(Topic ID: 151957)

Questions - Adding 100 point bell to North Star and Slick Chick


By MikeO

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Boatcat
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

So I have accumulated a couple of 5" bells with the intention of adding them to my Slick Chick and North Star where they did not come with them from the factory.

In reviewing the game play of both of these games it seems Gottlieb, in their infinite wisdom, combined(compromised) the bell function.

I originally assumed that the 0-9 unit with the integral bell sounded 1 point increments and that the stand alone bell sounded 10 point increments without the 100 points sounding anything. Now that I've paid attention I find that the 0-9 bell does sound on 1 point increments. The separate bell sounds on 100 point increments. And 10 point scores sound both the 0-9 bell and the stand alone bell at the same time. The dual bells chiming on the 10 point scores comes off as less than discreet.

I'm assuming on later games like Domino and Target Pool, where they actually had three bells, that the tonal differences are no different than the two bells from games like NS and SC along with the addition of the 5" bell for the 100 point scoring. That was my plan for NS and SC. Keep the integral 0-9 bell for 1 point scoring, use the stand alone bell for 10 point scores, and add the 5" bell for 100 point scoring.

What is not totally clear yet, as I have not dug too deep yet, is which circuit to disable off of the 10 point score relay to eliminate the dual bell sounding at 10 point scoring. Obviously I will need to rewire the circuit from the 100 point relay to drive the 5" bell and abandon the circuit that now sounds the stand alone bell.

Has anyone done this to their games? Is it this simple?

Thanks for any insight.

#2 3 years ago

guessin here, but looks like if you sever the lead to the stand alone bell, and rout it to the 5" bell=100 point chime
then, sever the line from the 10 point relay, that used to go to the 100 point bell, and rout that to the 10 point bell.
looks good on paper anyway.

#3 3 years ago

Thanks, Dr.

That is kind of what I had in mind.

The confusing part of this is there currently is a single pair of leads to the 10 point bell(which rings whenever 10 points or 100 points is scored). I want the path to the 10 point bell to remain from the 10 point relay only. I suspect I need to pull a circuit off of the 100 point relay directly to the new 100 point bell and also sever the connection from the 10 point relay to the 1 point bell.

Does this make sense?

#4 3 years ago

I'm trying to follow this, not sure I am.

Mike, are you saying that any 10 point score is causing both the 10/100 point bell, AND the 0-9 unit bell, to ring at the same time? Or are they ringing only when the 1s reel clicks over from 9 to 0, which would step the 0-9 unit and the 10 point reel and ring the 10/100 point bell.

In order for that 1 point bell to ring, the 0-9 unit has to step. That unit should not be stepping on a 10 point score. It sounds to me that something has been hacked that is causing the 0-9 unit to step on both 1 point, and 10 point, scores. That can't be right.

#5 3 years ago

That is what I'm saying, Scott. When I hit a 10 point score both bells chime. So, yes, the 0-9 unit indexes each time a 1 or 10 is scored.

At first when I checked this on North Star I thought this might be abnormal. But for grins I walked over to Slick Chick and it functions exactly the same way.

And both games appear to be factory wiring with no modifications.

I haven't taken much time to go through the schematics on both games to see where the circuits reside to support this functionality. I was hoping someone else had traveled this path before me.

#6 3 years ago

My brother put a 5" gong in his "North Star" for the 100 points. I'm not sure how he wired it, but I don't think it was very complicated.
I'm pretty sure "Sky Line" doesn't originally have one either, and he put one in that game as well. As far as both the 1 and 10 point bells ringing simultaneously, I never examined either game closely, but that doesn't sound right (no pun intended).

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

That is what I'm saying, Scott. When I hit a 10 point score both bells chime. So, yes, the 0-9 unit indexes each time a 1 or 10 is scored.
At first when I checked this on North Star I thought this might be abnormal. But for grins I walked over to Slick Chick and it functions exactly the same way.
And both games appear to be factory wiring with no modifications.
I haven't taken much time to go through the schematics on both games to see where the circuits reside to support this functionality. I was hoping someone else had traveled this path before me.

Well, that's certainly different. I've never seen one that operated quite like that. Usually that only steps for the one point, as it is also the match feature stepper. I know my Royal Guard is 1968 and it only steps, and rings the attached bell, on one point.

I never felt those clapper bells sounded that good so I took the bell off the stepper, and bought a bell from PBR and wired that in for the one point bell. Sounds much better to me.

I would guess it is factory, but why they wired it that way, who knows? The schematic obviously will have 10 point scoring the the circuit to the coil of the stepper.

#8 3 years ago

Ice Revue has 3 bells from factory and only 1 year later than NS so may be worth checking one out.

#9 3 years ago

So I investigated further and have more to report.

North Star and Slick Chick do not chime exactly the same.

North Star is consistent in what I presented above. 0-9 chimes, and advances, on every 1 point and every 10 point score. The separate bell chimes on every 10 point and every 100 point. So I will pursue and follow up with the solution presented above.

Slick Chick is not exactly the same as North Star as I first presented. It has a condition where when you roll over the A/B/C/D and score 30 points the 10 point scoring tones both the separate bell and the 0-9 unit. Other than that 10 points scores just the single bell. 1 points score the 0-9 unit and 100 points tones the separate bell. The simple thing here would be to switch the leads on the 100 point relay to the new 5" bell. I'll look to see what it takes to have the 30 point A/B/C/D tone only the single bell.

