(Topic ID: 131434)

Quality of CPR Backglasses ?


By DRD

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 94 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by exflexer
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“Do you think this quality is adequate for a $200 item ?”

  • Yes, I would happily buy one 22 votes
    34%
  • No, I would rather have a flawed original one 17 votes
    27%
  • Maybe, but only if the original backglass was really badly damaged or missing 25 votes
    39%

(64 votes)

Topic Gallery

There have been 8 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Screenshots_2015-09-30-08-31-03.png
torches-and-pitchforks.jpg
fathomcpr.jpg
fathom_bg.jpg
IMG-20140515-00322.jpg
DSC_9143.jpg
DSC_9141.jpg
DSC_9142.jpg

There are 94 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

Might I ask your opinions here please ?

I have owned pinballs for 15 years and have bought a variety of game specific repro parts for WPC and old Bally SS games - drop targets, pop bumpers, plastic sets, alltek boards etc. I have been happy with all of these. I am delighted that firms like CPR make the parts that help keep old Bally SS games like my Paragon, Vector and Fathom alive and looking good

I had never seen a CPR backglass before, but as I was happy with the CPR plastics I owned, I bought a Fathom backglass from the net for my game for $200 plus postage and taxes.

What do you guys think of the quality please ?? This backglass did not meet my expectations, but I am quite prepared to accept that my expectations may have been wrong.

I took these shots within the space of 5 minutes with a decent slr camera/ f2.8 lens/ mounted flash unit, tripod, backlit glasses, good ambient lighting. I uploaded these straight from my camera, they have not been photoshopped

Original diver detail. From the left of his chin to the right of his hair is about 3 inches on the actual backglass, and it is a similar size on my 14 inch laptop screen. So I have not sought to "zoom in" or exaggerate the detail you can see here ........

DSC_9142.JPG

CPR diver detail, note that the CPR is much "redder" and lower resolution. There are also visible vertical lines from the printing process

DSC_9141.JPG

Side by side shows the colour differences
DSC_9143.JPG

thanks for your thoughts

#2 4 years ago

CPR make some great parts, have bought many and will buy many more. In saying that, their Fathom backglass is an absolute shocker. Art work isn't good and the colors are way off, it looks horrid in comparison to an original. Better than no glass though I guess.

#3 4 years ago

Always found that the Fathom CPR backglass was somewhat low-res and washed out too.

I had one on order for mine but cancelled after seeing it. I will have an original touched-up instead, colors are way better.

#4 4 years ago

Contact CPR about it.

It almost looks like a color is missing from the screening process.

Here's what their reproduction is supposed to look like: http://www.classicplayfields.com/photo78.html

#5 4 years ago

Thanks for the suggestion, I have dropped a line to CPR

#6 4 years ago

I just received a new joker poker glass and it is gorgeous. I haven't had a chance to compare it to the original but the quality looks impeccable.

#7 4 years ago

I have a CPR Earthshaker backglass and it's awesome.
I'd buy another without question.

#8 4 years ago

I have a Fathom bg also and mine is not red like yours. Although the resolution is the same, poor, mine is bluer, like the original, but darker!

Not that its any consolation but the Fathom looks better than the Medusa one that I bought. Medusa, to me, was real grainy and dark. I wound up selling it and going back to the original bg.

I started a post on Pinside and Stu explained the whole CPR backglass process, including why they're not as dead on as the originals. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cpr-backglasses

Like the OP said "I am delighted that firms like CPR make the parts that help keep old Bally SS games....alive and looking good" but was hoping the quality of the bg were more in align with their playfields and plastics.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from DRD:

Thanks for the suggestion, I have dropped a line to CPR

Their FLash Gordon is just as bad. Flesh tones look like spray tan orange. Resolution is blurry. I took a $100 loss to sell it and found a mint original. It also had silk screen drag marks in it. Contacted CPR and was told it was the limitations of the silkscreen. The silverball mania is better I will say.

#11 4 years ago

From what I have seen in person, their early Bally repros are really hit and miss. I thought the Paragon glass was pretty bad onc you lit it up. Everything else I have seen, looks awesome. Their System 11 back glasses are stunning.

#12 4 years ago

That direct comparison shot says it all. As previous have said. Love that they do all these rare parts and glass but do it right. I'd not be happy with that one. I've had a joker poker and it was fantastic.

