(Topic ID: 21437)

Putting 10 pins back out on location

By vid1900

11 years ago


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  • 136 posts
  • 50 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by Richthofen
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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    #1 11 years ago

    My buddy James "King of Cranes" wants to deploy some pins as an experiment.

    Since he has both Liability and Loss insurance with his Video and Crane Games, and already has amusement licenses in 8 surrounding cities, our experiment will not cost us anything but time.

    He has chosen a few "pick up joints" on his route where 18-30 year old males go to have sex with girls. James believes those kids will put money into pinball, I say I doubt it.

    All this week I'm going to be putting legs on some games in my pole barn and get them working 100%.

    I'm not putting any good cabs out, as the kids always F them up, but all playfields will be unworn
    and looking sharp.

    I'm also putting in a bunch of LEDs so they will have much bling power.

    We both agree that if a game can't pull $60 a week, it will actually lose money because of maintenance costs - even though the games obviously have already paid themselves off years ago. His better location Crane games top $100 a week easily.

    Should be interesting.

    #2 11 years ago

    Your $60.00/week to cover MX costs seems off.
    At an even split, that is over $100/month for repairs, lights, rubber, etc...
    With LED's the lights shouldn't be an issue.
    Rubber a game completely yearly or less, more for just flippers, etc. (black lasts longer)
    That leaves minor parts etc.+ the big one, ...Labor!
    Even bulletproofed at home, expect alot of repair calls in the first few weeks/month.
    After that the calls should recede, but so will some earnings.
    Then you can just do it for the love of PINBALL!!!
    Crane games are carnie
    -DNO-

    #3 11 years ago

    60 Bucks a week for a game, I never understood how this is very profitable. Even at 100 dollars a week per game on location, does the location get any of that profit?

    #4 11 years ago

    Im very interested to see how this experiment goes.

    When you decide id also like to know what titles you pick

    -Jeff

    #5 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    We both agree that if a game can't pull $60 a week, it will actually lose money because of maintenance costs

    That seems high. I've got 4 at one location, and if they make $60 a week (in total, after the 50/50 split with the location, for all four machines) I'm super happy!

    Weekly maintenance, let's see, some Novus 1 and lint free cloth for the play field, some windex and paper towel for the glass. What else are you doing to them?

    The odd time I've had to spring for replacement parts, but nothing outrageous. Mostly it's flipper rubber and balls.

    #6 11 years ago

    Every brittle old ramp that cracks will cost $120-150 nowadays.

    Fuel is $4 a gallon.

    Van requires lease payment, commercial insurance, license plate, maintenance.

    Liability insurance is crazy high compared to when I had my routes. Much more than the loss part of the insurance.

    Obviously were doing the switch trick on the licenses - but they would run $200 a year per machine.

    James' employees who drive around to collect coinbox and service make $19 an hour + whatever you have to pay for their Social Security taxes.

    His building cost money to heat, cool, electrify, more insurance, parts in storage, who knows what else, accountants have to be paid, paychecks deposited.

    We crunched the numbers, a game has to make $60 a week to keep it from being a liability.

    #7 11 years ago

    Yah, I guess that would make sense then. It's a side thing for me, so most of those expenses don't apply.

    #8 11 years ago
    Quoted from way2wyrd:

    When you decide id also like to know what titles you pick

    I've got Attack from Mars, Adams Family, F-14 (these always made $$$), LOTR, South Park, BK2000, Harley Davidson, Comet (another $$$$ maker) all that I know I can get up and running easily.

    MM is too much money to put out, as is Tron LE and Cirqus Voltaire.

    I have Elvira, Family Guy, Fathom, NASCAR, all that need some fixing but I don't remember what. G&R that needs transformer, STTNG needs a ramp and maybe something else expensive.

    I really just need to set up a Triage and put stuff on auto burn in.

    #9 11 years ago

    Cool experiment.Ill tag this as a fav interestd to see how it turns out.

    10
    #10 11 years ago

    screw pinball...

    can I please have the locations of these places to have sex w girls?

