(Topic ID: 168164)

Pure pinball love (Bally is taking over)


By DEN

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 294 posts
  • 85 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Whysnow
  • Topic is favorited by 20 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 142 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

20170424_161823 (resized).jpg
20170423_204507 (resized).jpg
853f1 (resized).jpg
IMG_20170401_174511578 (resized).jpg
IMG_9997 (resized).JPG
IMG_9996 (resized).JPG
IMG_9995 (resized).JPG
IMG_9994 (resized).JPG
IMG_9993 (resized).JPG
IMG_9992 (resized).JPG
IMG_9991 (resized).JPG
IMG_9990 (resized).JPG
IMG_9989 (resized).JPG
IMG_9988 (resized).JPG
IMG_9987 (resized).JPG
IMG_9986 (resized).JPG

There are 294 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 6.
#51 3 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

Great post! I got a taste of Bally's early SS games at the Silverball Museum, a huge local pinball spot. Eight Ball Deluxe immediately became one of my favorite games out of their 200 +/- collection, ranging from the oldest to newest pins. I had enjoyed the game many years ago a kid, but hadn't seen or played one in probably close to 20 years! Even though i can go there and play EBD just about any time, I'm determined to add one to my collection. It's *that* good!
I've made a similar discovery lately, that i find myself more and more drawn to pre-DMD games. There are certain DMD titles i will always enjoy very much and want, but most of them cost more than I'll ever be able to justify spending (or be able to afford!)... Especially when i could get 4-5 Classic Bally titles with the same money in some cases.
Which brings me to a suggestion: if you can find any, check out Classic Stern titles from around the same generation (79-82): Meteor, Galaxy, Flight 2000, Big Game, Nine Ball, Seawitch, Star Gazer, the list goes on. They have a very similar circuit board set, and i think they have a similar solid feel as the Bally's of that era. I have a Seawitch in my collection, and it's gotten more play than my other pins ever since. Fast, solid, easy rules but difficult to master--all the things I also enjoy about the classic Bally games. I would love to add a Flash Gordon, Xenon, Fathom, Medusa, and of course Eight Ball Deluxe if i should get the opportunity. Not saying they're better than Classic Bally's by any means, just thought you might enjoy some of them as well!
As another poster said above, i also believe the lack of options forced designers to focus much more on the playfield design. Everything that can be done is available right in front of you. Shoot for the flashing or lit shots! No directions needed from the display, which keeps you watching and interacting with the game constantly. Not too many stop-and-go moments in a lot of those games, as opposed to a fair amount of DMD games. All that said, I've been surprised to discover how much depth many of these games have without so much as an alphanumeric display. The fact that *most* classic Bally's and Stern's can be gotten for under $2k in player's condition makes them an easy choice going forward with my collection.
Again, i love me plenty of DMD games...but I've really come to enjoy the simplicity and difficulty, and ultimately the *feel* of some of the classic Bally's and Stern's.

Those classic sterns play crazy fast. I'm hoping to find a nice Seawitch at some point.

#52 3 years ago

My first game was Evel Knievel. And I still miss it sometimes. Embryon was here for about 4 years, great game. EBDLE with an IPB playfield is down in the gameroom. And these three bad asses live in my living room right now. Yeah, I still have that Bally fever (that HG has the prototype plastic playfield and is smooth as silk).

image (resized).jpg

#53 3 years ago
Quoted from Luppin:

I never had to chance to see and play such old machines.
I think I understand your tasted for DMD and I am similar.
How do you explain the experience with those Ballys compared to the best (TS, Tron..) DMDs?

Here's one major difference between my early Ballys and my modern DMD games: they're just way lower effort to step up and play. I love Metallica, top 5 Stern game of all time, one of my favorites. But it's a bit of a grind to play it if you're not really in the mood. Gotta keep hitting shots, collecting stuff, building up to these big modes. If you're trying for a good game it's going to take a little while, and if you don't have what it takes you're not going to get much satisfaction out of your play.