#13 4 years ago

I ordered a TAXI mirrored backglass but sent it back. It lacked all of Python's little details. I was told that because the printing process on glass is different than on a translight it is impossible to get the same detail. If that's the case I would rather have a repro translight than backglass. To much detail was lost.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

I have a CPR Earthshaker backglass and it's awesome.
I'd buy another without question.

I have one as well, and it looks great.

However I passed on the Whirlwind version as it looked awfully grainy to me. Stuck with the translite.

#15 4 years ago

I have bought 2 from them eatpm and taxi. And will continue to buy from them.

18
#16 4 years ago

Ok, a few explanations here:

1. Fathom: We didn't do the Artwork for this glass, we borrowed the Reproduction Dilms from Phoenix Arcade ( Darin ) which were actually done by a photographer. A Hi-Res photo was taken and Film Separations were made directly from the Photograph.

1B. Fathom: As for the "lines", this was an unfortunate hiccup in the screening process. Kevin was using a squeegee that was not wide enough for the entire glass width so he ended up having to make 2 passes on it. This has since been resolved. Now all glasses are done with a Single Pass of the squeegee.

2. Medusa / Flash Gordon / Paragon / Star Trek: Unfortunately all of these glasses were done under the 'old' production method that Kevin was using. Most of these glasses ended up with a heavy saturation due to many factors. We have since resolved all issues for CMYK "process" glass projects and have been extremely happy with the results ( ie: Elvira & the Party Monsters Backglass )

Note: We have resolved all the issues with the CMYK Process for silk-screening and all future projects will be done under this new process. We are looking to do Re-Runs of the titles listed above with the Production Process......

Stu
CPR Art Director

-1
#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

Ok, a few explanations here:
1. Fathom: We didn't do the Artwork for this glass, we borrowed the Reproduction Dilms from Phoenix Arcade ( Darin ) which were actually done by a photographer. A Hi-Res photo was taken and Film Separations were made directly from the Photograph.
1B. Fathom: As for the "lines", this was an unfortunate hiccup in the screening process. Kevin was using a squeegee that was not wide enough for the entire glass width so he ended up having to make 2 passes on it. This has since been resolved. Now all glasses are done with a Single Pass of the squeegee.
2. Medusa / Flash Gordon / Paragon / Star Trek: Unfortunately all of these glasses were done under the 'old' production method that Kevin was using. Most of these glasses ended up with a heavy saturation due to many factors. We have since resolved all issues for CMYK "process" glass projects and have been extremely happy with the results ( ie: Elvira & the Party Monsters Backglass )
Note: We have resolved all the issues with the CMYK Process for silk-screening and all future projects will be done under this new process. We are looking to do Re-Runs of the titles listed above with the Production Process......
Stu
CPR Art Director

Outstanding reply.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Their FLash Gordon is just as bad. Flesh tones look like spray tan orange. Resolution is blurry. I took a $100 loss to sell it and found a mint original. It also had silk screen drag marks in it. Contacted CPR and was told it was the limitations of the silkscreen. The silverball mania is better I will say.

Thanks, you just saved me a lot of money.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

Ok, a few explanations here:
1. Fathom: We didn't do the Artwork for this glass, we borrowed the Reproduction Dilms from Phoenix Arcade ( Darin ) which were actually done by a photographer. A Hi-Res photo was taken and Film Separations were made directly from the Photograph.
1B. Fathom: As for the "lines", this was an unfortunate hiccup in the screening process. Kevin was using a squeegee that was not wide enough for the entire glass width so he ended up having to make 2 passes on it. This has since been resolved. Now all glasses are done with a Single Pass of the squeegee.
2. Medusa / Flash Gordon / Paragon / Star Trek: Unfortunately all of these glasses were done under the 'old' production method that Kevin was using. Most of these glasses ended up with a heavy saturation due to many factors. We have since resolved all issues for CMYK "process" glass projects and have been extremely happy with the results ( ie: Elvira & the Party Monsters Backglass )
Note: We have resolved all the issues with the CMYK Process for silk-screening and all future projects will be done under this new process. We are looking to do Re-Runs of the titles listed above with the Production Process......
Stu
CPR Art Director

All well and good, but I'd be pretty upset if I spent $200+ on one of these and then "oh well he used the wrong squeegee".

#20 4 years ago

Nice explanation Stu. Thank you.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from radium:

All well and good, but I'd be pretty upset if I spent $200+ on one of these and then "oh well he used the wrong squeegee".