    -jon

    #11 11 years ago

    If you get 10 pins making at least $60.00 a week,you are doing well.Our best location brings in about $180.00 a month then we have to split that 50/50.The biggest hassle is loading up your vehicle full of parts,driving to the location and trying to fix it on site.If it is in a bar you got no light,you can't breath for the cigarrette smoke,the music is so loud you can't think and the whole bar is looking over your shoulder asking a million questions.Another thing is every time some kid say's he lost his money,they slap an out of order sign on it and don't let you know until you show up to collect the money for the month.I have had kids come up to me and said the game took there money but just didn't know how to push the start button.I could go on and on about the negatives,do it for the love of the game.

    #12 11 years ago
    Quoted from bigehrl:

    screw pinball...
    can I please have the locations of these places to have sex w girls?
    -jon

    You think you still remember what to do with 'em?

    Girls are into crazy stuff nowadays...

    #13 11 years ago

    Get a SP on location. That thing is a money making machine at the local arcade and theres over 120 machines on location. It amazes me how many people dump coins into that thing! Plus it looks fairly simple as far as potential problems.

    #14 11 years ago
    Quoted from brz:

    The biggest hassle is loading up your vehicle full of parts,driving to the location and trying to fix it on site.If it is in a bar you got no light

    I used to bring an auto trouble light, now they have these super bright LED ones that run on rechargeable batteries and are magnetic.

    Quoted from brz:

    you can't breath for the cigarrette smoke

    They made that illegal maybe 8 years ago in our state.

    Quoted from brz:

    the music is so loud you can't think and the whole bar is looking over your shoulder asking a million questions.

    Never clear the cashbox or do service at night. That is a safe daytime activity only. If you are doing it on the side, you should pick a Sunday morning before the football crowd comes in.

    Always wear headphones (not plugged in, just into your shirt) if you are forced to do a service call when customers are present. If they ask anything, keep pulling one phone off your ear and yell "What????" a few times. If they persist say "I can't hear the diagnostic tones and hear you at the same time. I'll come over to your table when I'm done..." and shoo them back where they came from. (some Fluke meters really do have that headphone port, and I assume it's just to be antisocial)

    Anyone asking for a refund, always hand out a business card from a competing route. Give them an inconvenient time to call "Call between 6 and 6:30AM, and ask for Shitter Sam". "I'm just his slave, he does not allow us techs to do refunds - He says if we carry around money, we might get our asses robbed"

    #15 11 years ago

    What state are you in?

    #16 11 years ago
    Quoted from brz:

    What state are you in?

    OH

    #17 11 years ago

    Some pins make $40-$60 a week for us at good locations. We're just lucky, we have the oldest most run-down crap in town.

    #18 11 years ago

    may be suprised, I am in the bay area CA and I think the pins on location at bars do pretty well. May I suggest you get someone to host a tournament night at one of the bars that has a few of them. They do that out here and do pretty well.

    #19 11 years ago
    Quoted from practicalsteve:

    I suggest you get someone to host a tournament night at one of the bars that has a few of them.

    That's cheating and would ruin our experiment. A tournament would bring 50 year old guys to the bar to play.

    This needs to be a totally organic experience. The kids either play enough pinball or they don't.

    #20 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I used to bring an auto trouble light, now they have these super bright LED ones that run on rechargeable batteries and are magnetic.

    I'm all about the strap-on head lamp, personally. It looks dorky but comes in so handy when working in dark locations!

    #21 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Since he has both Liability and Loss insurance with his Video and Crane Games, and already has amusement licenses in 8 surrounding cities, our experiment will not cost us anything but time.

    Are you saying the pinball machines will be in these 8 surrounding cities ?

    LTG

    #22 11 years ago
    Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

    60 Bucks a week for a game, I never understood how this is very profitable. Even at 100 dollars a week per game on location, does the location get any of that profit?

    Maybe that is why pinball machines are fast disappearing from locations ?

    LTG

    #23 11 years ago
    Quoted from bobbyconover:

    I'm all about the strap-on head lamp, personally. It looks dorky but comes in so handy when working in dark locations!

