Yes, I received $576 from Estes/GEX - not nearly enough to put the game back into new condition - it needs a new cabinet, rails, head, and other misc items. I was not made whole. It was a bad deal for me for sure, but now it seems that Game Exchange has either revised it's policy such that one should expect a replacement machine when a machine arrives with concealed damage or the OP was a special case and buyers should not expect a replacement.

I'd just like to know the official policy of Game Exchange. I asked to return the machine to exchange for a replacement and was told that was not an option.

Did you have a picture or any evidence of the game already being opened/re-palletized/etc... while still in the liftgate?

That is pretty key to this turning out well for JJ because he is going to have to still fight with the shipper to get this fixed.

Did you use a credit card? Did the card offer any protection?

Your situation seems unacceptable.

My machine was on the factory pallet. It had a footprint on top of the box and the staples were broken. I opened the top and inspected the machine with a flashlight and it looked fine. What I didn't know and couldn't tell was that the machine had fallen over at some point during transit. A "tip indicator" and/or ShockWatch device would have been nice. It wasn't until it was unboxed AND unpacked that the damage could be seen.

I know a signed BOL indicates acceptance and that concealed damage claims are a losing proposition for the recipient. I get that. I accept the risk of concealed damage and that I lose if I receive any freight shipment with concealed damage. I know that someone at Estes knew my machine had dumped over and they didn't say anything to anyone (human nature I suppose). I am not trying to raise a stink - JJ did OK as I expected to lose on the deal. It's the nature of the freight industry.

Both the OP and myself signed off on a BOL with a concealed damage product. I asked for a replacement and was denied. The OP asked for a replacement and was granted. I'd like to know if Game Exchange, going forward, will replace concealed damaged machines or if the OP was a special case? There is no doubt there will be losers all around. In my case, it was me and the freight company. In the OPs case it, it is GEX and the freight company. A policy of replacing concealed damage pinball machines is, as I see it, a marketing expense for the seller - if the seller choses to make that a policy. Either the seller or buyer is going to lose money in a concealed damage incident, but it's exclusively up to the seller to determine which party gets to 'eat it'.

Did you document the unboxing with pics through the process and the delivery like the OP did? I'm not trying to be an ass here even though I know that is how it will be taken but if you did not this is an apples and oranges comparison. The OP had clear evidence that something out of the norm occurred (box open and wrong pallet). I think it is only because of this he is getting this type of restitution. If you can't document the damage was not done by you then (in the vendors eyes) the damage could have been done by you and you are just trying to get it fixed on their dime. Not saying that is what happened but it's their word vs yours and trust me there are A LOT of people out there that do that kind of stuff.

I can see where this thread is about to go so I want to make sure that we are at least talking the same situation before we start talking about one person getting preferential treatment over another (where I feel this will head fast).

At the end of the day I do feel everyone should get an undamaged product so hopefully what I'm saying isn't being interpreted as the opposite.

What was the damage? You have any pics?

Bought a t.v. at Fry's electronics and the guy in the back starts wheeling out our t.v. (60 inch) it was big box, but was crushed in one the side pretty bad. I told the guy I don't want this one, get me one undamaged, he said ok came back out no issues. I just wish pinball was easier to buy as most of us don't live close to a distributor where if they wheeled out a damaged box you can say, get me one undamaged.

Does the OP have to send back the broken machine, or does he keep it?

I bet whatever you might lose on that purchase will be made up multiple times. For example, I know who will be the first one I call when shopping for a NIB!

Jaz

No its a case by case decision, Normally we help with the freight claim and such and recover anything we can for the customer. The damage to this pin was so extreme that we felt we needed to replace.

As far as freight goes. No but you are in deep Trouble. Freight companies insurance liability is 1/3 of the TOTAL damage or the limit on the insurance which ever one comes first. If they will not let you open the box then don't sign for it.. they will change there tune. I ship about 600 shipments a year and Ive never heard of the terminal saying sorry you can't inspect your freight before you sign. INFACT what you are signing says how have inspected your freight and are satisfied with it being in good condition. To be satisfied with a shipment I'm picking up at terminal I'm unboxing it. When I personalty pick up shipments at the terminals (for when I'm setting a new game room out of state) I DO follow my own advice and unbox the entire shipment before I sign.

When you pick up your shipment, they are release from ALL liability when you sign. Because you could have dropped it off the back of your truck, it could have fallen over in your possession ect.