I was told that the drag marks were minimal and I had made it sound worse than it was when presented with pictures. Never mind the blurry orange skin tone. When I countered that PPS's website stated flawless reproduction worthy of an art piece I was told to deal with PPS. PPS told me I could ship it back on my dime for a refund. I declined and ate $100 to sell it. I do respect what CPR does, I just wish I would have known the limitations before buying.

#22 4 years ago

Stu, thanks for the update. Any idea as to when you might start to re-run said glasses? Although I have a CPR Fathom I would be interested in a re-run! Also, If/when the Fathom is re-ran will you all use different artwork thus resolving the grainy picture?

#23 4 years ago

Great reply from CPR as expected, without any sass!

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

2. Medusa / Flash Gordon / Paragon / Star Trek: Unfortunately all of these glasses were done under the 'old' production method that Kevin was using. Most of these glasses ended up with a heavy saturation due to many factors. We have since resolved all issues for CMYK "process" glass projects and have been extremely happy with the results ( ie: Elvira & the Party Monsters Backglass )

Any chance of a Medusa re-run to fix the problem?

#25 4 years ago

I picked up one of the first Paragon backglasses (in fact I ordered it the day it was announced). Haven't used it yet but it is noticeably different from my original (which was in fair condition). I'd be interested in looking at the re-run Paragon to see if it looks better and if it would be worth spending the $$ again.

#26 4 years ago

As I mentioned in my posting:

Quoted from Stu:

We are looking to do Re-Runs of the titles listed above with the Production Process......

Quoted from TigerLaw:

Any chance of a Medusa re-run to fix the problem?

These titles and about 20 others are on our list of projects to do, however, Keving does the scheduling not me, so at this point I have no idea of when any of these will get re-run.....

Quoted from meSz:

Any idea as to when you might start to re-run said glasses?

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

hese titles and about 20 others are on our list of projects to do, however, Keving does the scheduling not me, so at this point I have no idea of when any of these will get re-run.....

Thanks Stu!

#28 4 years ago

Would be awesome if you guys could squeeze off another run of Firepower glasses along with the Ballys..

#29 4 years ago

And Flight 2000, I need one of those.

#30 4 years ago

I'll take the Firepower & Flight 2000 under advisement....it will most likely be some time for these as we still have a lot of others in front of them, but I'll make note of it.....

#31 4 years ago

+1 for Firepower. Have an original that I can passably touch up, but a new one without spotted mirroring and with proper registrations would be awesome.

#32 4 years ago

My first repro glass purchased from CPR was Joker Poker and it is indeed gorgeous. I was expecting everything after it to be just as good and have been disappointed every time since. I have also purchased Medusa, Paragon, and Space Shuttle. The first two were dark (over saturated) and lacked definition. I understand now why (due to process/original source material) they turned out that way. However, Space Shuttle was so bad in terms of being over saturated with blue that I sent it back (at my expense, of course). How did that happen? Or was mine unique?

Re-runs that fix previous issues are great, but don't do much for those who trusted and invested up front only to end up disappointed upon opening their box. Is there any thought on offering re-runs at a discount to verified purchasers of the first run? I know these aren't massive profit makers for CPR, but spending close to $500 to get one glass that DOES meet expectations is tough to swallow. Obviously, I don't expect a discount for previous buyers to be taken seriously. It would just be a true demonstration of outstanding customer service.

Explanations like, "we used the wrong squeegee" certainly make one wonder what kind of QC is done before shipping out an item that is anything but inexpensive. Was there not any production testing done with the "wrong size" squeegee before people's checks were cashed?

I would not say that I won't buy another CPR backglass. On the contrary, I hope that they produce many more and that they will be ones that fit in my collection. However, now I will only purchase them after being able to hear others' feedback about a particular glass. I would love to be able to say, "Wow! A new CPR offering, let me order that NOW before it sells out!" Unfortunately, I do not have that level of confidence any more.

If CPR has resolved all of the production issues witnessed in previous offerings, then it is very good news for all of us! For everything they have done for this community, I am certainly willing to give them another chance.

-1
#33 4 years ago

WOW, $500 for a CPR Backglass? the most we have ever charged is like $239 ( about Half of what you said you paid ) so I have to assume that you bought it off the Secondary Market at a Very Inflated Price.......

Quoted from xeneize:

but spending close to $500 to get one glass

It had nothing to do with " QC "...It was a Learning Curve for CMYK Process Printing. Previously to these titles mentioned the only CMYK Backglass that had been done was Haunted House in 2005 and back then CPR didn't have the scrutiny that we do now. Kevin is very anal abut QC and we are striving to make it better as we go along.

