Quoted from soren:Juiced up right spinner will drain system resources.
That's what I get for lubing my spinners.
(Topic ID: 134659)
Quoted from soren:For the curious, here is a rundown of issues found on Radical.
All are fixed!
- RADICAL progress is never lost.
With a ball locked and some RADICAL progress, this progress is lost if the ball is nailed from the lock by opponents or tilt. Relocking basically resets the build-up to multiball.
- No multiball false start.
Two balls in lock trough, when the one was supposed to be ejected, will always start multiball.
- No incorrect end-of-ball, when draining down to one ball-in-play.
Two balls ejected to playfield, when the one was supposted to stay in the lock, will go to end-of-ball when draining down to one ball-in-play.
- A bug where Bust-a-move ramp shots would not register on fast combos, fixed.
Juiced up right spinner will drain system resources.
- A bug where Tail slide ramp shots would not always divert the ball, fixed.
Part 1:
On Skate-or-die lit at start-of-ball, this is ignored on ball launch. So so wrong.
And even worse. The ramp logic stays like this into game play.
Until some unknown condition, where the game will accept Skate-or-die on ramp made.
Part 2:
Buggy diverter control can release the diverter too quickly. Before the ball would reach to it.
This also explains the false registering as a Bust-a-move ramp made, when the timing of events are divert->release->ramp made.
- Buggy X ramp diverter control with multiple up/down/up cycles on open, fixed.
This is related to the one above. May occure when the ramp enter roll under switch is closed several times per shot on the gate jiggling.
- Better postpond ball search handling when balls are held by the game.
When balls eject at multiball start, you only have about two seconds till ball search kicks in. Very dangerous for the controlled type players, because of...
- A bug where Mega-million would go to last chance (timing out) on ball search, fixed.
Yep. Too bad.
- A bug where the lower drop targets would stay down with no Spot letter option, fixed.
Lock a ball without making any lower drops. On new ball-in-play make all of the lower drops and wait for the Million to time out.
They will stay down till the ball walks an inlane. No Spot letter.
- A buggy light show procedure related to the lower drop target bank, removed.
Check out the flicker of the radicAL and Letter value indicators.
- Tail slider start level is harmonised at level 2 for all players.
Tail slider starts on level 3 (third ramp shot is diverted to left and mode ends) for player 1. For players 2, 3 and 4 it is level 1.
- A bug where Tail slider mode would carry half baked to next player, fixed.
The remaining tail sliders till mode ends, current run, is inherited from previous player.
- Tail slider exceeding level 15 no longer freeze the ball in the lock.
Completing level 15 constitutes a memory overwrite that can freeze the ball in the lock.
- Messy logic regarding RADICAL progress and RADICAL shots indicators are cleaned up.
RADICAL progress indicators chase light is awkward.
Shot indicators would occationally stay off after lock made.
- A bug where on tilt, the game would not shut down lights and music, fixed.
Make the bob tap against the ring. And then hold against the ring. The nudge tilt and the lift tilt procedures trip each other.
Is this all in this?
LA-1 patch 8351
Copenhagen
Quoted from tdddddd:Any way to patch the PA-3 Rom?
You're running the prototype ROMs because you have a subway and a VUK?
Phoenix, AZ
Quoted from ajfclark:You're running the prototype ROMs because you have a subway and a VUK?
Yes. I added the VUK and the upper sling kicker and have been running PA-3 for years. It would nice to have these updates and support for solenoids 3A and 15.
Quoted from tdddddd:Yes. I added the VUK and the upper sling kicker and have been running PA-3 for years. It would nice to have these updates and support for solenoids 3A and 15.
I imagine it is already incredibly difficult for soren to test against production machines, let alone reenabling features that were dropped from the prototypes. Maybe it's easier than I think though?
People have got the VUK and slingshot working with release software though.
From memory, people that just moved the snake run target to the VUK fork switch (#19?) had issues because the game didn't cope with it being held down. However, putting the switch in the subway itself and chaining the coil from the drop target reset coil seems to work I believe. You'd need to double check that in the mod threads on here.
The upper slingshot could just be directly switched, like an old EM slingshot, but it might not have much punch (though maybe that's not bad given the location) and I'd separately fuse it incase a switch got stuck.
Quoted from ajfclark:People have got the VUK and slingshot working with release software though.
From memory, people that just moved the snake run target to the VUK fork switch (#19?) had issues because the game didn't cope with it being held down. However, putting the switch in the subway itself and chaining the coil from the drop target reset coil seems to work I believe.