With the early Ballys you just start flipping. Your ball isn't going to last long, I keep Flash Gordon on 5 ball and we can finish a 4 player game while someone is still on ball 1 of Metallica. The addiction is more in the "one more game" aspect, than the really long epic journey single game.

Easy to play, hard to master.

I like to keep my collection balanced that way, different games for different moods.

#54 3 years ago

I'm kind of newish to pinball...3 years or so. I'm lucky to have 10+ pins at various locations around me, new and not so new.....but the ones I absolutely have to put more quarters in over and over are the 80s games. I have an embryon and will have a centaur and a elektra one day.

20160816_225139 (resized).jpg

#55 3 years ago
Quoted from dluth:

Is there any way of making the inserts brighter? I tried a few LEDs but they just flickered horribly. I guess cleaning the underside of the inserts would help...but what do you guys do?

This is what I use. Work great. In fact I ordered another 5 sets yesterday.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/classic-ballystern-led-adapter-kit-review

rd

#56 3 years ago

I have had several other early Bally solid state machines, but these are my keepers. I would like to get Embryon back one day.

IMG_2534 (resized).JPG

#57 3 years ago

I have only had one 80's Bally - Hotdoggin and totally miss that game. I get it!

#58 3 years ago

I love these games I just wish they were more available in NZ. There are not that many here and condition can be iffy. I got to play some really nice once in the USA a month ago and they were a blast. It would be great to see remakes on some of these at non insane prices.

#59 3 years ago
Quoted from BallyPinWiz:

I have had several other early Bally solid state machines, but these are my keepers. I would like to get Embryon back one day.

nice to see Eight Ball Champ in your pic and noted a ones of your keepers....hugely underrated! Only 1500 made...I guess people just haven't played it to appreciate it.

#60 3 years ago

I am hoping to receive a restored Skateball in the next week or so. Looks to be a real nice one. DMDs are so..... out!

#61 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

DMDs are so..... out!

Can't we have both?

Dimitri, lobster and cracked crab for everyone.

#62 3 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Can't we have both?

Dimitri, lobster and cracked crab for everyone.

Everybody should have what they want. And I still do have one DMD. What I meant is in my collection which was once DMD heavy is no longer so.

And I will take that Dimitri, lobster and cracked crab, whenever and wherever it's served.

#63 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Here's one major difference between my early Ballys and my modern DMD games: they're just way lower effort to step up and play. I love Metallica, top 5 Stern game of all time, one of my favorites. But it's a bit of a grind to play it if you're not really in the mood. Gotta keep hitting shots, collecting stuff, building up to these big modes. If you're trying for a good game it's going to take a little while, and if you don't have what it takes you're not going to get much satisfaction out of your play.
With the early Ballys you just start flipping. Your ball isn't going to last long, I keep Flash Gordon on 5 ball and we can finish a 4 player game while someone is still on ball 1 of Metallica. The addiction is more in the "one more game" aspect, than the really long epic journey single game.
Easy to play, hard to master.
I like to keep my collection balanced that way, different games for different moods.

1) Yes, I know about the short ball times. Surely it's a totally different experience compared to modern machines with deep rules. But how do those Ballys compare to other modern short ball time games like BSD or TS? I am asking about the gameplay. I know art is different, and definitely gorgeous.

2) Also: a very important aspect for me is music. Almost all my machines have great soundtracks (Space Station, Swords of Fury the best of all time, but also BSD and TS have excellent soundtracks), and for me bad music/sounds is a total killer, especially relative to lastability. What about this for those Ballys? Are those sounds old but somehow fascinating and hypnotizing, or get boring after a while? Maybe you like those sounds because you played those machines during your youth and there is a strong nostalgic effect?

#64 3 years ago

PPS could remake some of these and make a killing if they were priced right, and they couldn't be THAT expensive to build vs a MMr. Who wouldn't pay 4k for a new Fathom?

#65 3 years ago
Quoted from BallyPinWiz:

I have had several other early Bally solid state machines, but these are my keepers. I would like to get Embryon back one day.

