the voltage. Woohoo!
Q-20, Q-29: .3v

#46 4 years ago

I’m guessing I’m good to plug 1j11,1j12 back in? Anything else to check?

#47 4 years ago

Yep. You must keep a good selection of parts on hand like I do.

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Yep. You must keep a good selection of parts on hand like I do.

Man I sure appreciate you, I owe you a sixer for sure!

I happened to have a few 7408 For U20 from a previous issue. And I had socketed the one on radical a while back years ago.

Thank you for all the detail, even in other threads, I’ve learned tons reading your advise. Myself and others will reference this at a later time.

#49 4 years ago

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