Yes
Quoted from ajfclark:The upper slingshot could just be directly switched, like an old EM slingshot, but it might not have much punch (though maybe that's not bad given the location) and I'd separately fuse it incase a switch got stuck.
Yes, the power is about 10%, but perfect since the area doesn’t need full power
Also... yes, fuse this (I still need to do this)
Quoted from soren:The bugs are all found in the LA-1 rom.
And they are all fixed in the 8151 patch, yes.
So far so good, though I might update those labels with the patch number. I'll stream it in the next little while.
Quoted from ajfclark:I'll stream it in the next little while.
Quoted from Darkwing:Looks like it was STTNG?
Quoted from Darkwing:Looks like it was STTNG?
I moved to STTNG towards the end of the night... There's 3 hours of Radical before that.
Quoted from Clytor:The video labeled "Playing VPK" is actually the Radical stream.
Yup, always forget to update something before I start. I'll update the video title.
Video will be here till Twitch kocks it off in a few weeks: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/333095864
Quoted from soren:Awesome, Dude. Even with Radical [upside] down the game rocks.
It does! My play last night didn't, but I was handicapping myself a bit.
1 week later
Note. The patch has been updated on november 18. If your game says “LA-1 C8351” it is running the old patch.
Thanks to Free Play Florida and the raaaad broadcasting, an update to the Radical mod has been written. Features…
The kickback incident, fixed.
The Eschers dad incident, fixed. It was when the first ramp shot-free letter was the last “A”.
On (virtual) lock, with a ball already in the lock for immediate punch-out into play, the GI is kept on.
Tail slider is indicated as off at start-of-ball, if a re-lock is lit. The feature was infact off. Incorrectly indicated as available.
Radical
LA-1 patch aa9e
Download link: https://tinyurl.com/ycoakh9v
Quoted from soren:Note. The patch has been updated on november 18. If your game says “LA-1 C8351” it is running the old patch.
Thanks to Free Play Florida and the raaaad broadcasting, an update to the Radical mod has been written. Features…
The kickback incident, fixed.
The Eschers dad incident, fixed. It was when the first ramp shot-free letter was the last “A”.
On (virtual) lock, with a ball already in the lock for immediate punch-out into play, the GI is kept on.
Tail slider is indicated as off at start-of-ball, if a re-lock is lit. The feature was infact off. Incorrectly indicated as available.
Radical
LA-1 patch aa9e
Download link: https://tinyurl.com/ycoakh9v
So now I need to Reburn my patched Rom you posted 2 weeks ago?, no problem, just wandering
Quoted from Chosen_S:So now I need to Reburn my patched Rom you posted 2 weeks ago?, no problem, just wandering
Yes, and burn me a copy also 
Quoted from Chosen_S:So now I need to Reburn my patched Rom you posted 2 weeks ago?, no problem, just wandering
Strictly speaking, this is an update offering the four improvements listed.
I recommend upgrading, but it is up to you.
And yes, it is both U26 and U27. And a patch for the factory LA-1 files.
Quoted from soren:Strictly speaking, this is an update offering the four improvements listed.
I recommend upgrading, but it is up to you.
And yes, it is both U26 and U27. And a patch for the factory LA-1 files.
I don’t actually own a burner, I paid someone to burn the roms for me and send them to me... anyone have an intuitive link to a burner and instructions so I can re-write my current roms?
I'm using 27c256 EPROMs to burn the software and keep coming up with a U26 error. I don't know if I'm botching the patch or if I have some other issue. Anyone have a proven patched file they could send me?
U26 is a 16 KB ROM image. A 27c256 is a 32 KB capasity chip. It is fine to use, but the image will have to be stored twice.
Quoted from soren:U26 is a 16 KB ROM image. A 27c256 is a 32 KB capasity chip. It is fine to use, but the image will have to be stored twice.
Thank you very much for your work on these roms
Quoted from SkaterVet:I'm interested in purchasing a plug and play rom if anyone is producing them. Thanks!
Get in touch with Astill, he’s doing a great job producing roms
Long story short, I finally got the software working. I was originally getting a U26 error with the first version of the patch. I don't know if I botched the patch or if there was some other issue. With the newest patch I finally started getting an Adjustment Failure error. I went in and out of test, then it worked. I had to put my game settings back in(freeplay). I don't know if this had to do with having NVRAM in it or not. Anyway, playing great now. Thanks soren
On first boot-up with the new ROM installed, the game signals an Adjust failed (false alert). And Factory setting there after. After this any custom adjustments incl the new #50 have to be applied.
Quoted from soren:On first boot-up with the new ROM installed, the game signals an Adjust failed (false alert). And Factory setting there after. After this any custom adjustments incl the new #50 have to be applied.