Lovely line-up! When the room is full of players, do you have many butt-to-butt bumps?

#66 3 years ago
Quoted from Luppin:

1) Yes, I know about the short ball times. Surely it's a totally different experience compared to modern machines with deep rules. But how do those Ballys compare to other modern short ball time games like BSD or TS? I am asking about the gameplay. I know art is different, and definitely gorgeous.
2) Also: a very important aspect for me is music. Almost all my machines have great soundtracks (Space Station, Swords of Fury the best of all time, but also BSD and TS have excellent soundtracks), and for me bad music/sounds is a total killer, especially relative to lastability. What about this for those Ballys? Are those sounds old but somehow fascinating and hypnotizing, or get boring after a while? Maybe you like those sounds because you played those machines during your youth and there is a strong nostalgic effect?

Excellent questions.

The old Bally games stand up fine to short ball time games like BSD and Iron Man (I own both of those). It is a different experience. There is a simplicity to the games that I find appealing. You want a quick 50k points on MH? Just knock down the 8 drop targets of death. Everything is score based, and the simple objective is to keep going as you hit the valuable spots. Lighting a spinner and hitting it sounds simple, but it's so rewarding.

As for sounds, again, simple but well done. Ok, I'll admit, Gottlieb chimes are miles better than Bally. But they still get the job done. And the early electronic sounds are not that bad. I've never found them to be annoying. And in fact, the later games like EBD and Embryon had great sounds. They were just part of it all.

Modern, classic, SS, EM, LCD, I love them all. I get to play the one that fits my mood.

#67 3 years ago
Quoted from adii:

PPS could remake some of these and make a killing if they were priced right, and they couldn't be THAT expensive to build vs a MMr. Who wouldn't pay 4k for a new Fathom?

People are paying $5000,6000 and even $7000 for a Fathom, so why would they want to make them for $4000?

rd

#68 3 years ago

These old Bally tables are well built tanks compared to todays Pins. My friend is always fixing something on his $8000 pins. I just replace bulbs & rubber it seems. Never have a problem with it.

#69 3 years ago

After restoring a few Gottlieb EM's, with their made in hell "AS" relays & the "AG" relays with the tough to adjust micro throw contacts, I have really started to appreciate the Bally stuff.

The quality of construction on the mid 1970's to early SS Bally pins is the best.
.. Little details, like lock screws on under playfield T-nuts, big, easy to adjust contacts on relays & score reels (on EM's), & NO stupid 40-pin board interconnects on SS's.

#70 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

People are paying $5000,6000 and even $7000 for a Fathom, so why would they want to make them for $4000?

People were asking $10K, $12K, and more for MM until PPS released MMr for $8K. The same thing would happen for Fathom, Centaur, and a couple other classic Bally titles.

#71 3 years ago

I just like this era of machines best. Short ball times are the usual, but when you have a good one it feels good 'cause you had to earn it. No 2nd chance BS like on new games. The old Ballys were classy. They had a soul, so to speak. Best art ever. Not a fan of the games coming out now. I'll stick w/ the classics. Old School Rules................

#72 3 years ago
Quoted from Luppin:

1) Yes, I know about the short ball times. Surely it's a totally different experience compared to modern machines with deep rules. But how do those Ballys compare to other modern short ball time games like BSD or TS? I am asking about the gameplay. I know art is different, and definitely gorgeous.
2) Also: a very important aspect for me is music. Almost all my machines have great soundtracks (Space Station, Swords of Fury the best of all time, but also BSD and TS have excellent soundtracks), and for me bad music/sounds is a total killer, especially relative to lastability. What about this for those Ballys? Are those sounds old but somehow fascinating and hypnotizing, or get boring after a while? Maybe you like those sounds because you played those machines during your youth and there is a strong nostalgic effect?

