That's not the same. Ordering from Stern is ordering a product you know is coming whether your money is in on it or not.

When we talk about "pre order"'in pinball, were talking about startups that don't have a factory, don't have things figured out...they're using your money as crowdfunding. Jpop, SkitB, Dutch, Heighway. They're all toast. This model is done.

Wheel of Fortune was 2007. JJP started up with WOZ due to the "cheap era" Sterns of 2010....then the boutiques started when they saw "rare" games like BBB, Tron LE, and AC/DC LE getting $10k+ from collectors.

Simple. It began with Big Bang Bar. An unlikely dreamer built ~200 units for $4500, which once delivered years later sold in the aftermarket for $20-$30,000. Then Tron LE went from a $5000 game to a $10,000 game, then AC/DC BIBLE shot up in value as well. Collectors wanted to get in on "the next big thing" and boutiques were happy to take their money for the promise of a rare game that would be worth more than the initial investment.

Not everyone is a speculator - but the few examples of rare games rising in value enormously made the proposition seem like a win-win situation for everyone....until the house of cards started to fall.

We're not agreeing on what "pre-order" means in the context of pinball. When Stern announced SMVE, you ordered it. They had developed it already, they're gonna build it in their factory, it's a done deal, you don't have to worry about not getting it (or a refund if you change your mind). That's an order. IMO, "pre-order" is for pretty much anyone outside of Stern & JJP....maybe Spooky. It implies that you're funding an unknown player...someone who doesn't have the capital to run the company without your pre-order money. Jpop, Skit-B, Dutch, Heighway. That model is DEAD. People will continue to ORDER Stern or JJP games because there's nothing to worry about....yes, its in advance...but there's no risk involved. Maybe that's the clarifier? Non-risk pre-order vs. high-risk pre-order? LOL I dunno....

You see some new boutique coming out of nowhere, trying this and succeeding? Or people throwing money at Heighway or Dutch on an announcement even though the game wouldn't likely ship for a year or two? As long as people are still trying to get their money back from Jpop, Predator, Heighway and Dutch...none of those people will ever do it again - and those stories will still be circulating for newbs to chew on.