Do you suspect any more updates possibly?
Suspect, yes. Hope not.
Radical just kept feeding more and more bugs. And with complicated logic to work on complicated mechs*, it was sort of evident that more stuff would turn up. And maybe will turn up. Despite heavy testing. Both laboratory test and general play.
For the first release, really only three things were not looked into. Bonus, the points speed-o-meter and kickback. Guess what, the kickback was faulty. That's Radical. I have since also looked into the bonus/bonus-x. It seems to hold up. Including the menu adjustable hold bonus feature (the lamps).
* Maybe not too obvious, but think about it. A spinner that is only supposed to be active when hit in one direction. That imposes somewhat of a dilemma even on paper, right.
Quoted from soren:Suspect, yes. Hope not.
Radical just kept feeding more and more bugs. And with complicated logic to work on complicated mechs*, it was sort of evident that more stuff would turn up. And maybe will turn up. Despite heavy testing. Both laboratory test and general play.
For the first release, really only three things were not looked into. Bonus, the points speed-o-meter and kickback. Guess what, the kickback was faulty. That's Radical. I have since also looked into the bonus/bonus-x. It seems to hold up. Including the menu adjustable hold bonus feature (the lamps).
* Maybe not too obvious, but think about it. A spinner that is only supposed to be active when hit in one direction. That imposes somewhat of a dilemma even on paper, right.
Well, I appreciate all the hard work you’re doing, it’s going to make our fun game a great game
Quoted from soren:* Maybe not too obvious, but think about it. A spinner that is only supposed to be active when hit in one direction. That imposes somewhat of a dilemma even on paper, right.
This is the right spinner, correct? and switch above it is supposed to give you the directions around the loop, but as we found, due to bouncing, misadjustement, etc it's not always reliable. I wonder if retro fitting an opto would be better or worse - just swapping one set of problems for another.
The right spinner, there was a bug, which is fixed. Forget about that.
The issue with the spinner logic is, that if it spins long enough from a back to front ball movement, the logic will start to interpret it as a front to back shot. Reason for my cute remark that a spinner rule like this is not that trivial to implement.
3 months later
4 weeks later
Anyone checked these blades for Radical yet?: https://www.retrorefurbs.com/shop/radical-pinball-sideblades/
Quoted from hassanchop:Anyone checked these blades for Radical yet?: https://www.retrorefurbs.com/shop/radical-pinball-sideblades/
Sweet, hadn’t seen those yet, I feel like there could be more to them though, like maybe add in the 1/2 pipe or something more dynamic
Quoted from Chosen_S:Sweet, hadn’t seen those yet, I feel like there could be more to them though, like maybe add in the 1/2 pipe or something more dynamic
I agree. Also, one of the characters looks like they are trying to learn how to ollie or kick turn. To be fair, some of the characters in the original art are a little wack too. This is the down side to having a trained eye from skating for over 30 years 
However, it is cool to see people coming out with new mods for these older games.
Quoted from Clytor:I agree. Also, one of the characters looks like they are trying to learn how to ollie or kick turn. To be fair, some of the characters in the original art are a little wack too. This is the down side to having a trained eye from skating for over 30 years However, it is cool to see people coming out with new mods for these older games.
Agreed on all fronts
1 month later
Has anyone ordered an "off the shelf" led kit for this game or customized your own? I have a Pinstadium in my game and it washes out the insert lights.
I forgot to mention that the game has incandescent lights in it. They can't compete with the Pinstadium. The Pinstadium is great in it though!
1 month later
Quoted from SkaterVet:What degree angle is best for Radical's play field?
Plays as fast as a Tron if you put it at 9 degrees! No kidding, that’s what mine was set to when I picked it up haha. I’d go with the standard 6.5 though.
Quoted from Darkwing:Plays as fast as a Tron if you put it at 9 degrees! No kidding, that’s what mine was set to when I picked it up haha. I’d go with the standard 6.5 though.
I think the manual says 7.
Incidentally, Freeplay40 is talking about doing some Radical! ramps... Test ramp was sadly no bueno but he's working on them: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/freeplay40-ramps/page/67#post-5102329
Quoted from ajfclark:I think the manual says 7.
Incidentally, freeplay40 is talking about doing some Radical! ramps... Test ramp was sadly no bueno but he's working on them: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/freeplay40-ramps/page/67#post-5102329
Holy crap. Great news!
Quoted from Clytor:Holy crap. Great news!
Indeed. If I was still pinsitting a Radical I'd be on that like a fat kid on cup cakes. I got one of @freeplay40's ramps for my space station and it is so much better than the original.
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
