(Topic ID: 143892)

Question about fee chargd for selling


By Blackbeard

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 109 posts
  • 45 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by chuckwurt
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 109 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 3 years ago

    My old ads (the ones I placed before the new changes) have now been "checkmarked" that I will pay the fees for the certain tier games I listed FS.

    Shouldn't these be grandfathered in? Why did pinside check them as "I will pay the fee" etc.?! I never consented to that originally!

    Confused (and haven't read the rule update). Can anyone explain if I'm grandfthered in here?

    Edit: as per pinside, ads prior to November 4th are not charged.

    #2 3 years ago

    You shouldn't be complaining about a free site!!! Leave!!!

    LOL

    Actually it's a good question, but I guess the answer is, no, you shouldn't be grandfathered in cause it's a pay site now. You are free to cancel the ads I suppose.

    #3 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You shouldn't be complaining about a free site!!! Leave!!!
    LOL
    Actually it's a good question, but I guess the answer is, no, you shouldn't be grandfathered in cause it's a pay site now. You are free to cancel the ads I suppose.

    I guess I didn't see the fine print!!!

    Old ads before the change should be grandfathered. If you look at my old ones, pinside has taken it upon themselves to check-off the box that i'll pay the fee. WTF?!

    #4 3 years ago

    If you don't mind me asking, how much is the fee?

    #5 3 years ago

    I wonder if trades will have to pay a fee?

    #6 3 years ago

    I was looking at my white water ad and I think the amount was like $35 or something.

    It's not the fee really, it's the fact that pinside went ahead and checked off the box that says I'll pay when I never consented to that. My ad is PRE fee charging changes. Should be grandfathered in IMO.

    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from vilant:

    If you don't mind me asking, how much is the fee?

    Games are organized into magical tiers. But basically CBW is tier 1, TZ is tier 5. Other stuff falls in between somehow.

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    #8 3 years ago

    What about all the FS: Northeast threads, etc? No one there has to sign up for payment!

    #9 3 years ago

    It's like $15......man up and pay it...!!! .....naa...I get your point....it should have been you who checked that box....but in the grand scheme....you could have just talked to a mod or Robin or Martijn....now this thread will bash the pay aspect a little....it's genius really....take World of Warcraft for example...many games like it to play for free..BUT..you charge a small fee and that keeps out (not all) BUT a lot of riff-raff....you wanna get rid of 99% of the trolls....charge to be here......kaneda will be the only one left... ..............Joey

    #10 3 years ago

    What if a machine is traded instead of sold? Do you still have to pay? I was actually toying with the idea of trading my very nice CFTBL for your WH2O, if you were even interested.

    11
    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    What about all the FS: Northeast threads, etc? No one there has to sign up for payment!

    You tattling bro?

    #12 3 years ago

    Wow, I didn't know Pinside started charging fees for posting for sale ads. Very interesting. Guess I'll stick with CL.

    #13 3 years ago

    It's ok law.....they started it..!!!......lol..Joey

    #14 3 years ago

    I don't mind paying a fee if I agree to it. I just don't like them signing me up to pay them on an old ad.

    #15 3 years ago

    If Pinside helps me sell a game I don't have the slightest problem paying them a small fee. I get to miss out on all the CL bullshit though, to bad.

    #16 3 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    I don't mind paying a fee if I agree to it. I just don't like them signing me up to pay them on an old ad.

    I totally agree with you. But remember what Robin said: collecting the fee is on the honor system. If you don't agree with the lack of a grandfather clause, just don't pay the fee on that game. But pay the fee for each subsequent game you list and sell in the future. I don't think that makes you a douchebag at all, and I doubt Robin would feel that way, either.

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I totally agree with you. But remember what Robin said: collecting the fee is on the honor system. If you don't agree with the lack of a grandfather clause, just don't pay the fee on that game. But pay the fee for each subsequent game you list and sell in the future. I don't think that makes you a douchebag at all, and I doubt Robin would feel that way, either.

    This kinda clears it up then. Thanks

    I'll probably just pay the fee (if the damn pins sell).

    #18 3 years ago

    It really ends up being a fee to BUY a game, as everyone listing now ads the fee to their price.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from yzfguy:

    It really ends up being a fee to BUY a game, as everyone listing now ads the fee to their price.

    The people who care about the money will just sell their games elsewhere rather than try to charge another 20 bucks. People who want to support Pinside or want their game advertised here are the ones who will pay it.