It's a completely different experience. You are trying to make shots and keep the ball alive more then anything to build a bonus in most cases instead of playing modes. I find that on week nights I tend to play my early bally games as they are short and fun and I don't have the tiring almost draining feeling that I get from some of the modern games. On weekends I tend to be less worn out and I like to have a few long epic games on deep coded DMD games. Mentally I just am in a lot less serious state playing the early bally games and I think that lends to me having more fun and not getting frustrated. I tend to laugh when fathom drains without me touching the ball but for whatever reason it pisses me off on most DMD games. I think it's because they have so much you are trying to accomplish I just mentally think I needed that ball a lot more.

As far as much goes some fit 1980 perfectly and are not tiring to listen to at all. Others can be really annoying. Embryon and Fathom are great and almost hypnotizing to me. Awwwwe, yesssss!!!!

#73 3 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I tend to laugh when fathom drains without me touching the ball but for whatever reason it pisses me off on most DMD games. I think it's because they have so much you are trying to accomplish I just mentally think I needed that ball a lot more.

I agree...and Fathom does like to throw the ball down the in-lane from plunge on occasion....which is bad.

Don't forget you are often times are rewarded on the classic Ballys for a good shot....with a drain. Not an easy return to the flipper from a ramp shot.

#74 3 years ago

Last night I tilted on Fathom with close to 800,000 in bonus built up Got a little aggressive trying to make a save on that right in line.

#75 3 years ago

The bonus countdowns on these machines is so awesome

#76 3 years ago
Quoted from Luppin:

1) Yes, I know about the short ball times. Surely it's a totally different experience compared to modern machines with deep rules. But how do those Ballys compare to other modern short ball time games like BSD or TS? I am asking about the gameplay. I know art is different, and definitely gorgeous.
2) Also: a very important aspect for me is music. Almost all my machines have great soundtracks (Space Station, Swords of Fury the best of all time, but also BSD and TS have excellent soundtracks), and for me bad music/sounds is a total killer, especially relative to lastability. What about this for those Ballys? Are those sounds old but somehow fascinating and hypnotizing, or get boring after a while? Maybe you like those sounds because you played those machines during your youth and there is a strong nostalgic effect?

1) I don't consider Shadow a short ball time game. It's not an easy game, but you can have pretty decent balls on it. Flash Gordon is the kind of game that punishes you for making the shot you intended to make. The old brutal stuff is just more brutal.

I dunno, DMD games just play different. Shadow for instance has multiballs and modes and Vengeance and all the stuff that makes it a great game. Old Ballys are much simpler, knock down some drop target banks, get the bonus up, shoot the spinner kind of stuff. Simple is kind of the point.

2) I love the old school sounds, and it's not a nostalgia thing. I didn't play pinball as a kid, my arcade time was on video games. But I think that's really a personal preference thing. Nothing makes me happier than lighting the spinners on Flash Gordon and ripping them, I'm addicted to that rising tone.

#77 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Nothing makes me happier than lighting the spinners on Flash Gordon and ripping them, I'm addicted to that rising tone.

It's hitting that darn bottom left drop target that deters from doing that too often....so difficult to hit on mine. Usually when I get the whole bank down...I struggle to get the ball on a flipper to make a good spinner rip....but it is very satisfying when it happens.

#78 3 years ago

Why no love for Bally Star Trek?

#79 3 years ago
Quoted from DEN:

Anyone got pics of other versions of EBD?

To me the only EBD is the first generation. Gotta love those Belmont Avenue or Classic cabinets. If you want something rare then feast eyes on these OEM NOS puppies.

EBD (resized).JPG

#80 3 years ago
Quoted from Pahuffman:

Why no love for Bally Star Trek?

It's a cool looking game. I'm not a fan of the shot layout though. The left side of the playfield has some interesting stuff but there's just not much to do on it compared to the other top bally games from 78-82.

#81 3 years ago

The 1000 point spinner on Elektra sounds great too. The best sounding spinner when lit I think is on Firepower, although a non Bally but same era.