Quoted from xeneize:

Explanations like, "we used the wrong squeegee" certainly make one wonder what kind of QC is done before shipping out an item that is anything but inexpensive. Was there not any production testing done with the "wrong size" squeegee before people's checks were cashed?

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

WOW, $500 for a CPR Backglass? the most we have ever charged is like $239 ( about Half of what you said you paid ) so I have to assume that you bought it off the Secondary Market at a Very Inflated Price.......

Stu: $239 for the first one + $239 for the corrected one + shipping from Canada = around $500.

#35 4 years ago

You bought 1, didn't like it, so you bought a 2nd one without returning the first one for a Full Refund? Why would you do that? We will take back any CPR product that you purchase directly from us with a Full Refund. Just trying to get the Whole Story Here.....

>Stu: $239 for the first one + $239 for the corrected one + shipping from Canada = around $500.

#36 4 years ago

Their BoP is great. Their Paragon, not so much. I liked it at first, but then compared it with the original. Fathom too--their Fathom is crap. I've had good experience with their playfields, but know of others who have had nightmares. They kind of f***ed over my pinball league by yanking their yearly sponsorship over one of the CPR guys being butt-hurt, so I'm not thrilled with them at present.

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

WOW, $500 for a CPR Backglass? the most we have ever charged is like $239 ( about Half of what you said you paid ) so I have to assume that you bought it off the Secondary Market at a Very Inflated Price.......

It had nothing to do with " QC "...It was a Learning Curve for CMYK Process Printing. Previously to these titles mentioned the only CMYK Backglass that had been done was Haunted House in 2005 and back then CPR didn't have the scrutiny that we do now. Kevin is very anal abut QC and we are striving to make it better as we go along.

A reasonable QC process means running your operational/manufacturing process from start to end. At the end, you measure the final product against a quality standard (in this case, the source art/glass). That QC process and subsequent inspection will reveal any significant variances from the original (color variations/vertical lines/significant loss of detail). If the final product being marketed as a reproduction is significantly different from the original, those variances should be clearly called out to the customer prior to selling the product in the event that the manufacturing process cannot be changed to eliminate/reduce the variances. A robust QC process, will in fact help the manufacturer along that "learning curve" you mentioned to ensure that nothing is sold that does not meet standard.

Again, please don't misinterpret my feedback as a loyal customer as mud-slinging. I want for CPR to succeed and thrive. We need you guys! We simply want you to do it as well as it can possibly be done and not be surprised (in a bad way) when that beloved glass finally makes it to us. Personally, I am excited to hear the issues of the past have been resolved and look forward to future offerings from you guys!

Quoted from Stu:

You bought 1, didn't like it, so you bought a 2nd one without returning the first one for a Full Refund? Why would you do that? We will take back any CPR product that you purchase directly from us with a Full Refund. Just trying to get the Whole Story Here.....
>Stu: $239 for the first one + $239 for the corrected one + shipping from Canada = around $500.

I have never purchased two of the same glass from CPR. My $500 remark was directed towards my original purchase of a $239 glass and a future purchase of another corrected glass if I decided to invest in a re-run. That would mean I have then invested over $500 to get the one glass I hoped to get the FIRST time I bought it. But, it sounds like that won't be a decision I have to make any time soon, because you have plenty of "first run" items in the queue - more fantastic news, sir!

#38 4 years ago

Greg, I told Mark & Jim 2 years ago that CPR was no longer going to provide FREE Playfields, FREE Backglasses, and FREE Plastics as Door Prizes. The reason for this was the Lack of Support from the APPL in Purchasing CPR Products throughout the years. We know how many purchases had been made since "I" instituded the Door Prize Give-Away, and I can you this, we (CPR) gave away more than $25,000 in Door Prizes for FREE, with very little support in return. The whole idea of Sponsoring is to get it back in sales > which we Never did, Not Even Close.....So you should really get the Correct Story FIRST before you say something like " They kind of fucked over my pinball league by yanking their yearly sponsorship over one of the CPR guys being butt-hurt"......I quit the APPL because of Bad Politics and people starting Rumors like the one you just did...

Quoted from pinlawyer:

They kind of f***ed over my pinball league by yanking their yearly sponsorship over one of the CPR guys being butt-hurt, so I'm not thrilled with them at present.

#39 4 years ago

I think that as consumers we are so spoiled by our ability in regular retail settings to 'return anything, no matter what'.