    That would be a good way to keep people from talking to you.

    Every time you look at them, you blind them.

    I like it.

    #24 11 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Are you saying the pinball machines will be in these 8 surrounding cities ?

    Probably in 3 surrounding cities. We can replace one Crane Game with each Pin. A super Crane makes room for 2 pins, but then we need to steal an additional license from another game in the same city.

    #25 11 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    60 Bucks a week for a game, I never understood how this is very profitable. Even at 100 dollars a week per game on location, does the location get any of that profit?

    Experienced bar owners want 1/2 the take.

    Inexperienced owners will often accept 25%, so it just depends.

    =
    In the good ol days, a pin paid itself off in less than 4 months.

    How long do you think it would take to pay off a new $5k Stern???

    #26 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    LTG said:

    60 Bucks a week for a game, I never understood how this is very profitable. Even at 100 dollars a week per game on location, does the location get any of that profit?

    I quoted jeffgoldstein2's post, LTG didn't say that.

    LTG

    #27 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Experienced bar owners want 1/2 the take.
    Inexperienced owners will often accept 25%, so it just depends.
    =
    In the good ol days, a pin paid itself off in less than 4 months.
    How long do you think it would take to pay off a new $5k Stern???

    Considering every place I go wants $1 a play for a new stern...it probably takes a while....

    #28 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    How long do you think it would take to pay off a new $5k Stern???

    Well if you are lucky. And can sell a used routed Stern pin. ( note - the HUO Transformer LE's for sale around $4800 that aren't moving ).

    I'd say at the three year mark you might break even. not counting your time, labor, parts, etc.

    LTG

    #29 11 years ago

    Doing some probably unrealistic math:

    $60/week is about $250/month. $5000 into $250 = 20 months.

    That's not taking into account that 1) you have a machine that has some value after 20 months, and 2) any repair costs needed in that time. But 20 months is a lot more than 4 months, which is doubtless why pins on location are rare.

    #30 11 years ago

    Your math is good.

    #31 11 years ago
    Quoted from Finrod:

    $60/week is about $250/month. $5000 into $250 = 20 months.

    Yup, now times that by 2 because you have to split with the bar 50/50. In my situation anyways.

    Nice hobby, but wouldn't quit my day job!

    #32 11 years ago
    Quoted from Finrod:

    Doing some probably unrealistic math:

    $60/week is about $250/month. $5000 into $250 = 20 months.

    That's not taking into account that 1) you have a machine that has some value after 20 months, and 2) any repair costs needed in that time. But 20 months is a lot more than 4 months, which is doubtless why pins on location are rare.

    After the first month or two your $60 will drop off, considerably.

    LTG

    #33 11 years ago

    I hope your experiment turns out well. I really do.

    #34 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    MM is too much money to put out, as is TRON LE and Cirqus Voltaire.

    Brixie's in the Chicago suburbs has an MM, Tron LE, Cactus Canyon, & an Indiana Jones out. Meticulously maintained and probably pull in some good coin at premium prices.

    #35 11 years ago

    A friend and I have thought about this but we were going to try and hit the older crowd at local pubs thinking they would be kinder to the machines. Thought we would give away a free pitcher of beer for the high score of the week.

    #36 11 years ago
    Quoted from jahbarron:

    Brixie's in the Chicago suburbs has an MM, TRON LE, Cactus Canyon, & an Indiana Jones out. Meticulously maintained and probably pull in some good coin at premium prices.

    Yes, in Ann Arbor they have a Tron LE and outside of Columbus I saw a MM, but I'm not putting MY $$$$ games out to get carved up by the kids. My MM is the real thing, no decals on the sides.

    At $60 a week, how long would it take to pay off a $15k MM or a $9k Tron LE?

    #37 11 years ago
    Quoted from slimmer:

    A friend and I have thought about this but we were going to try and hit the older crowd at local pubs thinking they would be kinder to the machines.

    No matter the crowd, unless the game is right in front of the counter, someone always carves their initials, jimmies up the coin door, peels the decals or does something to F up a game. When you buy a game and it has a Ghetto Pan installed, you know that operator did not install it on a whim.

    Quoted from slimmer:

    Thought we would give away a free pitcher of beer for the high score of the week.

    Make sure that is legal in ON, as it would be very illegal in most states in the totalitarian USA.

    #38 11 years ago

    What is a Ghetto pan?

    #39 11 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    What is a Ghetto pan?

    It is a metal plate that is bolted across the bottom of a pin to keep kids from prying the bottom of the cabinet open to take the coin box.

    #40 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    No matter the crowd, unless the game is right in front of the counter, someone always carves their initials, jimmies up the coin door, peels the decals or does something to F up a game.

    I've been lucky so far I guess. 18 months, and no carving, prying, peeling or anything at my location (sports bar).

    #41 11 years ago

    I hope this works out great. We need more places around that provide pinball machines and a safe place to have sex with girls. Really my two favorite hobbys wrapped up into one cool place...who could ask for more?

    #42 11 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    I've been lucky so far I guess. 18 months, and no carving, prying, peeling or anything at my location (sports bar).

    It's like running the same stop sign on your way to work for years. Seems like there is never a cop around, until there is one.

    #43 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    It's like running the same stop sign on your way to work for years. Seems like there is never a cop around, until there is one.

    Well, hopefully the cameras that are installed in the place deter any criminal activity (place was a casino prior to being a bar. lots of 'eyes in the sky').

    That said, I understand, and I hope anyone else who considers doing this, is that there is a risk of damage to the machines.

    Heck, I had my MM there for a couple months. Did not really bother me.

    #44 11 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    Well, hopefully the cameras that are installed in the place deter any criminal activity

    Cool. You'll have video of it happening. ( which won't deter anything and is pretty much useless as far as call police or pressing charges )

    LTG

    #45 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You think you still remember what to do with 'em?
    Girls are into crazy stuff nowadays...

    Dinner, drinks, and doggy style. Timeless trifecta.

    #46 11 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    which won't deter anything and is pretty much useless as far as call police or pressing charges

    So, video evidence of a crime by a perp has no weight? At all?

    Why do casino's have cameras? Banks? And around here, a lot of bars, buses, businesses, etc. Just because? Enlighten us.

    Oh, and it also makes insurance cheaper. I wonder why it would make the insurance cheaper if it has no effect on anything?

    #47 11 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    LTG said:

    which won't deter anything and is pretty much useless as far as call police or pressing charges

    So, video evidence of a crime by a perp has no weight? At all?

    Why do casino's have cameras? Banks? And around here, a lot of bars, buses, businesses, etc. Just because? Enlighten us.

    Oh, and it also makes insurance cheaper. I wonder why it would make the insurance cheaper if it has no effect on anything?

    The places you mention have lots of money. Or people to protect.

    Coin op doesn't.

    Take your video of someone vandalizing a pin or breaking into one to a police station and see what they say.

    LTG

    #48 11 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    The places you mention have lots of money. Or people to protect.

    Coin op doesn't.

    Take your video of someone vandalizing a pin or breaking into one to a police station and see what they say.

    LTG []

    This dont really make sense to me. If you setup a camera outside your house and catch someone attacking your car and you have it on tape, you can press charges against that person. Why would it be any different?

    #49 11 years ago

    You did not answer the question as to why it reduces my insurance rate.

    I would take the video in. But it has not happened. No thief wants to steal $4 in quarters, in a busy establishment, with a couple of very large humans bouncing. They would be better off skimming from an ATM, or busting a cars window, or stealing a bike.

    #50 11 years ago
    Quoted from Jdawg4422:

    This dont really make sense to me. If you setup a camera outside your house and catch someone attacking your car and you have it on tape, you can press charges against that person. Why would it be any different?

    Not that easy. You have to find the person, identify them, then hope the police or court system cares.

    I believe you'll find out it isn't as easy as you think.

    LTG

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