Quoted from Captive_Ball:

It's hitting that darn bottom left drop target that deters from doing that too often....so difficult to hit on mine. Usually when I get the whole bank down...I struggle to get the ball on a flipper to make a good spinner rip....but it is very satisfying when it happens.

#82 3 years ago

I got the Bally fever. Currently have Flash Gordon, Mystic, Centaur, Skateball, and Embryon.

I do miss having some more variety in my collection, but I don't want to let the Bally's go.

But, I'm currently out of room

#83 3 years ago

I'm starting to feel like I might be coming down with something...

Have a trade pending for a Flash Gordon, which will be my first Bally Fever game.

I have a Black Knight and agree that the simpler games are more approachable when you're not up for a longer experience. There is something very pleasurable in making a few good shots on these games that is energizing, even if your actual game score is not great.

And I love alot of the electronic algorithmic sounds from this era which are constantly changing based on score, play time, etc. Reminds of classic 70's sci-fi movies.

#84 3 years ago

I am always on the lookout for a Viking. Hard to come by, but what a fantastic game.

#85 3 years ago

To much like Mata Hari for me.

Quoted from jar155:

I am always on the lookout for a Viking. Hard to come by, but what a fantastic game.

#86 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

I am always on the lookout for a Viking. Hard to come by, but what a fantastic game.

Move along there Jeff...nothing to see here. Stay away from the classic Ballys

#87 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

1) I don't consider Shadow a short ball time game. It's not an easy game, but you can have pretty decent balls on it. Flash Gordon is the kind of game that punishes you for making the shot you intended to make. The old brutal stuff is just more brutal.
I dunno, DMD games just play different. Shadow for instance has multiballs and modes and Vengeance and all the stuff that makes it a great game. Old Ballys are much simpler, knock down some drop target banks, get the bonus up, shoot the spinner kind of stuff. Simple is kind of the point.
2) I love the old school sounds, and it's not a nostalgia thing. I didn't play pinball as a kid, my arcade time was on video games. But I think that's really a personal preference thing. Nothing makes me happier than lighting the spinners on Flash Gordon and ripping them, I'm addicted to that rising tone.

Yes, Shadow not too short ball time. Just mentioned as still opposite to super deep extra long ball time new machines where the ball never drains.

So, it looks like I have to check some of those machines out. Interesting descriptions, they made me curious.

#88 3 years ago

Walken_fever_Bally (resized).jpg

#89 3 years ago

We still need some correct looking apron decals. I have some that aren't right, but have put off using them in hopes of something better.

#90 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

People are paying $5000,6000 and even $7000 for a Fathom, so why would they want to make them for $4000?
rd

People were paying up to 12k for MM and they made it for $8,000. You never know.

#91 3 years ago
Quoted from adii:

People were paying up to 12k for MM and they made it for $8,000. You never know.

Some people paid way more than $12k for MM.

Still, don't hold your breath for a $4000 Fathom any time soon.

Won't happen.

rd

#92 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Some people paid way more than $12k for MM.
Still, don't hold your breath for a $4000 Fathom any time soon.
Won't happen.
rd

Agreed...likely will not happen when WNBJM is around $6K

#93 3 years ago

Part of my upstairs gameroom collection from a few years back. Brought these downstairs now and brought 5 more up stairs. Pictures soon.

P1010670red (resized).JPG

#94 3 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

Agreed...likely will not happen when WNBJM is around $6K

$4k - $6k is a lot different than $8k - $10k when manufactures are considering all costs of building and selling a pinball machine.

If you think about it, the play field, backless, and boards are ALL reproduced already.

So you could build one from scratch or, contract the parts listed below as a manufacturer. You would just need to come up with the top and bottom metal play field parts+wiring harnesses. You could do this for just about any classic Bally machine, for which PF's+Plastic sets have already been made:
These prices are not exact and do not include tax...
PF $800
BG $200
Plastic set (if re-issued) $150
cabinet stencils $150
manufactured or "Donor" cabinet+tranformer $200
rectifier PCB $85
Alltek MPU $200
new Display set $249
S+T sound $150
paint: $100

$2284 so far... -not counting the stuff that's missing or tax(if you're building it yourself)- most of the missing parts could be made on the cheap in China...

