(Topic ID: 298008)

Q: rottendog power driver gi is all dim

By pinballplusMN

75 days ago


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  • Latest reply 72 days ago by pinballplusMN
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    WDB95-4 (resized).JPG
    WDB95-3 (resized).JPG
    WDB95-2 (resized).JPG
    WDB95-1 (resized).JPG
    RD WDB095 5V.png
    RD WDB095 GI.png
    IMG_5977 (resized).jpg

    #1 75 days ago

    I have a rottendog power driver board I'm troubleshooting for a customer. Brand new . Gi only puts out 3.5 volts lamps are all half brightness on all strings. Dimming works in test but it's like im starting at 3 intensity when should be 7. Plugs good. Another board works perfect. Any ideas? Thanks!

    #2 75 days ago

    On those big black heat sinks, the drivers are all bad. On a conventional Williams WPC power driver board, those drivers are TRIACS. On a Rottendog, they did things differently..... they used special voltage regulators that looked like triacs. We had one Rottendog WPC power driver board where all of the GI drivers were bad and only outputting 2 volts to the bulbs.

    I remember we had to get the exact numbers off of the bad parts. We had to get them from out of the country because nobody in the USA had them at the time.

    #3 75 days ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    On those big black heat sinks, the drivers are all bad. On a conventional Williams WPC power driver board, those drivers are TRIACS. On a Rottendog, they did things differently..... they used special voltage regulators that looked like triacs. We had one Rottendog WPC power driver board where all of the GI drivers were bad and only outputting 2 volts to the bulbs.
    I remember we had to get the exact numbers off of the bad parts. We had to get them from out of the country because nobody in the USA had them at the time.

    Good to know. Did something cause them to all go bad? Bad batch possibly? Do all rotten dog driver boards have this issue? I suppose I cant use triacs in a rd board. Just wondering what's best for my customer. The transformer hums when the rd board is used as well as it's under stress when gi hooked up. Crappy rd design .
    Thanks for responding and your help. Jr

    #4 75 days ago

    I purchased a big lot of bally transformer boards from RD and almost every board has fuse clips broken. Any good idea where to get the proper amp clips?

    Quoted from KenLayton:

    On those big black heat sinks, the drivers are all bad. On a conventional Williams WPC power driver board, those drivers are TRIACS. On a Rottendog, they did things differently..... they used special voltage regulators that looked like triacs. We had one Rottendog WPC power driver board where all of the GI drivers were bad and only outputting 2 volts to the bulbs.
    I remember we had to get the exact numbers off of the bad parts. We had to get them from out of the country because nobody in the USA had them at the time.

    IMG_5977 (resized).jpg
    #5 75 days ago

    Get the fuse clips from Great Plains Electronics.

    https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=32

    They stock regular and high current fuse clips.

    #6 75 days ago
    Quoted from pinballplusMN:

    Good to know. Did something cause them to all go bad? Bad batch possibly? Do all rotten dog driver boards have this issue? I suppose I cant use triacs in a rd board. Just wondering what's best for my customer. The transformer hums when the rd board is used as well as it's under stress when gi hooked up. Crappy rd design .
    Thanks for responding and your help. Jr

    Ours was a defective board right out of the box (with a 2020 date). I'm assuming they had bad batches of components and were not testing every board they made.

    #7 74 days ago

    I have what sounds like the same GI problem with my Rottendog driver board. Does anyone work on these? I don't have the skill and would only do more damage if I tried to work on it.

    #8 74 days ago

    I'm wondering if William's style triacs can be used to fix the issue.

    #9 74 days ago

    Following

    #10 73 days ago

    I just had a look at the board I fixed. It was a Rottendog "WDB95" which is for WPC95 machines. This has three black heat sinks for the general illumination circuits.

    The special drivers are type LM1085-IT-5.0 and have an associated 2N5401 transistor with each one on the board.

    On Rottendog power driver boards for WPC89 systems, those use five type MAC210A8G drivers and an associated 2N5401 transistor for the general illumination.

    #11 73 days ago

    Drivers?
    LM1085's are actually low-dropout voltage regulators - 5V, 3A.

    ... confused.
    Are they actually using a 5V regulator to the lamps and turning the regulators on and off?
    Note that although they are rated up to 3 amps - in order to get three amps through them, they must be kept within liquid nitrogen.
    Novel idea, though.

    #12 73 days ago

    schematics RD WDB095
    RD WDB095 GI.png
    RD WDB095 5V.png

    #13 73 days ago

    Picture is worth 1000 words.
    Curious - which TRIAC are they using?

    #14 73 days ago

    LM1085 is what is actually installed on the WDB95 board when we unboxed it and then we put it in a machine.

    I could get a picture, but not today.

    The MAC210A8G which was installed on a WPC89 power driver board is a device number I am unfamiliar with. I've never seen or heard of that number before. Don't know what it is.

