(Topic ID: 319263)

Question about Bally Freedom backglasses

By Sea_Wolf

1 year ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by jrpinball
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 1 year ago

    I’m close to buying a 1976 Bally Freedom (later edition) and after receiving additional pictures, I see that the backglass is pretty trashed as most of the ones I’ve seen usually are.

    Almost all the other Bally Backglasses that I see from that era are in pristine condition but not the Freedom. In fact, the 2 Bally’s I own from that era, Aladdin’s Castle and Wizard! Are still in near perfect condition.

    Are there any theories out there about this or does anyone know why this seems to be the case? Are there any other mid 70s Bally pins that are known to have backglass issues?

    Danny

    #2 1 year ago

    Yes the solid state version of freedom is a peeler also.

    #3 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballdaveh:

    Yes the solid state version of freedom is a peeler also.

    Luckily Bgresto has made this title before but I was hoping not to have come up with another $340. Guess I can enjoy the game and order a new BG later.

    #4 1 year ago
    Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

    Are there any theories out there about this or does anyone know why this seems to be the case?

    A theory commonly heard at Pinball Expo seminars is that if a batch of backglasses were screened on a very humid day, they are more likely to peel.
    .................David Marston

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from dmarston:

    A theory commonly heard at Pinball Expo seminars is that if a batch of backglasses were screened on a very humid day, they are more likely to peel.
    .................David Marston

    Sure makes a lot of sense.

    #6 1 year ago

    Didn't they have some type of climate control in the plant?
    It seems that many Bally titles have backglasses that are always found in good condition. I doubt that they were all produced under low humidity conditions. I would think that the condition of the surface of the raw glass would have much more to do with it.

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from jrpinball:

    Didn't they have some type of climate control in the plant?
    It seems that many Bally titles have backglasses that are always found in good condition. I doubt that they were all produced under low humidity conditions. I would think that the condition of the surface of the raw glass would have much more to do with it.

    I wonder if there are any other Bally pin’s backglasses from this era that are like Freedom. I haven’t heard of any.

    When I saw the original pictures I was hopeful but wary because of it being a freedom but the one pic of the backglass didn’t look too bad. Then I asked for additional pics and he sent one with the lights on and yikes….It looked like someone applied that wood glue Krackle stuff before it was screened. Cracking everywhere.

    #8 1 year ago

    I got really lucky, that my Freedom glass only has a little flaking in the flesh tones and even less in the reds.

    No idea why this particular glass has some much issues. Possibly the ink formula.

    Now, if only I could find the original non Italian bottom version.

    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

    I got really lucky, that my Freedom glass only has a little flaking in the flesh tones and even less in the reds.
    No idea why this particular glass has some much issues. Possibly the ink formula.
    Now, if only I could find the original non Italian bottom version.

    I thought I was going to be lucky too. It looked ok till the lights came on. Nothing I couldn’t live with for awhile but these are the pictures.

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    #10 1 year ago

    I wish they would have put a 1776 era American flag waving in the wind just behind the guys to give the BG a bit more pop to it.

    #11 1 year ago

    Mine has held up pretty well with a little flaking mostly on the clothing. The Old Chicago I have next to it doesn't have any flaking at all so it's interesting to hear why some glasses held up better than others. 0F5AE4FC-F6D0-4B18-A788-DA07556E43A7 (resized).jpeg0F5AE4FC-F6D0-4B18-A788-DA07556E43A7 (resized).jpeg

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    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bonk:

    Mine has held up pretty well with a little flaking mostly on the clothing. The Old Chicago I have next to it doesn't have any flaking at all so it's interesting to hear why some glasses held up better than others. [quoted image]
    [quoted image]

    I've never seen a flakey "Old Chicago" backglass.

    #13 1 year ago

    My Wizard is almost perfect.

    #14 1 year ago

    Mine is toast, but right now $350 isn't in the cards...maybe in a couple months. Wish there a cheaper option like the ones on ebay.

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from bonzo71:

    Mine is toast, but right now $350 isn't in the cards...maybe in a couple months. Wish there a cheaper option like the ones on ebay.

    You may want to ask one of them if they'd be interested in making them. Plenty were made and still running today with crappy BG's. Sounds like an opportunity to make quite a few sales if made from vinyl.

    #16 1 year ago

    Mine ended up pretty good. Only the dark blue in the pants seems to be gone. Unfortunately the scratches on the right side are there. I’ll eventually fix it

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    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from Garrett:

    My Wizard is almost perfect.

    So is mine, as is my Aladdin’s Castle.

    On a Gottlieb side note my Fast Draw original backglass is in near perfect shape but my Jumping Jack has a new Shay backglass that the previous owner ordered because the original was completely trashed. And that title, Jumping Jack/Jack in the Box backglasses are pretty notorious for flaking badly like the Bally Freedom from what I’ve seen.

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bonk:

    Mine has held up pretty well with a little flaking mostly on the clothing. The Old Chicago I have next to it doesn't have any flaking at all so it's interesting to hear why some glasses held up better than others. [quoted image]
    [quoted image]

    Looks nice and I just noticed you have the early production version with the 1776-1976 logo. Wonder if it’s mostly the later production glasses that had issues.

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from Garrett:

    You may want to ask one of them if they'd be interested in making them. Plenty were made and still running today with crappy BG's. Sounds like an opportunity to make quite a few sales if made from vinyl.

    I've previously reached out to the seller suggesting Freedom, but did not get a reply. This was a high production game and most backglasses are poor. I think it would sell more than most other titles.

    #20 1 year ago

    Yup. "Wizard!", "Flip Flop", "Aladdin's Castle", "Bow and Arrow" and many others ..... you never see a bad one.

    1 week later
    #21 1 year ago

    But Bally Hang Glider did not hold up very well.
    Very apt to fade and craze.

    #22 1 year ago

    Supersonic has the habit of just peeling off in one sheet

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    Supersonic has the habit of just peeling off in one sheet

    Supersonic is the era of the 4 Color process after Bally abandoned silk-screening. Agreed, they start by "alligatoring" typically at the bottom from moisture or glass cleaner that wicks up at the bottom channel and then just let loose from all the humidity and temperature changes and the 44 bulbs.

    Reduced cost, increased profits with the added benefit of planned obsolescence.

    #24 1 year ago

    After years of collecting mainly Gottlieb and Williams machines I thought a perfect original glass was an extreme rarity. Then I picked up a Bow & Arrow with a near perfect glass. Thought I must have gotten lucky until I also got a Flip Flop, Hi-Deal and Night Rider with near perfect glass as well. Wow Bally figured something out during that era.

    I thought someone stated at one time Bally used thicker glass. Theory was that it was less prone to expansion and contraction with temperature swings. Not sure if that is true?

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from AlexF:

    After years of collecting mainly Gottlieb and Williams machines I thought a perfect original glass was an extreme rarity. Then I picked up a Bow & Arrow with a near perfect glass. Thought I must have gotten lucky until I also got a Flip Flop, Hi-Deal and Night Rider with near perfect glass as well. Wow Bally figured something out during that era.
    I thought someone stated at one time Bally used thicker glass. Theory was that it was less prone to expansion and contraction with temperature swings. Not sure if that is true?

    The ink expands and contracts. Not the glass.

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from AlexF:

    After years of collecting mainly Gottlieb and Williams machines I thought a perfect original glass was 3an extreme rarity. Then I picked up a Bow & Arrow with a near perfect glass. Thought I must have gotten lucky until I also got a Flip Flop, Hi-Deal and Night Rider with near perfect glass as well. Wow Bally figured something out during that era.
    I thought someone stated at one time Bally used thicker glass. Theory was that it was less prone to expansion and contraction with temperature swings. Not sure if that is true?

    Older games used thicker glass as well, but the ink still deteriorated on them. Bally games of that era used plate glass, but so did earlier games by other manufacturers. Gottlieb went to thinner tempered glass somewhere around 1970.
    There's really no correlation between glass thickness or temper, and ink adhesion.

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