I have Ice Revue and reviewed the schematic last night and saw the three separate bells so it was not going to help. So it looks like I am working with two games from before they went to 3 bells.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

So it looks like I am working with two games from before they went to 3 bells.

There are older games with three bells (e.g., woodrails have them). I suspect it was a budget thing; the BOM cost was probably a basic target, and so they could afford only so much. A game like North Star or Slick Chick had more bumpers than other games, so they didn't get the third bell, whereas other games had less stuff, leaving room for the cost of the gong bell. But that's speculation.

That third bell is nice to have though.

1 week later
#11 3 years ago

Will you let us know if you were able to get the big bell working in Slick Chick? I'm thinking of doing the same.

Thx!

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from alb0711:

Will you let us know if you were able to get the big bell working in Slick Chick? I'm thinking of doing the same.
Thx!

I will. I got sidetracked the last week or so. I'll probably be able to get to it this weekend.

1 week later
#13 3 years ago

I have a Slick Chick and a North Star and have added a 100 point, (5-inch), bell to both.

The 1-point relay has a switch to energize the 0-9 unit which strikes the 1-point bell, and the 10 and 100 point relays each have a switch to energize the 10-point bell unit. However, North Star is a game that Gottlieb had to wire the 10 point relay to energize the 0-9 unit to keep the center special alternating on and off while in the middle of the 10-point-when-lit cluster of bumpers, so this relay WILL sound both bells. Most Gottliebs Games aren't set-up this way. On most, the 1-point relay gets the match unit, and the 10-point relay gets the free-standing 3" bell. Sing Along is wired the same as NS so when the ball is bouncing off of the lower slings, the holes will still alternate, (for special), despite the slings being lit for 10 points.

The mod is easy, but I don't think there's enough room to mount the 5-inch bell in the head. My games are in the middle of a row, (sorry, it wouldn't be easy to pull them out and take a look). I mounted the new 100-point bell inside the main cabinet back wall and jumped the common wire off of the knocker coil directly to the new bell coil. Start a game after this has been done, and with a small screwdriver or tool, short each switch on the 100-point relay individually until you find the switch that energizes the 3" bell unit. Remove the NON-common wire and tape back, replace with your new wire which will go to the other side of the 5" bell. Done!

I removed the 0-9 unit wire on the NS 10-point relay and tied back as well so I would only hear the 3" bell when sounded, plus I like the idea of the center special rollover being lit while the ball is banging around in that area. One time I think I ran over the rollover around 10-11 times for free games, (this is what I think Gottlieb was trying to avoid).

I added a 2-prong molex connector so I could remove the head, but not necessary.

It's a great addition to these 2 great games, as each has a feature that scores 100 points, (SC-center hole, and NS-2 kickout holes), and makes for a nice enhanced audio effect during play.

#14 3 years ago

Ron,

Thank you for the feedback on what to look out for on making this modification.

I'll follow up with my success (or failure) when I get to this.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Boatcat:

I ran over the rollover around 10-11 times for free games, (this is what I think Gottlieb was trying to avoid).

Good info Boatcat! your prob right on the money there.thanks for the info.
thats the kind of stuff we need to keep on the surface!
its one thing to know the how.
its another entirely to know the why.

#16 3 years ago

Your welcome, Dr_of_Style!

Since you're interested, I may as well speculate , "The Why" on Sing Along also:

On Sing Along, having the 0-9 unit moving on both the 1 and 10 point relays is much more critical than on North Star. If you detach the 0-9 unit wiring from the 10 point relay and have the pops and slings lit for 10 points, the only areas that will alternate the holes for special while the ball is in play are the inner rebounds next to the "2" rollovers. You'd be surprised how little those inner rebounds are actually contacted. If you have for instance, only the green special lit, seems like it takes forever for it to finally light. I originally thought the bulb had burned out, but later realized there was hardly anything on the playfield stepping the 0-9 unit.

Leaving the 10-point relay wiring stock will add the 4 pops and 2 slings contributing to the alternating, having the special lights move around at a much more exciting speed.

So......WHY is there so little on Sing Along scoring single digit points? Well.........It's only the second game by Gottlieb with a reel representing the thousands digit. No more "1000" light in the silk screen glass. At the 5-ball suggested replay level of 3400, with a main feature of inline kickout holes scoring only 10-50 points, Gottlieb really needed to pick up the scoring pace on this one!

You're dependent on the 9 100-point bullseyes-rollovers. The rest of the playfield scoring, (remaining 8 sequence numbers, pops, inline holes and kickers), is not going to get you near the replay levels. This kinda takes the thrill out of watching and listening to the game racking up all those trivial inline hole points. Ya gotta hammer away at the 2's and 3's to get near replay-land on this game. The center target is a sucker shot as the ball will be back, "In your face" immediately, (and usually fighting to keep it alive).

Gottlieb did a great job on this game with regard to special sequences, but the scoring I would say is at best, dis-functional.

#17 3 years ago

Interesting. I wonder what the designers thought when they saw their ideas in action...and were not impressed due to those little details that did not quite produce the "WOW" factor they planned on.

#18 3 years ago

Well.............This is really just my opinion. Maybe the scoring differences were Gottlieb's intention, but to me, having 8 rollovers worth 5 points, but 9 other targets-rollovers always worth 100 points, tells me Gottlieb tried to "Compensate." It's almost like the planning started out with the glass having the silk-screened "1" in the score. Who knows?

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