Freight is a Nasty world because there rules are built to protect them, not shipper or receiver.

Would you Rent a Car with out walking around for it before signing that its undamaged? Same Idea on a shipment, I want to look at the product. Once you Sign it you technically own it. Its your property.

Credit Card Companies stand behind this too, they understand its the customers responsibility to carefully and thoughtfully inspect a shipment.

That is true except when they are AWARE it's been mishandled and fail to disclose that. Plus, in the case of the OP, they had repacked without disclosing that. So, there is liability there.

The problem is, you have to PROVE that... probably in court... and that is not only difficult (if not impossible)... it's costly.

Jaz

Touche' Nice free PR & business move. In other NASDAQ news...Game Exchange stock gained 8 points on the day....

Please inform your sales rep you would like to have your shipments pre-alerted to each cross dock location.

I picked up 2 giant speakers at the Yellow Freight terminal (they are open 24 hours, so I went after work).

First the guy in the booth tells me to "sign here and I'll go get your boxes" - so he is wanting me to sign before I've even seen the condition of the boxes.

Then when the boxes come on the forklift, they are way bigger than the company that sold them to me said they would be (turned out that there is a shipping box inside of the SHIPPING BOX).

One corner is dented in one of the boxes, so I make note and then proceed to open the boxes so I can just put the speakers in my SUV. The fork driver says "You can't open that shit here!". I proceed to open them anyway. As I'm loading the inner boxes into my car, the fork driver comes back with the boss who says "You are not allowed to open crates here". I say I was checking for damage. I drove away and left the giant outer boxes for those cocksacks to clean up. I thought the guard and the guard shack was not going to lift the gate to let me out, but he did without incident.

Fair enough - just wanted to make sure that everyone knows that sending a replacement game for concealed damage is very much an exception rather than the norm. I applaud you making the OP as whole as possible, but I'd hate for you to be under the gun to replace ALL major concealed damage incidents. I'd also recommend that you install shock and tip-over sensors before you ship from your warehouse as an aid for the buyer (yes, Stern should too).

To buyers: I don't think there are any vendors that will send a replacement machine when you sign off on a BOL, except in rare circumstances. In other words, unbox, unpack, and even raise the head before you accept a pinball machine. The box can fall over without any signs and the damage can easily be hidden during a less-than completely unpacked inspection. Bring tools, tape, and a helper. In a vast majority of cases, you will lose money/value if you fail to find the damage - even if the box looks perfect.

100 percent agree. Most buyers are oblivious of how many times a fork lift will touch the pallet. 10 times? I helped my uncle run his souvenir booth at maple leaf gardens in the late 70's...how many times kids would come back and say my mini stick broke..I want a new one...I would ask my uncle joe..every time he would say "tell your parents to buy another" I felt bad for the kids and sometimes would sneak them another for free. My uncle never said a word when a parent would come back and say Thank you very much..and bought more stuff.

Real Simple.. Can't Inspect = Sorry I can't sign until I do.

Any Freight line that won't let you unbox your machine before you sign, won't be carrying freight for us any more after that. Thats an easy decision for me!

Don't ever use Yellow Freight then, first they use the extra "out of area" fee then if you go to the terminal they want you to sign the BOL @ at the office window before they bring out the game.
When I told the guy I wanted to inspect before signing it pissed him off and I had to wait over 2 hours before they brought out my games.

Just realized something...

So Metallica Pro, Star Trek Pro & etc are $4999 shipped on ebay

I can get 1% cash back on my card plus 4% "ebay bucks" on "double points day" from my purchase.

That means $4750 delivered with paypal protection, ebay protection, shipping protection & etc

If it's not 2x points day it's $4850 to my door

That's way easier than waiting for a check to clear & risking it all.

Am I missing something in this formula?

That could work, actually. I think you might do better with one of the Pinsider distribs still, though.

Yeah but by how much?

$100

$200

?

That's not a lot of money or incentive to write a check & lose protection.

Double ebay bucks puts Luci in my house for $6,745.00 with all the paypal & ebay safety nets.

Edit: ebay bucks seem to max out at $100 so anything above $5K is not paying out. Not sure if that means double buck offers max out at $2500 or if I can actually pocket $200 on $5K?

Super duper edit: 2% regular multiplier ebay bucks + 2% cash back on the ebay credit card with a $30 statement credit puts a new Stern Pro in my home for $4769.00 with a 100% protection package.