You -might- be under 3K in manufacturing/assembly costs per machine (if you paid paid Stern to assemble the games or got your employees to work for free!)...

Not sure on the current license holder (Planetary?) and the other legalities regarding the industrial electrical approval costs and such. What about insurance to protect you against lawsuits and such?

Also, they are going to sell them for AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WILL PAY. Same as every single thing ever made in the history of the world.

The market may be there for a FEW sales but I just don't see it. Once 5 or 6 Bally's sell for over $8K... it starts to become realistic. But how many "classic" Bally machines would actually sell at that price? 40-60 for each title? Not likely... 500-1000? VERY doubtful...

#95 3 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

$4k - $6k is a lot different than $8k - $10k when manufactures are considering all costs of building and selling a pinball machine.

Also, they are going to sell them for AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WILL PAY. Same as every single thing ever made in the history of the world.
The market may be there for a FEW sales but I just don't see it. Once 5 or 6 Bally's sell for over $8K... it starts to become realistic. But how many "classic" Bally machines would actually sell at that price? 40-60 for each title? Not likely... 500-1000? VERY doubtful...

In the end I think they could sell as many or more than WNBJM if the cost is lower, but agree it wouldn't be a big run like the WPC games for sure. I would raise my hand for a new Fathom in the $4K range. Just don't see enough meat left on the bone for the games to be remade close to where I'd feel comfortable. Like you laid out. Not saying the price tag on these throw back machines isn't justified through the cost of parts and manufacturing...just saying the market would not support the endeavor at the profitable level....would love to be proven wrong though

#96 3 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

$4k - $6k is a lot different than $8k - $10k when manufactures are considering all costs of building and selling a pinball machine.
If you think about it, the play field, backless, and boards are ALL reproduced already.
So you could build one from scratch or, contract the parts listed below as a manufacturer. You would just need to come up with the top and bottom metal play field parts+wiring harnesses. You could do this for just about any classic Bally machine, for which PF's+Plastic sets have already been made:
These prices are not exact and do not include tax...
PF $800
BG $200
Plastic set (if re-issued) $150
cabinet stencils $150
manufactured or "Donor" cabinet+tranformer $200
rectifier PCB $85
Alltek MPU $200
new Display set $249
S+T sound $150
paint: $100
$2284 so far... -not counting the stuff that's missing or tax(if you're building it yourself)- most of the missing parts could be made on the cheap in China...
You -might- be under 3K in manufacturing/assembly costs per machine (if you paid paid Stern to assemble the games or got your employees to work for free!)...
Not sure on the current license holder (Planetary?) and the other legalities regarding the industrial electrical approval costs and such. What about insurance to protect you against lawsuits and such?
Also, they are going to sell them for AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WILL PAY. Same as every single thing ever made in the history of the world.
The market may be there for a FEW sales but I just don't see it. Once 5 or 6 Bally's sell for over $8K... it starts to become realistic. But how many "classic" Bally machines would actually sell at that price? 40-60 for each title? Not likely... 500-1000? VERY doubtful...

Here is one of the threads I have been following:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fathom-if-you-cant-find-one-build-one

#97 3 years ago

Skateball was the first machine that really hooked me back in 1985. Finally got one, though not as nice as the others posted here. Put a playfield protector on it, so it's smooth as glass now. No more wonky balls from hitting the potholes. Waiting for my CPR playfield. Need more classic Ballys now!!! Cheers!

20160904_155442 (resized).jpg

20160830_211256 (resized).jpg

#98 3 years ago

I can't wait to get my Skateball. That thing's beautiful.

#99 3 years ago

But for now, all I have is a few pictures.

3 (resized).jpg

#100 3 years ago

Wow! That is beautiful.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 9.00
Electronics
Yorktown Parts and Equip
$ 59.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Sales
There are 294 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 6.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside