(Topic ID: 210223)

Pulling My Hair out!!! Video to issue


By pinballrebel

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 39 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by vireland
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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kiss_sol1 (resized).jpg

#1 1 year ago

I give up what is causing this? My KISS LE has developed this goofy Kick out issue.

https://www.facebook.com/PinballRebel/videos/10156266303251133/

Ken

#2 1 year ago

Is the tip of the kickout shaft still there, maybe it broke off?

Rob

#3 1 year ago

Yes it appears to be to me.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballrebel:

Yes it appears to be to me.

The person who helps me solve this by providing a correct answer will win a beverage of their choice at TPF or $10 via paypal. Im 4-5 hours into this already and no closer to a solution.

#5 1 year ago

What did you do for troubleshooting/testing already?

visually inspect the coil/mech, test transistor associated with this coil, voltages, etc

#6 1 year ago

It seems like your plunger may be too short. Had a similar issue on tspp Otto kick out. Put something that is about 1/4” thick behind the plunger and see if that helps get it out. A beer bottle cap, a piece 1/4” thick acrylic or wood taped to the back of the plunger or where the rubber stop is would work too.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from Boat:

What did you do for troubleshooting/testing already?
visually inspect the coil/mech, test transistor associated with this coil, voltages, etc

Checked voltage. Inspected mech. It fires hard.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

It seems like your plunger may be too short. Had a similar issue on tspp Otto kick out. Put something that is about 1/4” thick behind the plunger and see if that helps get it out. A beer bottle cap, a piece 1/4” thick acrylic or wood taped to the back of the plunger or where the rubber stop is would work too.

Im not above trying that but how does changing the travel on that side of the plunger make it travel more on the other side? It would still bottom out when it hits the stop?

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballrebel:

Im not above trying that but how does changing the travel on that side of the plunger make it travel more on the other side? It would still bottom out when it hits the stop?

I don’t know, but it was common on tspp. Took me 10 years to figure it out. Stern couldn’t help, had me change the coil, no change. Put the bottle cap on the end at the suggestion of another pinsider and it immediately fixed it. Since the cap is metal, I replaced it with a piece if acrylic, never happened again. Can’t hurt to try it even if it sounds odd.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballrebel:

Checked voltage. Inspected mech. It fires hard.

Can you re-shoot the video without the ball in the saucer, and with slo-mo on?

Also, have you triggered it with the playfield lifted to see how the coil action is under the PF?

#11 1 year ago

My guess is the switch that triggers the out kicker might need adjusted. You want it so that the kicker doesn’t trigger until the ball is fully in the hole. It’s definitely a mechanical issue not an electrical issue IMO.

#13 1 year ago

It's bouncing off something above/beside

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

My guess is the switch that triggers the out kicker might need adjusted. You want it so that the kicker doesn’t trigger until the ball is fully in the hole. It’s definitely a mechanical issue not an electrical issue IMO.

The ball is fully in the hole. It won't even clear in test. Good guess though.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballrebel:

The ball is fully in the hole. It won't even clear in test. Good guess though.

What does the coil action look like from under the playfield when you trigger the coil?

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

What does the coil action look like from under the playfield when you trigger the coil?

Moves just fine...no bind....

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Read post 14 of this thread, post 18 has pics of the fix.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tspp-issue

Tried adding the bottle cap fix...didnt fix the issue the problem remains.

#18 1 year ago

It appears to me the ball hits the post/rubber just below the kickout and bounces back into the hole. This is a problem because there is no way to adjust the angle of the kicker.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballrebel:

Moves just fine...no bind....

And the plastic tip is intact as in this picture off mine?

kiss_sol1 (resized).jpg

#20 1 year ago

Also, what's your Star Eject Power (adjustment#7 under KISS feature adjustments) set to?

#21 1 year ago

So did you solve this?

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

So did you solve this?

No I have not. I had time to work on it today. Stern suggested I relocate the entire assemble so the plunger strikes the ball at a different angle. I did that. Now the ball no longer seems to strike the post and rubber directly below the saucer but it still will not eject. The issue remains. I have tried every power setting as well. Here is a link to the issue show in slow motion.

https://www.facebook.com/PinballRebel/videos/10156285623261133/

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballrebel:

No I have not. I had time to work on it today. Stern suggested I relocate the entire assemble so the plunger strikes the ball at a different angle. I did that. Now the ball no longer seems to strike the post and rubber directly below the saucer but it still will not eject. The issue remains. I have tried every power setting as well. Here is a link to the issue show in slow motion.
https://www.facebook.com/PinballRebel/videos/10156285623261133/

What's your Star Eject power set to? It looks like it's ejecting way too hard, hitting the plastic "ceiling" and settling back.

#24 1 year ago

Just a guess as I can’t really see the set up...is it possible ball is magnetized or just slightly but enough to ‘stick’ a bit to any metal in the kick out hole? Hope you figure it out!

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

Just a guess as I can’t really see the set up...is it possible ball is magnetized or just slightly but enough to ‘stick’ a bit to any metal in the kick out hole? Hope you figure it out!