    #20 3 years ago

    Everyone cares about the money, otherwise they would be "for free" ads.

    #21 3 years ago
    Quoted from yzfguy:

    Everyone cares about the money

    Honestly I could care less about paying $15 to sell a $2500 pin.

    I will avoid those who make a point to pass that fee onto me when selling their games.

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    The people who care about the money will just sell their games elsewhere rather than try to charge another 20 bucks. People who want to support Pinside or want their game advertised here are the ones who will pay it.

    Quoted from yzfguy:

    Everyone cares about the money, otherwise they would be "for free" ads.

    I think if you're selling a $5,000 game and are losing sleep over a $35 fee it has to be a "principle of the thing" issue rather than a financial one. I don't see it personally, a 0.5% fee for a good platform to sell a game is worth that to me. Luckily there are other ways to sell pinball machines for those that don't like the Pinside fee structure.

    It will be interesting to see how the "Regional For Sale" threads are handled. They're arguably using somewhat less of the Pinside infrastructure since they're not listed in the market and usually don't have the same level of pictures/description/detail. I hope those just continue on their merry way, as it would be a shame to formalize them and lose that nice method of connecting with local pinheads (and avoiding shipping).

    It will also be interesting to see what happens with parts and mods. It appears Robin has decided not to add fees for those and I think that's very much the right decision!

    #23 3 years ago

    If you look at any other online marketplace platform for comparison, I find the fees Pinside is asking to be fantastically good for a potential seller. I see the frustration with having that pay box checked for you, but you always have the right to just close the ad if you don't want to pay the fee.

    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from Radagast:

    If you look at any other online marketplace platform for comparison, I find the fees Pinside is asking to be fantastically good for a potential seller.

    How much does CL charge?

    10
    #25 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    How much does CL charge?

    With Craigslist you have to deal with those crazy normal people. With Pinside you get to deal with picky collectors who want to go over every detail of the game.

    #26 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    How much does CL charge?

    Let's get some economists in here to help us put a dollar figure on the "flakey Craigslist buyer" phenomenon.

    #27 3 years ago
    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    With Craigslist you have to deal with those crazy normal people. With Pinside you get to deal with picky collectors who want to go over every detail of the game.

    Wait...did you call CL people normal? Have you done much buying/selling on CL?

    #28 3 years ago
    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    With Craigslist you have to deal with those crazy normal people. With Pinside you get to deal with picky collectors who want to go over every detail of the game.

    True. I hate CL people that ask me for a waxing chart for my game for sale

    #29 3 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    If Pinside helps me sell a game I don't have the slightest problem paying them a small fee. I get to miss out on all the CL bullshit though, to bad.

    Me neither. I listed a game in the local classifieds that most everyone uses and didn't get one response after a week. 24 hours after listing it on Pinside I had a buyer, was paid in full, and the NAVL shipping was set up. So easy.

    #30 3 years ago
    Quoted from vilant:

    What if a machine is traded instead of sold? Do you still have to pay? I was actually toying with the idea of trading my very nice CFTBL for your WH2O, if you were even interested.

    "-- and only if your items sells" Sell being the key term.

    #32 3 years ago
    Quoted from Breaking_Dad:

    It's like $15......man up and pay it...!!! .....naa...I get your point....it should have been you who checked that box....but in the grand scheme....you could have just talked to a mod or Robin or Martijn....now this thread will bash the pay aspect a little....it's genius really....take World of Warcraft for example...many games like it to play for free..BUT..you charge a small fee and that keeps out (not all) BUT a lot of riff-raff....you wanna get rid of 99% of the trolls....charge to be here......kaneda will be the only one left... ..............Joey

    I think your period key is sticking.

    #33 3 years ago

    I don't have anything to sell and I have no complaints about any fees.

    But for curiosity I looked in the for sale forum, didn't see any notice or sticky on fees.
    Then I went to put an ad in the market and got as far as naming the pin for sale without any notice of costs involved.

    If you are going to charge fees, I kinda think it should be plastered all over the top of any page where you list something for sale.

    #34 3 years ago

    how is it determined what tier the game is...is it based on dollar amount or title?
    is the fee the same for a beater project fathom as it is for a clearcoated HUO fathom?

    #35 3 years ago

    Seriously, the high end fee is $35 (or $26.25 if you donate)! Some people act like Robin is pulling our pants down and giving it to us rough and rowdy.

