(Topic ID: 224952)

Question about a potential Bally Vector repair

By ClarkWGriswold

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by BigAl56
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

I am inching ever closer to making my first pin purchase and although I think I have decided that Firepower will be the pin I buy first, there is a Vector for sale in my general area.

I realize that opinions on Vector vary much more than on Firepower, in general; however, the Vector pin intrigues me. The Vector that is for sale apparently has a ball trough switch issue.....it won’t serve up a ball. As a brand new guy to this I have a question. I suppose that issue could be BOTH a board issue and a mechanical issue with the trough switch itself, yes?

I was also wondering if trough switches are a plug and play item amongst most pins of the same era....or would you be locked in to finding a specific OEM switch for a 1982 Bally Vector?

#2 5 years ago
Quoted from ClarkWGriswold:

I was also wondering if trough switches are a plug and play item amongst most pins of the same era....or would you be locked in to finding a specific OEM switch for a 1982 Bally Vector?

Looks like leaf blade switches all over the bottom :

https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2723&picno=50400&zoom=1

Should be available or something else easily used. All kinds of leaf blade switches available. Worst case scenario you might have to make new screw holes if you need to adapt something.

LTG : )

#3 5 years ago

Ball trough switches I wouldn't worry about. It could also be that the kickout coil is bad, or the transistor that controls it on the driver board is bad. Not a big problem either if you can do basic board work but not quite as easy as a ball trough switch.

If you could get it into switch and coil test you could find out for sure where the problem is

#4 5 years ago

Fair enough. I am a little puzzled as to why the current owner hasn’t addressed what does not appear to be a major issue on what appears to be a pretty damn nice pin. Maybe he is more of a check-writer than a wrench-turner...like me. Thanks for the feedback. I really do like the look of that Vector.

#5 5 years ago

To further comment on what zacaj said, if a coil was replaced on this game it may have easily been replaced with the wrong coil.

Vector used a solenoid expander board to be able to add more coils than the driver board was capable of. The SEB is a tiny board under the playfield with a light bulb on it. If the bulb burns out, the coils controlled by the board will no longer work. Also, all coils controlled by the SEB require TWO diodes instead of the normal single diode coils used everywhere else. If one of these special coils was replaced with a normal one it would cause very strange game behavior and could even damage components on the driver board.

This can be difficult to troubleshoot because the symptoms can be very different than the problem that was just "fixed". If the owner doesn't understand how the SEB circuit works they will never figure out where the problem lies. And if they had to replace driver board components they won't understand why the same components keep going bad.

The outhole coil is one of the coils controlled by the SEB.

If you buy the game (I've owned both Vector and Firepower and FP is the better game by far, IMO), come back here and we'll help you fix it.

#6 5 years ago

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the feedback. The relative rarity and fact that the Vector is essentially local piqued my interest, but I imagine that Firepower will be my entree into the hobby.

#7 5 years ago

check there is 3 balls in the game, and make sure the 3rd ball is registering on the switch wire that protrudes out of the apron

#8 5 years ago

This game does have unique trough switches that protrude out of the apron. I’m sure there are replacements out there, but I’ve never searched for them.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

This game does have unique trough switches that protrude out of the apron. I’m sure there are replacements out there, but I’ve never searched for them.

They're not the same that are used on fathom, elektra, etc?

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

They're not the same that are used on fathom, elektra, etc?

Not sure. Never seen another game use them. Well flight 2000 has similar ones, but not the same as vector.

#11 5 years ago

There are so many reasons to not buy Vector. Go with the Firepower.

#12 5 years ago

Here is some trivia about Vector from my days in the Bally Lab,
Designed by my good friend Greg Kmiec, Vector was so packed with targets and features I coined the phrase, 'Vector Syndrome' to describe games with so many objects on the playfield there was physically no room for the ball to roll. Bally wanted to clear out the parts warehouse so the designers were given freedom to throw anything and everything they could think of on the playfield.
Enjoy!

#13 5 years ago

I kinda dig all of the stuff on the Vector playfield but I understand I am in the minority. Now I just gotta find a Firepower in decent shape.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from ClarkWGriswold:

I kinda dig all of the stuff on the Vector playfield but I understand I am in the minority.

It's a cool game, don't get me wrong, but the play is very herky-jerky due to the 'Vector Syndrome' as BigAl mentioned.

#15 5 years ago

Vector can be a very challenging game, lots to shoot for, biggest problem I found were the flippers didn't have the strength it needed.
upgrade to Williams FT's and what a difference! Ball fly's!

#16 5 years ago

Vector trough switches can be problematic if someone has been bending them every which way

If you get the game, ask here for some photos of how they are supposed to look.

#17 5 years ago

Might want to inspect the Vector game. A person not that familiar with pinball may say "won't serve the ball up" when the game is completely dead and just the GI turns on.

#18 5 years ago

Well, just to keep the thought process going...seller says the Vector will boot up and go into attract mode but will not serve a ball. Says you can put a ball in the shooter lane and the pin will function correctly otherwise and keep score. Apparently it has a new MPU board and some aftermarket ROMs as well.

#19 5 years ago

What's he asking?

Do you own a meter?

#20 5 years ago

1500.00. Do I have a multimeter? Yes

#21 5 years ago

New MPU board is good, but you could buy a working Vector for 1500

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Vector trough switches can be problematic if someone has been bending them every which way
If you get the game, ask here for some photos of how they are supposed to look.

Can you post pics of how they are supposed to look so I can compare to my vector.

#23 5 years ago

Agreed. It’s a bit overpriced for not being fully operational based on my limited research. If possession is nine-tenths of the law, then it seems to me that fully operational ought to be nine-tenths of the price; however, I am not sure that rule applies all that often in arcade and pinball pricing/buying.

It would be nice to have enough technical experience with pinball machines to be able to hypothesize on possible issues and have some educated guess on their costs to fix. I enjoy the feedback and nuggets of wisdom anyway.

#24 5 years ago

I'll say that fixing the switches costs $10 max

Rebuilding the other things like the flippers, and pop bumper another $100

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

New MPU board is good, but you could buy a working Vector for 1500

This is true. I just sold one in KY for 1400

#26 5 years ago

Cool. I am new enough to this to not understand the technical process of elimination when approaching a problem like this. If, for instance, this is indeed a trough switch issue...how do you begin to determine whether it’s an electrical/mechanical issue with the switch itself or if it’s a board issue?

I was also concerned about parts availability for a pin like Vector versus something mass-produced like Firepower, for long-term maintenance sake. I don’t have a lot of room in my place for pinball machines, probably two at the most. I am going to find and purchase a Firepower, but those pop up relatively frequently. Not too many Vectors for sale out there and this one is in driving distance.

A dirty, unshopped Space Shuttle popped up yesterday locally and I really wanted to pull the trigger on it but would have had to do so sight unseen. If I was experienced technically, I would have jumped on it. Aaaarrgh.

#27 5 years ago

You should be able to get any parts you need for any of those machines, except maybe an MPU for Space Shuttle.

For Vector, put the game in self-test and run the coil test. Make sure all coils fire and they match the numbers listed in the manual. If some don't fire at all and others fire more than once, check the lamp on the SEB under the playfield to make sure it lights. If all the coils fire properly, then run the switch test with all balls removed and drop targets up. Manually press the trough switches and see if their switch numbers pop up on the display.

#28 5 years ago

2 possible problems, the ball feed solenoid is bad or a bad trough switch. Either should be an inexpensive repair.

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