It's resting against a plastic tip in the saucer, and there's not enough metal in the switch to hold the ball back even if it were magnetized. It looks pretty clearly like it's hitting the plastic over the area and bouncing back into the saucer on that slow-mo video.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

It's resting against a plastic tip in the saucer, and there's not enough metal in the switch to hold the ball back even if it were magnetized. It looks pretty clearly like it's hitting the plastic over the area and bouncing back into the saucer on that slow-mo video.

But why would it start doing that? Makes no sense? I even relocated the assembly and I have the same issue. It isnt like the plastic deck could move down.

Ken

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballrebel:

But why would it start doing that? Makes no sense? I even relocated the assembly and I have the same issue. It isnt like the plastic deck could move down.
Ken

Before we get to Philosophy, start with the answer to, "WHAT IS YOUR STAR EJECT POWER SETTING?"

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Before we get to Philosophy, start with the answer to, "WHAT IS YOUR STAR EJECT POWER SETTING?"

I have tried it on the lowest setting, and the factory, and every where in between. I thought maybe the lowest setting might make it just dribble out but nope

Pinball Philosophy....I actually like that idea.... I flip therefore I drain

Ken

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballrebel:

I have tried it on the lowest setting, and the factory, and every where in between. I thought maybe the lowest setting might make it just dribble out but nope
Pinball Philosophy....I actually like that idea.... I flip therefore I drain
Ken

Fourth time. What is your Star Eject power setting (adjustment#7 under KISS feature adjustments)?

And secondarily, what was the Star Eject power when you took that video?

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Fourth time. What is your Star Eject power setting?
And secondarily, what was the Star Eject power when you took that video?

I have it set back to factory at the moment. The default. I forget what the number is.

I cant recall what it was on when I shot the video. I think half way between the lowest and factory though.

Ken

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballrebel:

I have it set back to factory at the moment. The default. I forget what the number is.
I cant recall what it was on when I shot the video. I think half way between the lowest and factory though.
Ken

Factory is 32, the maximum.

What do you have the coil strength set to? Soft or Normal? Adjustment 43 on standard adjustments.

#32 1 year ago

Angle is off, (on bottom of playfield) put a couple of washers between VUK metal plate and wood playfield and then put screws back in holes which hold up the veriltical up kicker.

I have done this on other games, not sure about this one.

#33 1 year ago

Is the plunger hitting the playfield wood a little? I had to adjust mine on Avengers because of a similar problem. I used washers between the mech and the wood to change the angle, and cannot remember if I bent anything.

#34 1 year ago

Another thought I had is maybe you should measure the voltage the saucer kickout coil is getting when energized and compare it to a couple other 26-1200 coils in the system when they're energized (pop bumpers, either sling, etc) and see if it's getting the same voltage or if the voltage increased due to some failure on the node board...

#35 1 year ago

Also, make sure the wires have good solder connections.

Also, with the power off, move the plunger back and forth by hand to see if it is binding or hitting anything.

#36 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

It's resting against a plastic tip in the saucer, and there's not enough metal in the switch to hold the ball back even if it were magnetized. It looks pretty clearly like it's hitting the plastic over the area and bouncing back into the saucer on that slow-mo video.

Thank you vireland. Yes, rules out my thought.

#37 1 year ago

Did this get fixed?

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Did this get fixed?

Solution from the Stern Enthusiast facebook page.

Prize Winner Tony Singer. He suggester putting a rubber spacer under the center ramp the lift it off the backboard. I did this and added spacers under the starchild clear plastic as well. I also moved the location of the assembly, and lowered the power on the coil.

The only thing I can figure is the ball hitting that plastic over and over again from the stage drop slowly warps it downward (the starchild clear plastic so eventually the ball starts hitting it). I put spacers under the clear plastic on the sided of the saucer and put a rubber under the ramp. That plus lowering the coil setting will let the ball eject but just barely. I have a feeling as more games get put on it this is going to be an issue again. Someone may need to come up with a better solution that spans than plastic that keeps it from flexing.

Irritating to say the least. I cant believe more LE and premium owners have not saw this issue?

Ken

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballrebel:

Solution from the Stern Enthusiast facebook page.
Prize Winner Tony Singer. He suggester putting a rubber spacer under the center ramp the lift it off the backboard. I did this and added spacers under the starchild clear plastic as well. I also moved the location of the assembly, and lowered the power on the coil.
The only thing I can figure is the ball hitting that plastic over and over again from the stage drop slowly warps it downward (the starchild clear plastic so eventually the ball starts hitting it). I put spacers under the clear plastic on the sided of the saucer and put a rubber under the ramp. That plus lowering the coil setting will let the ball eject but just barely. I have a feeling as more games get put on it this is going to be an issue again. Someone may need to come up with a better solution that spans than plastic that keeps it from flexing.
Irritating to say the least. I cant believe more LE and premium owners have not saw this issue?
Ken

I'd put washers between the coil bracket and the playfield to move the coil away from the playfield a bit so the ball gets less of a hit before I raised ramps and plastics. Uneven raising on the plastic runs the risk of breaking it.

You were able to get the ball to work, but did you check the power to that coil when energized? If it's too much, that's the real problem, you just addressed a symptom. It would also explain why only you seem to have experienced this so far.

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