    I own nine games, have been a member for 3+ years, and my total fees up until this point would total less than $100. I have donated more than that anyway. It's blowing my mind that this is such a big deal.

    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    I think your period key is sticking.

    Maybe he posts after running on the treadmill.

    #37 3 years ago

    Look, this is Robin's site and he can do what he wants. If the sale is BECAUSE of the pinside listing, then I don't mind paying the fee. But, I multiple list when selling a game (ie: MrPinball, CL, here, RGP, etc).

    But, should this site be subsidized JUST by those selling games? What about all those people designing/selling mods, add-ons, etc and basically exclusively marketing here, are they being asked to pay something?

    Lastly, the way it was before was a good way of doing it. When your ad was marked sold, there was a suggestion to make a donation if Pinside helped you sell your game. But, I'm involved in this hobby in another way where we facilitate the sale of many, many games yet don't collect any commission. Not only that, at the Midwest Gaming Classic we will give you benefits for bringing your games whether they are there for sale or not.

    While I'm not opposed in principal to what Pinside is doing on this front, it does seem there are issues in how this change was presented and rolled out. Should you donate to Pinside if you use it regularly? Definitely. Do I think you should you be forced to do so? No. There are other sites who do that and I don't think the result is positive.

    My 2 cents.
    Jaz

    #38 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinpast:

    LOL, you silly.
    Every seller is now required to pay the fee.
    Seller gets money from buyer, seller pays fee
    with money he gets from buyer.
    ergo, buyer pays the fee.
    Buyer cannot avoid paying the fee.
    Do you really think the napkins from McDonalds are free???
    The customer pays for everything. Economics 101

    Of course the buyer pays the fee. I said I would avoid those who make a point of it in their add....like JD $2400 plus $15 Pinside fee.

    #39 3 years ago

    I think this site is great. I don't mind donating money to it since I use it so frequently and I'm not ashamed to admit how cheap I am $35 bucks is well worth it to not have to deal with some of the people on craigslist. I swear I meet the oddest people when I buy things off there.

    #40 3 years ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    how is it determined what tier the game is...is it based on dollar amount or title?
    is the fee the same for a beater project fathom as it is for a clearcoated HUO fathom?

    Maybe the asking for sale price would determine?

    NOPE, was wrong....I did a mock up for sale of a game and it was listed at level 5, before I even put a dollar amount on it.

    #41 3 years ago

    There is a fee too now for wtb ads also

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    My old ads (the ones I placed before the new changes) have now been "checkmarked" that I will pay the fees for the certain tier games I listed FS.
    Shouldn't these be grandfathered in? Why did pinside check them as "I will pay the fee" etc.?! I never consented to that originally!

    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    It's not the fee really, it's the fact that pinside went ahead and checked off the box that says I'll pay when I never consented to that. My ad is PRE fee charging changes. Should be grandfathered in IMO.

    You're absolutely right, these should be grandfathered in. I consider this a bug. When editing an "old" ad, the "I agree" part should not appear. Old being ads placed before November 4th.

    I'm sorry about this confusing issue!

    Quoted from vilant:

    I wonder if trades will have to pay a fee?

    We don't really have "for trades" anymore (or bidding, or make an offer etc) because we decided that all ads should carry a price. We have seen listing price being enforced on other classifieds sites/forums and really think that works well. Some may disagree to this, but we did weigh al the pros and cons and believe a mandatory listing price is the best way to go.

    You can still mark the "I prefer a trade" button to have your ad reflect that. And then you can put the list of trade candidates in your ad description.

    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    Games are organized into magical tiers. But basically CBW is tier 1, TZ is tier 5. Other stuff falls in between somehow.

    There isn't much magic about them other than the list not being published right now. Note to self: We should definitely list each game's tier on their respective archive page.

    So what we did is take last two years of successful (sold) ads with a verified price and then take the average sales price. This price falls within a tier. When you place your ad, the tier at the time of placing is stored and when you successfully sell your game, the ending screen will ask you for a contribution based on that tier.

    We use essentially the same routine to determine average price as we already do on each game's archive page. The only difference is that our price is not real time but is determined once per year, based on the last two years of data. The last time this routine was run (the moment in time all prices are based on) is September 24th.

    Quoted from vilant:

    What if a machine is traded instead of sold? Do you still have to pay? I was actually toying with the idea of trading my very nice CFTBL for your WH2O, if you were even interested.

    Thats up to you! You could consider it a "not sold" and note that it was a trade. Or you could consider it a sale, thank Pinside, and pay the fee. I'm not gonna be upset if you choose option 1. Ultimately the payment fee is still a voluntary choice. The difference being that you can no longer get the buyer feedback part (and the market statistic count +1) without paying the sales fee for your ad.

    Quoted from fosaisu:

    It will be interesting to see how the "Regional For Sale" threads are handled. They're arguably using somewhat less of the Pinside infrastructure since they're not listed in the market and usually don't have the same level of pictures/description/detail. I hope those just continue on their merry way, as it would be a shame to formalize them and lose that nice method of connecting with local pinheads (and avoiding shipping).

    We are considering offering a shortcut code to embed your ad listing in any post. That way you could include your ad in a regional for sale thread by simply inserting that little code snippet in your post.

    We could also enforce linking to an ad in those threads. Then it would still maintain the method of connecting and looking for games locally and at the same time give Pinside it's due if we helped you sell a game.

    But other than that, I haven't given the regional threads much thought, to be honest. We already have a rule in place since late last year, I believe, that makes it mandatory to place all ads through the market place. Are we gonna police every casual for sale mention all over Pinside. I think it's safe to say that's not something we should want. We're keeping an eye on this to make sure it doesn't get out of hand, but at this point in time I have no intention to close/disallow those local threads.

    Quoted from fosaisu:

    It will also be interesting to see what happens with parts and mods. It appears Robin has decided not to add fees for those and I think that's very much the right decision!

    That was indeed a deliberate decision. For now, we focus on a fee for game sales. Of course it would be great if people who make money with selling parts and mods should also contribute, but we do not want to put a payment burden on all mods because frankly lots of mods are nearly non-profit.

    What we have in mind is some cool plans to offer people the option to have their own little store on Pinside. But we still need to probe around and see if vendors would be interested in something like that.

    Quoted from jcar302:

    If you are going to charge fees, I kinda think it should be plastered all over the top of any page where you list something for sale.

    Good point, we will look over the communication aspect of the fees to make sure people understand that a fee payment is expected after successfully selling a game through Pinside market.

    Quoted from Jazman:

    Lastly, the way it was before was a good way of doing it. When your ad was marked sold, there was a suggestion to make a donation if Pinside helped you sell your game. But, I'm involved in this hobby in another way where we facilitate the sale of many, many games yet don't collect any commission. Not only that, at the Midwest Gaming Classic we will give you benefits for bringing your games whether they are there for sale or not.
    While I'm not opposed in principal to what Pinside is doing on this front, it does seem there are issues in how this change was presented and rolled out. Should you donate to Pinside if you use it regularly? Definitely. Do I think you should you be forced to do so? No. There are other sites who do that and I don't think the result is positive.

    I totally get that sentiment. And it wasn't an easy decision for me to make either. We tried what you are suggesting (asking for a voluntary donation) since February and practically nobody bothered with it (maybe only 1 of every 1000 people donated). So now that the fee is mandatory (well, kind of) we hope for an extra revenue stream which will help us further develop and maintain the Marketplace and Pinside as a whole. Yes, it's more aggressive, yet I do fully stand behind the concept of charging a small fee if you sold your game through Pinside, as I have explained in my update announcement last week.

    Quoted from musketd:

    There is a fee too now for wtb ads also

    No there isn't. Wanted ads are always free. The problem is that this is a bug in the placement page which makes it appear so. And that makes things really unclear. You only pay a fee if you successfully sell a game through Pinside.

    #43 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    True. I hate CL people that ask me for a waxing chart for my game for sale

    If some a**hole......er, um, Pinsider asked me for waxing chart, I would explain that my dog ate it.

    I don't have a dog.

    #45 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    What the hell is a waxing chart?

    I would have to assume a physical record of shopping out/waxing the playfield. We all make and keep those, right?

    #46 3 years ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    I would have to assume a physical record of shopping out/waxing the playfield. We all make and keep those, right?

    Hahaha. Good lord.

    #47 3 years ago

    If somebody asked for that from me, I'd simply tell them "thanks for your interest, but it's probably not the machine for you," then wait to sell it to somebody who's NOT a douchebag.

    #49 3 years ago

    I remember that sketch!

    #50 3 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Honestly I could care less about paying $15 to sell a $2500 pin.
    I will avoid those who make a point to pass that fee onto me when selling their games.

    Example: I have a free parts machine I'd like to give to the first one who come over to pick it up.
    However, There is a small "processing " fee.....

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