Recreating art that's sometimes 30-40 years old is hard. There's going to be imperfections. It sounds like the OP got a genuinely incorrect one, and I'm sure CPR and the OP can figure something out. But yeah, these aren't original. My Taxi backglass looks different than the translite... some good (mirroring is fantastic), some less good (loss of small amounts of detail due to process). But considering that the supply of these items is basically zero in a lot of cases, we should all be very thankful that CPR is making this stuff, and charging reasonable prices. CPR is not getting rich off this stuff by any means.

#40 4 years ago

And we did just that > "At That Time"....and we LEARNED From It & Have Fixed it.....

Quoted from xeneize:

We simply want you to do it as well as it can possibly be don

#41 4 years ago

I've been told a vastly different story, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. 6 years of APPL=6 playfields, 6 backglasses and 6 plastic sets. $25,000?!

#42 4 years ago

And you have been Lied to.....Kevin Supports My Decision and Agrees with it....

In fact, as a consolation to abrupt stop I even offered to provide Backglasses & Plastics for the 2015 Season and JIM REFUSED To Accept Any of the product > I have the Emails to Prove it.....Face it, you have been Lied to....

Quoted from pinlawyer:

I've been told a vastly different story, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

#43 4 years ago

Just who are you trying to lie to now! We have given away over 45 Sets of Plastics, more than 18 Backglasses, and 5 Playfields....as well as Numerous "extra" stuff to the APPL Membership like the products I gave away at Donnie's Relief Pinball Event. You are trying to "publically" make CPR look bad when all we did was give away FREE Pinball Products > Get A Life!
.
Ungrateful People....

Quoted from pinlawyer:

6 years of APPL=6 playfields, 6 backglasses and 6 plastic sets. $25,000?!

#44 4 years ago

I believe the $25,000 referenced was overall, not to the APPL in specific.

I was disappointed in some of the loss of detail in my Taxi BG, but I was delighted by other aspects. I decided to keep it knowing full well I could have returned it. I look forward to purchasing more CPR products, including BGs. Glad to hear the process has been improved.

My thanks to those who produce parts for the community and my thanks to those who make thoughtful, respectful evaluations of products.

Go pinball!

Steve

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from meSz:

Stu, thanks for the update. Any idea as to when you might start to re-run said glasses? Although I have a CPR Fathom I would be interested in a re-run! Also, If/when the Fathom is re-ran will you all use different artwork thus resolving the grainy picture?

Hopefully, it will be fixed. There is also "blood" in the water surrounding the boat in the upper left corner that shouldn't be there.

It doesn't bother me personally, but I know it bothers people who are interested in doing correct restorations.

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

I've been told a vastly different story, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. 6 years of APPL=6 playfields, 6 backglasses and 6 plastic sets. $25,000?!

Bitching that someone stopped giving you free stuff is just poor form. CPR provided Cincy Pinball League with several prizes over the years.. we are thankful for them and would have no problem with CPR if they stop providing promotional items.

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

I'll take the Firepower & Flight 2000 under advisement....it will most likely be some time for these as we still have a lot of others in front of them, but I'll make note of it.....

Rerun or not, I bet you'd sell out a run of 500 firepowers before the first ink ever hit glass. 15000 games out there... your first run barely dented the demand! I bet there's at least 500 people in the same boat as me (having bought a FP with crappy glass AFTER your run was over) ... My money's waiting...

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Bitching that someone stopped giving you free stuff is just poor form. CPR provided Cincy Pinball League with several prizes over the years.. we are thankful for them and would have no problem with CPR if they stop providing promotional items.

Hahah, all we get is imaginary points a small trophy in our leagues

#49 4 years ago

I could be wrong here but I tend to disagree with this....The first run we did of Firepower BG took us over 2 months to sell out & we only ran 125 of them.....Not that I'm saying we shouldn't do a re-run, we should, but we need the demand to go up to atleast 100 before we do it, otherwise we have all that financial expenses sitting on a shelf waiting to be sold for months & months when we could have used that capitol to make something else that wouldn't be sitting on a shelf waiting, like a "first run" title.......

Quoted from metallik:

I bet you'd sell out a run of 500 firepowers before the first ink ever hit glass.

#50 4 years ago

These guys do great work. They learn from mistakes and make good on errors.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 155.00
$ 9.00
Cabinet Parts
Third Coast Pinball
$ 50.00
$ 44.99
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 149.95
Boards
Allteksystems
There are 94 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside