(Topic ID: 184084)

Race-Way (Midway) help

By Litt

7 years ago


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  • 107 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Eddyk
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#4 7 years ago

First: Do you have a TILT relay on the backbox backboard? This will determine what schematic to go for.
My Race Way has a TILT relay while the factory published Race Way schematic shows a GAME OVER relay in its place. So my Race Way game is factory wired like a CHAMP game and I have to use a CHAMP schematic to troubleshoot. That caused me many problems with troubleshooting early on. No published schematic matches my Race Way wiring exactly.

Here is the typical published Race Way Car Motor schematic section. I think it is the same regardless of which game you have.
You can buy the Race Way schematic from Pinball Resource.

Alan

Race Way Car Motor schematic (resized).jpgRace Way Car Motor schematic (resized).jpg

#12 7 years ago

The photos you posted show me that you have the same wiring in your Race Way as I do. It will not match a Race Way schematic, you will need a Champ schematic. It seems wrong, but it is correct. Some Race Way games appear to be wired much more like Champ games and have different relays.
You have the Champ relay layout for the TILT and #1 & #2 Game Over relays that the Race Way schematic doesn't have.

I haven't been able to find a good copy of a Champ schematic so far.

The wiring for running the car motor is essentially the same as what I posted earlier though.

On your problem when the car is running continuously you need to look at the Reset Car #1 relay for the switch that is supposed to be open (is it closed?). If the switch is open then look at the 1 Length Relay for it's switch that is supposed to be open (is it closed?).

Then the only switch left to check is the Zero Position switch on car motor #1. This switch is underneath the racetrack board, next to the chain drive for the car. The racetrack board needs to be removed to check this switch.

Make sure the game is unplugged from the wall when doing any work or disassembly of parts, like checking the Zero Position switch on a car motor. There is power all over these games when plugged in even if switched off.

There is no easy way to fix these things without understanding how to work with schematics and wire color codes along with finding the right switches. You may need to find a local repair person to help you with this.

Alan

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

... You just want to put a 15A fuse in the upper holder that's missing a fuse. That's
for 6V lights. Leave the Low line fuse holder the way it is (empty)..

His photo shows a wire jumper across the 6V fuse holder clips.
That wire needs to be unsoldered and replaced with a proper fuse as you say.

Alan

#14 7 years ago

To keep yourself safe please follow the notes on this photo as MOPAR said.

If a fuse in the 6Volt holder blows then you have a short in the 6V light circuit to fix too. That may be why the jumper is there.

Alan

Capture (resized).JPGCapture (resized).JPG

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

... I'll look for the Champ's schematic.

MOPAR;
If you do have a Champ schematic would it be possible to scan it? I cannot find a Champ schematic anywhere for my Race Way game that is wired more like a Champ than a Race Way (and for this fellows game too).

Thanks.
Alan

#17 7 years ago

MOPAR wrote:>>...Do you have a Race Way schematic? Much will be the same, and if so, you may be able to help me fill
in a couple of places that the copier may leave out. Then I'll take the finished fixed up schematic and have it
re-copied for a final. I'm pretty sure the copier will fix 90% of what needs fixing..>>

I do have a pretty good Race Way schematic to work with. We should have enough to fill in missing items.

Thanks again.
Alan

#18 7 years ago

Litt;
For repairing the 6 volt fuse holder clips:
Go to an auto parts store and buy a pigtail fuse holder like this photo.
Cut the jumper wire in your pinball game in the middle and also cut the new fuse holder wire in the middle so it has two ends.
Then attach one end of the new fuse holder wire to one cut jumper, and the other end of the new fuse holder wire to the other cut jumper. Insert the correct fuse in the new holder and you are good to go.

Otherwise you need to buy a new 4 position fuse holder and replace the whole thing. That is what I did but it is more work.

Alan

Capture2 (resized).JPGCapture2 (resized).JPG

#24 7 years ago

Litt;
The video helps a lot but no answers yet. This one is going to be challenging.
It looks like your game has gone into a playing loop that is missing a signal to stop between balls and player numbers. I don't think it is a start up problem alone.

Is this video with the ball in the outhole or not? What happens if you play the ball?

1) Both cars do move at times, and stop at times
2) It looks like the game is on the 2nd player a lot but the scoring is mostly from the 1st player
3) The ball count does go up, erratically, (and the back light going off and on indicates this too)
4) Does not go into game over after 5 balls
5) The car motions seem disconnected from the ball in play actions. They don't seem to act together, although lap scoring is done correctly.

In general the game acts confused!

The problem could be almost anything, usually a bad wire connection, dirty or mis-adjusted switch, bad stepper or contacts on stepper, among many other things unknown.

For a novice the first items to do are the easy ones:
Unplug the machine from the wall!
1) Gently tug on every wire connection in the game to see if any come off or are already off. Tweezers or long nose pliers can be used.
2) Clean every brass rivet on every stepper (alcohol and a rag)
3) Manually activate the step up and step down (or reset) levers on every stepper to see if the stepper is sluggish or stuck
4) Pull off all Jones Plug connections (including the small ones inside the front of the game for the coin door and launch button). Also check that all Jones Plugs are actually plugged in.
5) Check Jones plugs for loose connections or bad socket connections. Re-install by pushing on and pulling off a few times before finally seating the plugs into the sockets. Double check the connections for continuity with a multimeter or continuity checker.
6) Check the outhole switches under the playfield. See if they act correctly when the ball is both in the outhole and out of the outhole.

Plug the game in again, put the ball into the outhole, and see what happens.
Hopefully something different happens, maybe good, but not always.

If it still doesn't work then it gets more challenging for a novice. This is where things can go really wrong if done incorrectly.
At this time someone needs to check all relay coils and stepper solenoids to see if they are good.
All switches need to be cleaned (abraded), and adjusted for proper gap.
Consider reflowing the solder on questionable solder joints.
Look at Jones Plug connections (both male and female) real close to see if they are actually contacting.
Check all wiring runs for worn away insulation creating short circuits.
Check switches for bent tabs that short out to another tab.

In the end what usually happens is that you find one single thing that was bad and you get aggravated at how many things had to be checked before stumbling across it!

Alan

#25 7 years ago

While my game still starts correctly I made a startup and game play video of the backbox relay board so you can see what is supposed to happen.

#26 7 years ago

Here are the steppers and control motor motions during start and play.

Alan

#29 7 years ago

<MOPAR wrote">but also you might want to check
the contacts on the playfield behind the rubbers and targets making sure none are closed
and touching and making contact.<

I like that suggestion as a starting point. It could be that the car motion is from a closed set of scoring contacts on the playfield.

Quoted from Mopar:

check and see if any, what Relays
are energized

Good idea too. If any of the lap relays are constantly on then it is a similar problem as a stuck playfield switch.

In general, from the photos provided in an earlier post, it looks like the stepper contacts and switch contacts are quite dirty/gummy. Cleaning all those may help clear up some issues.

Alan

#30 7 years ago

Take a look at his playfield in this photo.
The rubber bands look like they are being pushed outward. Could be an optical illusion but warrants checking this out.

I say follow the suggestion from MOPAR by pulling all the rubber bands off the playfield, check all playfield switches for being open (no switch contact).
This includes the top row of targets. They have switches too that could be stuck on.
The top row is accessed by removing the 4 screws holding the metal apron on. Look at all the switches (also double check with a multimeter/continuity checker) to make sure they are not closed.

Put a ball in the outhole, then start a game.

Alan

Untitled-1 (resized).jpgUntitled-1 (resized).jpg

#32 7 years ago
Quoted from Litt:

Great stuff! Sounds like I have a full weekend ahead.
I noticed as I was playing around that the center lap target on the back wall has no pressure behind it. Just swings without any contact. Perhaps that contact is always engaged. Any suggestions on how to get a closer look behind that component? Is that the metal apron referenced?

Yes, the metal strip above the row of targets. 4 screws.
Here it is removed.

Alan

apron removed (resized).jpgapron removed (resized).jpg

1 week later
#38 7 years ago

Litt wrote: >>Okay, so I cut the hard wired fuse/wire. With the cut fuse it doesn't even come on.
>>The center flap seems to be missing the piece that makes the connection. Not sure if that makes sense. <<

1) You would have to put in the external fuse holder I showed earlier into the cut fuse lines to get power back to the game. But changing the fuse block is the better option.

2) The center flap on the swinging switch is because the lower switch blade and nylon spacer are missing. They broke off and disappeared. Unless you can find an old switch for parts from a pinball game then it has to be remade using new parts. Pinball Resource sells bare switch blades, contacts, and nylon spacers; all as separate parts. Right now I would forget about this one and work on getting the game running. This switch won't affect the game running.

So you have checked all the playfield switches and none are making contact in their free state?

Alan

3 weeks later
#54 6 years ago

>>Current problem, when I hit Tha switch to "add money" to the machine, nothing happens. Is there another way to get it to start up? >>

First: are you getting 50V dc on both sides of the fuse block (check on the wires, not the fuse ends or tabs)? This will check the entry wiring and solder quality.

If OK then trip the START relay using a plastic rod or wood dowel (no metal) by pushing the relay shoe towards the coil. Anything happen?

#56 6 years ago
Quoted from Litt:

I don't have a volt meter, yet. I'll check when I get one.
Would it be bad for me to push the START relay before testing the wires?

On second thought I had better not recommend to push the relay, I want to err on the safety side. If you have done it before and know how to protect yourself against a shock then maybe do it, but always err on the safety side. 50 volts packs a wallop.

#59 6 years ago

I looks like you are making progress, the game now is trying to reset and start a new game. When the two cars reset to to the starting line the game should stop at ball 1 and wait for the ball to be launched and scoring to begin. The cars do reset to the start line but the game doesn't stop at ball 1, rather it plays through all the balls automatically. You can also see the score motor never stops, it keeps on running. That is why the game keeps going on and on.

There is going to one or more switches that tell the score motor to stop and wait for ball one to be launched. That is probably what needs to be found now.

It looks like your fuse block wiring is OK, otherwise the game wouldn't work at all. That extra jumper wire is for choosing between low line and high line voltage by moving the fuse to one or the other location. Don't worry about that, either fuse position will be fine. It is just a choice for if you have low line voltage. You only put the one fuse in one location, not a fuse in both locations.

I'll look at the schematic some more when I get chance.

From the video it looks like you are tripping the switch on the coin door (what you call the Start Relay) to get the game to start?

Alan

#61 6 years ago

What happens if you only hit the START relay on the back door but NOT the other switch on the coin door, then after the cars reset try to launch a ball?
You shouldn't need to hit the coindoor switch if you already hit the START relay. They are essentially the same thing.

Questions:
1) After hitting the START relay on the back door what does the game do and at what point does it stop and wait? Do the scores reset to zero and the ball count is at one?
2) Without hitting the other coindoor switch what happens if the ball launch switch is pushed? Have you checked if the ball launch switch plug is in the socket inside the cabinet? It is a two prong connector.

#66 6 years ago

>>I rewired it exactly how it was wired last time, but I'm not sure that the wire placement wasn't messed with back in the day. If you >>look at the picture of the old wiring, there is a jumper wire going from the bottom right up to the next to the bottom right. Something >>about that seems odd.<<

The old wiring and your new fuse block wiring is OK. That 3rd fuse location is only for low line voltage if you have that problem. The jumper connected the one 120 volt feed into two possible fuse locations depending upon what your actual line voltage is. A normal line voltage would have a fuse put into the 4th location while a low line voltage would move that fuse to the 3rd location.

His new wiring gets rid of the jumper therefore also the 3rd location for the low voltage condition, which is OK as long as his fuse is in the 4th location for normal line voltage.

Although you have 4 fuse locations available, only 3 are ever used.

Alan

#67 6 years ago
Quoted from Litt:

Well... interesting. While trying again, the ball shot out. Was able to play a few rounds then got stuck in the pit stop.
Just as I start to feel like I'm close, I'm not.
I think I need to learn how to use a volt meter and check each wire. Unfortunately I'm not sure what kind if reading I'm looking for.

I think you are really close.
Now you are playing a game it seems.
Just to be sure: you now can get the game started to where the cars reset to the start line, the scores reset to zero, and the ball count is on 1?

The stuck ball is probably a switch problem for that capture hole. Unplug the machine, take the ball out of the hole, raise the playfield and locate the switch for that hole. Is the switch open? Then place a ball into the hole, is the switch closed?

If it is closed with the ball in the hole then maybe the contacts are dirty. Use fine sandpaper and lightly sand both contacts and try the game again.

Also tug on the wires to the switch to see if they are still connected well.

Alan

#68 6 years ago
Quoted from Litt:

P2K,
I noticed that the lock rely was engaged.

This is OK. It stays engaged during game play and releases at game over. Look at my video on the startup sequence on YouTube.

7 months later
#70 6 years ago
Quoted from Litt:

First, official public thank you of Heatwave for his assistance!!! I've cleaned all of the contacts in the back of the machine. Cranked it up again. Still wasn't working so I started pushing contacts in the back. What I found is that car number one's motor is running all the time but not moving. My new theory is that that motor either 1)isn't making contact or 2) isn't connected. Anyone have a thought? Heatwave, want to come back for another look?

If you are sure the motor is actually spinning but not engaging the car then it can be a few problems, all at the motor/gearbox.

Four things to look for:
1) Are the gearbox gears and output shaft spinning as well but not engaging the sprocket?
2) Is the motor actually spinning but no gearbox action?
3) When the motor is spinning can you get the car to start moving on its own by coaxing the chain/sprocket along (is the chain mech stuck, too much resistance?)
4) Is it just the magnet attraction not working; car not moving but chain drive mech is working?

If the motor is spinning but not moving the gearbox then it may be a worn out armature (rotor). I found that on my car #1 motor the armature had a lot more axial movement when energized compared to car motor #2. This excess axial wear made the contact between the armature and the gearbox weak and would produce a halting motion (stop/start). I would think even more wear could stop the car motion.

I figured that most games during the machine's lifetime were 1 player games and that motor got most of the wear.

Since mine was at that tipping point of intermittent motion I found that inserting a nylon washer (split) around the armature shaft to reduce the axial movement greatly improved the problem. In addition I did some tricks to reduce the load on the motors during motion.

Alan

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