    #15 73 days ago

    I wonder if the LM1085's used at the TRIAC locations were a manufacturing error that didn't get caught during their 'strenuous testing'.

    Regarding TRIACSs --
    MAC210A8G -- formerly made by On-Semiconductor (Motorola). On-Semi sold off TRIACs and SCR's to Littelfuse (yes, the fuse manufacturer) so they are now made by Littelfuse.

    Just a quick scan through the data sheets and compared the MAC210A8G to the often used BT138-600E:
    Both are rated for 600V which is more than adequate.
    MAC210A8G has a 10 amp rating, BT138 has a 12 amp rating.
    The MAC210 requires 3x to 5x the amount of gate current (IGT) to trigger the TRIAC.
    The MAC210 has a slightly higher VGT trigger voltage than the BT138.
    Since the gate is driven by a 2N5401 - I don't see VGT or IGT being the issue.
    Not a lot of difference but the BT138's were a tiny bit better than the MAC210s in nearly all other specs, I didn't see any real show stoppers other than the three small ones listed above.
    Note - I only glanced through the specs and didn't do any real digging into this.
    One thing that can make a big difference -- is the heatsink used by RD the same as those used on the original Wms boards?

    Probably the reason they used the MAC210s - they're widely available while the BT138-600E parts are a bit harder to find and cost more.
    The pinouts were the same and so is the biasing circuit - the BT138-600E parts can be a direct replacement.

    #16 73 days ago

    When we first plugged in that Rottendog WDB95 after unboxing it, we smelled something hot! That's when we noticed part of general illumination was out. We then installed a rebuilt genuine Williams driver board and everything was fine (lights all working and no more hot smell). You think someone at Rottendog installed the wrong parts?

    #17 73 days ago

    An LM1085 has 5 legs while the triacs have 3 - both are in TO220 packages but I can't see how anyone would attempt to fit a 5 leg part when there are only 3 holes?

    #18 73 days ago

    The LM1085 installed by Rottendog has only three leads.

    #19 73 days ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    The LM1085 installed by Rottendog has only three leads.

    OK, that makes more sense. I wasn't aware that this part came in a 3P version. Thanks for enlightening me!

    #20 73 days ago
    Quoted from pindel:

    I purchased a big lot of bally transformer boards from RD and almost every board has fuse clips broken. Any good idea where to get the proper amp clips?
    [quoted image]

    .

    #21 73 days ago

    Why would you high jack this mans thread? This is about his driver board not your transformer boards. Come on you do not know where to buy these, you have some of the highest prices (ebay.com link: buythru) on your machines and say they are restored but you don't know where to find fuse clips? Start your own thread.

    Quoted from pindel:

    I purchased a big lot of bally transformer boards from RD and almost every board has fuse clips broken. Any good idea where to get the proper amp clips?
    [quoted image]

    #22 73 days ago

    Return the Rottendog to your distributor if you can and buy one of these:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs

    Vince's boards are excellent and constructed as close to OEM specifications as possible.

    #23 73 days ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Return the Rottendog to your distributor if you can and buy one of these:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs
    Vince's boards are excellent and constructed as close to OEM specifications as possible.

    It's been a year since we bought that Rottendog board.

    We talk to Victor Tan all the time. He comes to visit us every so often and try out boards in our machines. He's located about an hour away from us.
    EDIT: Victor was just here for a couple of hours today.

    #24 72 days ago

    Here are pictures of that WDB95 board with the LM1085 IT-5.0 installed for the general illumination circuit. Notice they are attached to the heat sinks with pop rivets!
    WDB95-1 (resized).JPGWDB95-2 (resized).JPGWDB95-3 (resized).JPGWDB95-4 (resized).JPG

    #25 72 days ago

    WOW! Clearly they were shipping untested boards.

    #26 72 days ago

    Thanks for the advice! So just to clarify what 5 Triacs should I order to fix the rotten board and who may have stock? Thanks in advance! Jr

    #27 72 days ago

    Are those regulators the only things that would need replacement?

    #28 72 days ago
    Quoted from pinballplusMN:

    Thanks for the advice! So just to clarify what 5 Triacs should I order to fix the rotten board and who may have stock? Thanks in advance! Jr

    You can use either of these:

    MAC210A8G (Digikey has these)
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/littelfuse-inc/MAC210A8G/918546?s=N4IgTCBcDaILIEEDCYCMAGAhgDgOYgF0BfIA

    BT138-600E (Digikey also stocks this and at a good price)
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/ween-semiconductors/BT138-600E-127/1155157

    #29 72 days ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Are those regulators the only things that would need replacement?

    Yes, that appears to be the only incorrect parts that were installed on the WDB95 board. The associated 2N5401 transistors might have been damaged, but I don't think so. Just the three black heat sinks grouped together had the incorrect parts.

    The big black heat sink in the upper left all by itself is the actual 5 volt regulator power supply. Leave that one alone.

    #31 72 days ago

    A great excuse to give ed some business!

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