(Topic ID: 217344)

Queen of Diamonds Back Box Lighting Out


By Pinball-DOOD

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 43 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by jrpinball
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

576CB606-B50F-4D65-A800-895652BD12FD (resized).jpeg
590222FF-16FE-4DEA-8468-CA18256537CE (resized).jpeg
697F2008-2192-4CC1-845F-04A5B30EBC48 (resized).jpeg
image (resized).jpg

#1 1 year ago

Hey all,
Turned on my QoD today and the backbox GI was out. Checked all over for loose connections and no luck. The backbox lighting fuse was ok but was over-amped. It was a 15 and should be a 10. Any ideas? Thanks!

#2 1 year ago

I'll need to see a high quality scan of the schematic from e.g. Staples ($2) or Kinkos ($6)

#3 1 year ago

Incorrect amperage on fuse may have blown bulbs instead. Have you checked to see if the bulbs are still good?

Plugs tight?

Is it score only or gi as well?

#4 1 year ago

Even though the fuse checks good make sure the fuse holder is making a nice tight connection and current is flowing. Also unplug the backbox jones plugs and plug them back in. They may not be making good connections either.

Mike V

#5 1 year ago

Fuse holder is very tight and the bulbs are good. Jones plugs probably need cleaning! What is the best solution for cleaning them? 91% alcohol?

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:

What is the best solution for cleaning them? 91% alcohol?

600# sandpaper.

#7 1 year ago

Sand paper as mentioned above or a green Scotch Brite pad (I use the pads as they create less dust). Scrub scrub scrub. They normally don't need a liquid.

#8 1 year ago

Thanks, Dudes. I will try this and report back to you all.

#9 1 year ago

No luck. I’ll post the schematics regarding the lightbox. Let me know what you all think

image (resized).jpg

#10 1 year ago

Fuse and plugs are most likely suspects. Post another photo a little higher up on the lamp side to be sure (need the whole circuit for the backbox lamps).

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Fuse and plugs are most likely suspects. Post another photo a little higher up on the lamp side to be sure (need the whole circuit for the backbox lamps).

Hope this helps!

697F2008-2192-4CC1-845F-04A5B30EBC48 (resized).jpeg

#12 1 year ago

Test a few of the bulbs in the backbox.
You may have blown out the whole string with an intermittent short to the solenoid circuit. I've seen this happen before.

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Incorrect amperage on fuse may have blown bulbs instead. Have you checked to see if the bulbs are still good?

Yep, I'm back to that as well.

#14 1 year ago

Do you have 6V AC between the black-white and white-red wires (the 6V supply lines) in the backbox?

/Mark

#15 1 year ago

Will check for the 6 Volt and the bulbs again. Thanks, guys

#16 1 year ago

Bulbs are ok. Found out that the backbox sort of lights when in Tilt mode. Any ideas?

590222FF-16FE-4DEA-8468-CA18256537CE (resized).jpeg

#17 1 year ago

Check your tilt relay. In normal operation, the tilt has a NC switch that powers the lamps. In tilt, the lamps should go off and the tilt lamp should lite.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Check your tilt relay. In normal operation, the tilt has a NC switch that powers the lamps. In tilt, the lamps should go off and the tilt lamp should lite.

Gotcha, thanks. What would a tilt relay in an EM look like?

#19 1 year ago

576CB606-B50F-4D65-A800-895652BD12FD (resized).jpeg

#20 1 year ago

Just like that!

The switch in question is a SPDT switch - the NC side is when the relay is not tripped. The NO side is activated when the game is tilted.

There are other switches in there - the schematic will show you the wire colors - White with a red tracer to white with a black tracer for the normal game operation pair.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Just like that!
The switch in question is a SPDT switch - the NC side is when the relay is not tripped. The NO side is activated when the game is tilted.
There are other switches in there - the schematic will show you the wire colors - White with a red tracer to white with a black tracer for the normal game operation pair.

Terrific! I’ll check out the schematics! Thanks!

#22 11 months ago

What do you think could be the issue? Could it be switch positions?

#23 11 months ago

Either switch positions or dirt. Probably just a little dirt or slight adjustment needed on that one switch. Examine carefully.

#24 11 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Either switch positions or dirt. Probably just a little dirt or slight adjustment needed on that one switch. Examine carefully.

Gotcha. Any chance this switch would cause the tilt light not to light up?

#25 11 months ago

Yes - the same switch single pole double throw either illuminates the tilt light or the backbox lights.

#26 11 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Yes - the same switch single pole double throw either illuminates the tilt light or the backbox lights.

Ohh ok. I really appreciate the help but I’ve been working on her for hours with no luck. I may call a repair tech who is better with EMs than I am haha. Thanks

#27 11 months ago

Not a problem, sorry I didn't explain it well enough - with the game unplugged, you can examine that relay more easily. You can manually trip the relay (with a pencil or wooden dowel). Observe the switches in the tilt relay. Make sure the ones that were made break, and those that were broken, make. Lift the little brass platform with a finger and it will click in place.

Observe the switches again.

If everything looks good, clean the switch. You can use many different things to clean the switches. A piece of sandpaper cut into strips, the flextone files Steve Young sells, a regular file, or even a business card drawn between the switch leaves.

Check adjustment again. And make sure the switch stacks are screwed down nicely. If that doesn't fix it, look for broken wires on the back of the relay.

You'll have it fixed in no time.

#28 11 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Not a problem, sorry I didn't explain it well enough - with the game unplugged, you can examine that relay more easily. You can manually trip the relay (with a pencil or wooden dowel). Observe the switches in the tilt relay. Make sure the ones that were made break, and those that were broken, make. Lift the little brass platform with a finger and it will click in place.
Observe the switches again.
If everything looks good, clean the switch. You can use many different things to clean the switches. A piece of sandpaper cut into strips, the flextone files Steve Young sells, a regular file, or even a business card drawn between the switch leaves.
Check adjustment again. And make sure the switch stacks are screwed down nicely. If that doesn't fix it, look for broken wires on the back of the relay.
You'll have it fixed in no time.

I’ll definitely try that! I’ll keep you updated, thanks

1 month later
#29 10 months ago

Still no luck! I’ve cleaned the switch and everything. Switch appears ok? Does anyone have a schematic of what the relay should look like?

#30 10 months ago

Should I check all the tilt switches next time I open it up?

#31 10 months ago

Wouldn't hurt - otherwise you have a broken wire coming off of that SPDT switch or between the switch and the jones plug. You can test for continuity using a multimeter. Try wiggling the wires a bit as well - sometimes there are cold solder joints and the solder will pop off of the switch. If that is marginal, you would get similar behavior.

#32 10 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Wouldn't hurt - otherwise you have a broken wire coming off of that SPDT switch or between the switch and the jones plug. You can test for continuity using a multimeter. Try wiggling the wires a bit as well - sometimes there are cold solder joints and the solder will pop off of the switch. If that is marginal, you would get similar behavior.

Gotcha, thanks. So the switch you are referring to would be any of the tilt switches?

#33 10 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

The switch in question is a SPDT switch - the NC side is when the relay is not tripped. The NO side is activated when the game is tilted.

I believe it will be the only single pole double throw switch in that tilt relay. Note that single pole double throw means that there is a long switch leaf that 'travels' between two sides. In one position of the relay plate, it will be making on one side (not tilted). When the relay is tripped, it will open on that side and make on the other side (tilted).

That's the only thing that controls the lamps in the game, aside from the fuse.

Now, the complicated bit is that it does run through a plug or two. But assuming you don't have a broken wire in the game, it must be in one of those places. Take a close look at the whole path, and I would encourage you to look at the schematic - it shows the switch I'm talking about on the left-hand side, and you can match wire colors and so forth. You've got this.

Here are things we know:
1) 6V is getting to the backbox.
2) 6V is not getting to the playfield
3) Bulbs are good (you tested those earlier in the thread).

#34 10 months ago

Right right, the only strange thing is that the game plays perfectly normal. Considering this, could we still be looking at a tilt problem?

#35 10 months ago

Yes - that relay has more than one switch. Only one controls the lamps.

#36 10 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Yes - that relay has more than one switch. Only one controls the lamps.

Alright great! When I depress the switch, the tilt activates normally but still doesn’t light the backbox

#37 10 months ago
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:

Alright great! When I depress the switch, the tilt activates normally but still doesn’t light the backbox

If there's a problem with the switch on the tilt relay, wouldn't all the game's GI lamps be unlit?

#38 10 months ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

If there's a problem with the switch on the tilt relay, wouldn't all the game's GI lamps be unlit?

Good point!

The backbox card lamps are in the same circuit as the playfield lamps. All run through the tilt switch. So, you're left with a broken/disconnected wire somewhere. I'm guessing that it is on the playfield. Black & White wire is common - see if you can find that wire (it's connected to one side of each socket) and use your meter's continuity beep option to see if you can tone from backbox to playfield socket. Then do the same for hot (the other side). Choose a socket like the title of the game and a socket on the playfield like the arch lights. GI.

#39 10 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Good point!
The backbox card lamps are in the same circuit as the playfield lamps. All run through the tilt switch. So, you're left with a broken/disconnected wire somewhere. I'm guessing that it is on the playfield. Black & White wire is common - see if you can find that wire (it's connected to one side of each socket) and use your meter's continuity beep option to see if you can tone from backbox to playfield socket. Then do the same for hot (the other side). Choose a socket like the title of the game and a socket on the playfield like the arch lights. GI.

Alright! Thanks, dudes! Getting closer

#40 10 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Good point!
The backbox card lamps are in the same circuit as the playfield lamps. All run through the tilt switch. So, you're left with a broken/disconnected wire somewhere. I'm guessing that it is on the playfield. Black & White wire is common - see if you can find that wire (it's connected to one side of each socket) and use your meter's continuity beep option to see if you can tone from backbox to playfield socket. Then do the same for hot (the other side). Choose a socket like the title of the game and a socket on the playfield like the arch lights. GI.

I’ve exhausted everything! No broken wires anywhere

#41 10 months ago

Bad fuse! Man, I feel stupid! Just metered it

#42 10 months ago

Someone swapped the fuse positions and confused everything. The fuse holders are placed in the wrong order

#43 10 months ago

Ach!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 399.95
From: $ 6.95
Cabinet - Other
Pinball Wheezer
$ 65.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
Texas Pinball
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Decals
Bright Lights Pinball
$ 26.95
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 199.99
From: $ 16.95
$ 219.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
$ 254.99
$ 10.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 7,499.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
$ 29.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 40.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
$ 174.99
$ 79.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 46.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside