(Topic ID: 245891)

question about relays and steppers

By ravve

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 8 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by jrpinball
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

Hi,
Really new to this, got my first EM pinball machine: Williams Pat hand 1975.
It is not working, and I’ve been doing some researches on the web and getting to learn how to troubleshoot the machine.

As for now I have two questions:

1. Am I supposed to be able to manually (by hand, with the machine turned off) ”operate” all the steppers by pushing the coil plumber for the coil that is for stepping up?
By steppers i mean like the Ball Count Unit, Coin S.U. Disc, Player Unit Disc, Bonus Unit and the Credits reel.

The reason I am asking is because I can ”rotate” the discs by hand when grabbing the disc itself and rotating, but some of them I cant manage to rotate by pushing the coil.
Am I missing something, or should it be enough to just press the coil to make the unit step up?

2. There is a coil that is stuck. the plumber should be out more I think, see pic. The arm that is supposed to be pushed down by the coil is already pushed down all the way, and I cant press it up.
am I supposed to be able to do that?
This coil is for stepping upp the credits reel I think.

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#2 4 years ago

you are correct on both counts.

You should be able to operate the steppers by the coils. Either the coil is melted or the mech is bound up. The mechs do bind up and there is info on pinwiki about rebuilding them. Some units had a white grease on them that has long since turned to stone.

That plunger shouldn't be pulled in but the arm could be stuck as detailed above.

#3 4 years ago

Units should be easily steppable by hand by pressing the plungers. Note that the step up coils stay in (mechanically) when at zero position until they're stepped up at least once

#4 4 years ago

Thanks for the replies!
So in my case I should make the conclusion that the step-up coil for the score reel is damaged and needs to be replaced, or can it be fixed somehow?

zacaj how to the unit step up when in zero position, if the coil for stepping it up is already in?

I will post a video later just to double check that I am doing it right...

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from ravve:

Thanks for the replies!
So in my case I should make the conclusion that the step-up coil for the score reel is damaged and needs to be replaced, or can it be fixed somehow?
zacaj how to the unit step up when in zero position, if the coil for stepping it up is already in?
I will post a video later just to double check that I am doing it right...

The smaller coil that's 'stuck' in your Pic is the step *down*. So to step it up just use the other coil on the mech to step it up. At that point the small coil should move out and can then be pushed to step back down

#6 4 years ago

My response isn’t directly addressing your questions. I thought I would share a couple of sites just in case you do not know of these resources. I found the following two Resources to be valuable when started working on my first em. I should add that I still frequently review them. Much of knowledge you need is there.
1. http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/
2. http://www.pinrepair.com/

If you do not have the manual or schematics, they can be found on “The Internet Pinball Machine Database”. They are free to download. The schematics will come in handy for troubleshooting. https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=Pat+hand&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#1767

Good luck with your Pat Hand. I found this to be a fun game.

#7 4 years ago

Just gonna echo some stuff:

Quoted from Cheddar:

That plunger shouldn't be pulled in but the arm could be stuck as detailed above.

This is correct - coil looks okay (from this angle), so I'd wager, if stepping up...

Quoted from zacaj:

So to step it up just use the other coil on the mech to step it up. At that point the small coil should move out and can then be pushed to step back down

should move the ratchet arm up and out of the way. If you examine the gear that the arms press against when you move the coil plungers, you should see the mechanical reason why the ratchet arm may or may not be moving. If there's no impediment to moving the arm, then there is dried grease or something on there. The ratchet arms are the reason why you may or may not be able to twist the 'spider' fingers or circular wiper discs from the front, btw.

Quoted from BleacherBum:

Good luck with your Pat Hand. I found this to be a fun game.

I didn't think much of the layout before I repaired one, but was pleasantly surprised by how fun the game was.

#8 4 years ago

Pull all those steppers apart. Clean everything, and lube only metal to metal contact points with teflon lubricant. Replace the coil sleeves, but don't use any lubrication at all on the plungers. If the sleeves are aluminum, you can replace them with plastic ones.
Replace any worn or damaged parts and any springs that are stretched out. The Pinball Resource has spring kits for steppers.
Take a lot of pictures beforehand if you're not familiar with rebuilding these units.

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