(Topic ID: 314390)

Puck bowler not working in dual flash

By PinDeLaPin

1 year ago


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    #1 1 year ago

    So after going through a United Laguna machine from top to bottom for a friend i'm having 1 final problem. The game will play through all 10 frames plus any bonus frames you get while in the 10th frame as it should. The problem is that frame reel is not keeping up with the frame stepper. Sometimes it will not advance past the 6th frame other times it is consistently not advancing past the 8th frame and yet sometimes it will actually advance like it is supposed too but that is far and few between. I have had lots of advice from Mopar to get the machine to this current point. I've pulled the frame stepper off and gone through it multiple times but have pretty much eliminated that because the game knows what frame it is in. Which leads me to wondering if there is some kind of issue in the frame reel itself. Pretty much at a loss with this and am really hopeful someone can maybe see something I am missing.

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    #2 1 year ago

    Does the Frame step unit drive the Frame score reel, or are they both driven by some other circuit? I'd guess that both are driven by a circuit involving the Coin Unit and Player Up unit that fires when the last player has bowled. If that's the case the Frame score reel is unlikely to be driven by the Frame step unit.

    Things you could try to narrow down the problem:
    - Put a bulb tester on the Frame score reel to see if it always advances when it gets a pulse.
    - Jumper the Frame score reel to some other score reel to see if it ever fails to advance when the other score reel advances.
    - If it seems to reliably advance, look at the circuit that drives the Frame step unit and Frame score reel two to see if there are any differences. Anything in common between the two is likely working fine since the Frame step unit works. Suspects would be things unique to the Frame score reel circuit.

    /Mark

    #3 1 year ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    Does the Frame step unit drive the Frame score reel, or are they both driven by some other circuit? I'd guess that both are driven by a circuit involving the Coin Unit and Player Up unit that fires when the last player has bowled. If that's the case the Frame score reel is unlikely to be driven by the Frame step unit.
    Things you could try to narrow down the problem:
    - Put a bulb tester on the Frame score reel to see if it always advances when it gets a pulse.
    - Jumper the Frame score reel to some other score reel to see if it ever fails to advance when the other score reel advances.
    - If it seems to reliably advance, look at the circuit that drives the Frame step unit and Frame score reel two to see if there are any differences. Anything in common between the two is likely working fine since the Frame step unit works. Suspects would be things unique to the Frame score reel circuit.
    /Mark

    Not sure. I was under the assumption that the frame stepper drove the frame reel as it steps up the switch makes contact sending that signal to the frame reel which causes it to engage. If I start a game and manually engage the frame stepper all the way through 10 frames the frame reel works as it should.

    #4 1 year ago

    Well after pulling the frame stepper back out and going over it I realized 1 leg of the wiper arm wasn't making very good contact with the rivet board. I bent it back down to increase the tension and hallelujah it works. Now that problem is eliminated and now I have to figure out why the flash motor isn't working consistently in a Dual Flash game. It is very inconsistent where as sometimes after the 1st shot the motor re-engages as it should but then other times it won't re-engage. Not sure how to track down this problem. I have taken it apart and cleaned it thoroughly so any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

    #5 1 year ago

    Can you post that section of the schematic? Seems like it's more likely an issue in the circuit driving the flash motor rather than in the flash motor itself.

    #6 1 year ago
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    #7 1 year ago

    If the first shot works reliably I'd look at the switches in the red box which are used only by the second shot:
    Lady Luck bowler flash motor (resized).jpgLady Luck bowler flash motor (resized).jpg

    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from MarkG:

    If the first shot works reliably I'd look at the switches in the red box which are used only by the second shot:
    [quoted image]

    Took a look at those switches gave them a light file and adjusted them just a bit with no change. Still getting no consistency on when the dual flash will work.

    #9 1 year ago

    Next I would jumper out the game selector unit disc switch D wires, and check if problem goes away.

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballdaveh:

    Next I would jumper out the game selector unit disc switch D wires, and check if problem goes away.

    So i'm not worth a damn on reading schematics so i'm not exactly sure which 2 wires need to be jumpered other than one is a blu-y

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    #11 1 year ago

    The 2 wires are white-orange and blue-white. If you have the manual it might help confirm the wire locations.

    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballdaveh:

    The 2 wires are white-orange and blue-white. If you have the manual it might help confirm the wire locations.

    Found them both. So start a game with a jumper wire attached to both of them and see if that fixes the problem?

    #13 1 year ago

    Yes that’s correct.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballdaveh:

    Yes that’s correct.

    Well all it did was blow a fuse when I tried this

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    #15 1 year ago

    I did not have any more 15 amp fuses to mess with this anymore last night so no more progress was made. I plan on swing by the store in grabbing some more on the way home from work today will attempt messing with this some more. Any other thoughts on why this flash motor is working just fine and flash mode but not dual flash?

    #16 1 year ago

    The jumper should not have blown the fuse. Incorrect wires got jumped causing this.
    The 2 wires in question can be found on the switches on 1st pos score motor and 2nd ball A relay. Compare colors to confirm which is correct.
    With machine unplugged, a continuity test with 1 test lead connected to the switch connection, the other test lead can be used to find correct wire on the game selector unit disc.

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballdaveh:

    The jumper should not have blown the fuse. Incorrect wires got jumped causing this.
    The 2 wires in question can be found on the switches on 1st pos score motor and 2nd ball A relay. Compare colors to confirm which is correct.
    With machine unplugged, a continuity test with 1 test lead connected to the switch connection, the other test lead can be used to find correct wire on the game selector unit disc.

    I'll try this again when I get home this afternoon. I guess there is a chance that the wire made contact with two switches

    #18 1 year ago

    I changed out the fuse but now I have bigger problems. Whatever happened yesterday blew more than a fuse. Now a lot of my GI lights are out incuding the flash lights across the playfield.

    #19 1 year ago

    So turns out I replaced the fuse that blew with a brand-spanking-new fuse after going over a bunch of things and still not finding the problem I tested the fuse and it was bad. Testing another fuse before I put it in it also was bad I finally got a good one put back in the machine and just like that I had the lights restored. However I am still back to my problem of the dual flash not working. If I roll one puck the lights stop and should go back on after activating the rollover switches but they do not.

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