(Topic ID: 199621)

PSA: Come on people... Down with Napatha, up with Novus 2!

By Otaku

6 years ago


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    There are 138 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Are people using Novus THAT often on their games?! That is insane. It will take a while, but eventually you're going to start losing paint, even on a DiamondPlate. Bring out the repro PFs I guess.

    I highly doubt it - personally I do a deep clean when I buy a game, then wax with pure caruba, and occasionally wipe down with a cloth maybe bit more wax. So I touch the novus once. But just saying, if you’re regularity scrubbing with novus that’s no good but if you’re ‘cleaning’ with it every once in a while, there’s not a lot of serious rubbing action going on. I’d love to see someone run an experiment with it on an old wall hanger pf that’s not restore material. Let’s put this to bed and see how many sessions with novus it takes to go thru a diamond plate

    #102 6 years ago
    Quoted from Mbecker:

    I highly doubt it - personally I do a deep clean when I buy a game, then wax with pure caruba, and occasionally wipe down with a cloth maybe bit more wax. So I touch the novus once. But just saying, if you’re regularity scrubbing with novus that’s no good but if you’re ‘cleaning’ with it every once in a while, there’s not a lot of serious rubbing action going on. I’d love to see someone run an experiment with it on an old wall hanger pf that’s not restore material. Let’s put this to bed and see how many sessions with novus it takes to go thru a diamond plate

    I felt like you meant that you were scrubbing with novus all the time. My apologies. Your approach sounds like what I would consider/have done as well. Always depends on machine (and yes, the mini shop vac has been used quite a bit too).

    I just can't get over these ideas that Naphtha is a "cleaning" product.

    How many novus licks it takes on a junk PF would be interesting, though I bet it would be rather hard to keep scientific:
    How used PF is to begin with, every situation can be different, how constantly wet/dry the N2 is, the amount of pressure applied and how and at what constant speed (for heat/galling reasons), etc....

    But just generically; someone saying "hey, I buffed/hand rubbed constantly wet N2 for 5 hours pressing hard before burning thru this factory clear" or "took paint off in 10 minutes of with hard scrubbing" would be interesting for hell of it.

    #103 6 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    Novus 2 "cleans" plastic by finely scratching the crap out of it smoothing out all the small scratches in the process. If that plastic was a layer covering the playfield, you wouldn't want it scratched away.

    As does EVERY type of polish - that's how they work. Knocking down edges - not removing material like backhoes.

    Compounds = aggressive cut
    Swirl Removers = medium cut
    Polishes = fine cut
    Glaze = filler
    Waxes = Protective top coat

    #104 6 years ago
    Quoted from pacmanretro:

    I felt like you meant that you were scrubbing with novus all the time. My apologies.

    No apologies needed— my post probably read that way, I was generalizing a bit for the people that might be cleaning their Pfs a bit more than myself

    So who’s gonna do this novus test lol — agreed it can’t be overly scientific but it would be interesting. I have an extra pf in the garage, maybe I’ll try it out and see what happens.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    As does EVERY type of polish - that's how they work. Knocking down edges - not removing material like backhoes.
    Compounds = aggressive cut
    Swirl Removers = medium cut
    Polishes = fine cut
    Glaze = filler
    Waxes = Protective top coat

    Thank you! Most informative post in the subject I’ve seen. Didn’t snow that those could be translated across.. I have quite a few products and not all of them are clear as to what their cut is or intended use. Their should be a standardization scale for cutting and polishing compounds created and printed on products intended for such applications.

    #105 6 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    As does EVERY type of polish - that's how they work. Knocking down edges - not removing material like backhoes.
    Compounds = aggressive cut
    Swirl Removers = medium cut
    Polishes = fine cut
    Glaze = filler
    Waxes = Protective top coat

    Yep. None of that "polish" should be used. Maybe one time on a surprise dirty game that hasn't been up kept but not regularly.

    On clear coated games at least: Simple green should be used to clean. Followed by some non ammonia glass cleaner to remove the simple green. Followed by a carnuba style wax to protect.

    #106 6 years ago

    Can everybody just go here...this is a thread is a slow-burn rehash: Cleaning and Waxing Pinball Machines - Vid's Guide

    So on older playfields, we don't want to be using any water based cleaners.
    We want to avoid things like Simple Green, Windex, Orange Power.... even Novus #1.
    Let's define older as any playfield not having an automotive style clearcoat like Classic Bally, Classic Stern, EM, or Williams Sys3-11.

    First we need to understand that not all pinball playfields were created the same:
    An old Classic Bally, Classic Stern, EM, or Williams Sys3-11 will have an Alcohol Soluble lacquer topcoat.
    A Williams WPC or Modern Stern will have an automotive style clearcoat.
    A modern reproduction playfield (like a Mirco or CPR) will have an automotive style clearcoat.
    A professionally restored playfield will often have an automotive style clearcoat, although that is certainly not guaranteed.
    -
    So a cleaner that might be great for a Modern Stern, could actually damage a SS Bally.
    A cleaner that would be OK for a perfect WPC, might damage a worn or planked WPC.
    One size doe not fit all when it comes to cleaning a playfield.
    -
    We also need to remember that at least 5 different companies made the playfields for Bally/Stern/Williams.
    Each may have had differences in the topcoat; thickness, chemical composition and the method of application all could vary.

    and on and on and on for 23 pages....

    #107 6 years ago

    I start my cleaning with the glass off and a leaf blower!

    24
    #108 6 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    Might as well finish this off. Brings me back to my prior point, it's why I left initially, cranky outspoken bastards.

    Not quite. You posted a PSA and proclaimed that your way is the best way to clean playfields and everybody else was wrong. You can't post a tutorial thread that is full of incorrect things and not expect those things to be pointed out and refuted.

    Unfortunately, you do not yet have the experience to write a tutorial like this (since it was apparent that you are not using the cleaning products correctly), and all you will do is confuse other people who are trying to learn about the proper way to clean a playfield.

    That's part of the reason why people are not accepting of the topic you posted here. Not because they are "cranky" or "grumpy".

    If you want to ask people what cleaning products they use for what things, you are perfectly welcome to ask--nobody is going to call you out for asking a question.

    The problem is that you acted like you were the self-appointed outspoken fountain of all knowledge when it came to cleaning playfields. While I can appreciate you want to share what you have learned with others, people who have the experience simply know that what you are saying is incorrect, and since you said it in a way that looks down upon the generally accepted techniques and procedures coming from more experienced individuals, it tends to rub people the wrong way.

    #109 6 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    ForceFlow, you're a nice dude, but if you think people actually only use Novus for plastics look around and search on your own forum. It's all over the place for cleaning playfields.

    You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything of the kind. That's something else I've noticed you do a few times that has upset people.

    #110 6 years ago
    Quoted from pacmanretro:

    every situation can be different

    Everyone always talks about the difference in the playfields, but how about the differences in the type of dirt as well? I've seen some funky stuff on playfields that are stored in different types of environments such as old warehouses or barns. I seriously damaged an apron trying to clean off a label...I was very careful, too. I tried heat and every possible chemical you can think of - the adhesive was similar to an epoxy but brown. Maybe it was $hit, I dunno - but it harder than diamonds, and even when I finally lost paint on the apron while gradually getting more agressive with cleaners, I had to sand the crap off. Yes, every situation can be different.

    #111 6 years ago

    I suppose this thread is an OK thread to show the play field I am cleaning up. If it is not, I'll ask the Mods to delete it.

    ********************

    I recently picked up a Gottlieb Snow Derby that had been sitting in a vacant house for 14 years. The OP tag on the upper arch suggests this pin spent its first day in a bar and not leave until it wound up the afore mentioned house. It is, and I assume, has always been non-working when it went to live in the house.

    The owner's wife died 14 years ago; He remarried and went to live with his new wife and shut his house down and used it to store crap he most likely bought at auctions. This owner died recently and his family sold everything off.

    My girl friend knew this guy and said he was a heavy smoker. There was no play field glass. The pin was open to all of the elements of a smoker's house and also anything a vacant house could throw at it. So, I bought a pin with 50 years worth of nicotine caked on. Everywhere.

    I got it in the house today and started working to see if I can clean it up.

    I figure this thread is as good of place as any to show the cleanup work in progress.

    This is where I did some light cleaning trying out the cleaner I was planning to use. I was told it cleaned nicotine quite well. I had already tried some on the cab and it did a fairly good job but the cab will need repainted.

    IMG_4784 (resized).JPGIMG_4784 (resized).JPG

    From the upper center, I moved down to the left slingshot. The paint looked to be holding up so I started rubbing a little harder. I used a lot of rags.

    The contrast between the white and light blue at the sling post position shows how discolored the play field is.

    IMG_4804 (resized).JPGIMG_4804 (resized).JPG

    I continued to work with my cleaning fluid. The white stuff behind the right hand flipper base is ring rubber that has melted into the play field. Again, at the right hand sling post the discoloration is very noticeable.

    IMG_4805 (resized).JPGIMG_4805 (resized).JPG

    At this point when I had a large enough area cleaned of nicotine I started working the area with Novus 2.

    IMG_4813 (resized).JPGIMG_4813 (resized).JPG

    Here is what I used to attack the nicotine. Novus 2 would not touch this nicotine. Neither would Naphtha. I did not try alcohol.

    What I used was ZEP Industrial Purple full strength. (it is strong stuff. Use gloves). And even then I had to work the nicotine to get it to lift off.

    IMG_4815 (resized).JPGIMG_4815 (resized).JPG

    It was after I pulled the nicotine with the ZEP that I hit the play field with the Novus 2 with a little different twist. I attached a terrycloth pad to my Black & Decker Sand Storm vibrating sander. I had already tried this sander/polisher with Novus 2 on a practice play flied with good results so I gave it a shot on this play field. So far, I am happy with the results. Once I get the play field stripped I will continue to use the ZEP to attack this nicotine and follow up with Sand Storm/Novus combo. I think I will be able to get at least 95% of the nicotine stains to disappear.

    I also used this ZEP to clean up the apron. It cleaned the apron up real nice, but there was some silver cobwebbing painted on at the factory and it could not stand being attacked by the ZEP and washed away.

    Another play field may not be able to handle the chemicals I am using to attack this nicotine on this play field, but for this play field I feel confident I can continue with ZEP and Novus 2.

    IMG_4802 (resized).JPGIMG_4802 (resized).JPG

    #112 6 years ago

    You mean you didn't use naphtha? Shame on you!

    3 weeks later
    #113 6 years ago

    Anybody heard from Otaku?
    He took a lot of heat for the EM guide thread, stayed away for awhile, then came back with this post and got ran off again.

    #114 6 years ago

    Hasn't been on the board since 10/8.

    #115 6 years ago

    I just heard he is still in contact with members here, its good to hear he is still pursuing his passion. Im rooting for him.

    #116 6 years ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    Anybody heard from Otaku?
    He took a lot of heat for the EM guide thread, stayed away for awhile, then came back with this post and got ran off again.

    Technically he was run off for the suspicious begging for monies shit before the EM guide. And then again for the shit "apology to dasvis" thread.

    #117 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Not quite. You posted a PSA and proclaimed that your way is the best way to clean playfields and everybody else was wrong. You can't post a tutorial thread that is full of incorrect things and not expect those things to be pointed out and refuted.
    Unfortunately, you do not yet have the experience to write a tutorial like this (since it was apparent that you are not using the cleaning products correctly), and all you will do is confuse other people who are trying to learn about the proper way to clean a playfield.
    That's part of the reason why people are not accepting of the topic you posted here. Not because they are "cranky" or "grumpy".
    If you want to ask people what cleaning products they use for what things, you are perfectly welcome to ask--nobody is going to call you out for asking a question.
    The problem is that you acted like you were the self-appointed outspoken fountain of all knowledge when it came to cleaning playfields. While I can appreciate you want to share what you have learned with others, people who have the experience simply know that what you are saying is incorrect, and since you said it in a way that looks down upon the generally accepted techniques and procedures coming from more experienced individuals, it tends to rub people the wrong way.

    This may have had something to do with it.

    2 weeks later
    #118 6 years ago

    NAPTHA is getting confused here with NAPATHA.

    NAPATHA is a highly combustible and dangerous mixture of grape juice phenol-acid compounds derived from Chardonnay, Pino Noir, and Sauvignon Blanc varieties, and discovered in NAPA California. Notable compounds include Trimethyltryptamine, Himethoxy-methylamphetamine and Aeruginascin (THA) hence the pseudonym NAPA-THA. This is one of the world's most hallucinogenic mixtures known to man. A single drop on exposed skin will cause a person to stay awake for 47 days straight, and while under NAPA-THA's influence, will induce uncontrollable howling, "inversia" (seeing the world upside down), extreme euphoria, altitude sensitivity and outbursts of extreme artistic talent. Effects on pinball playfields are unknown.

    NAPTHA is a common household distillate and is safe to use as a mild cleaner on pinball playfields.

    #119 6 years ago
    Quoted from SilverWings:

    NAPTHA is getting confused here with NAPATHA.
    NAPATHA is a highly combustible and dangerous mixture of grape juice phenol-acid compounds derived from Chardonnay, Pino Noir, and Sauvignon Blanc varieties, and discovered in NAPA California. Notable compounds include Trimethyltryptamine, Himethoxy-methylamphetamine and Aeruginascin (THA) hence the pseudonym NAPA-THA. This is one of the world's most hallucinogenic mixtures known to man. A single drop on exposed skin will cause a person to stay awake for 47 days straight, and while under NAPA-THA's influence, will induce uncontrollable howling, "inversia" (seeing the world upside down), extreme euphoria, altitude sensitivity and outbursts of extreme artistic talent. Effects on pinball playfields are unknown.
    NAPTHA is a common household distillate and is safe to use as a mild cleaner on pinball playfields.

    *Naphtha

    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    2 months later
    -24
    #120 6 years ago

    ------------------

    #121 6 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    literally thousands use Novus 2 to clean playfields and thousands of others than me have made the "so what if it's not plastics, it works" argument, both here and many other places. It's great for playfields and doesn't harm them, and the facts are proven everywhere.

    Novus 2 is a polish, not a cleaner. Polishes are abrasive. If you keep using it as a cleaner over and over again, you're going to wear right through the topcoat and expose the paint.

    Polishes work by wearing down a surface to the lowest point where the scratches or wear marks are.

    Novus 1 can be used for cleaning in most cases, although for most cleaning products, it's better to spray it on a cloth or paper towel, rather than the playfield surface itself, so as to avoid having it soak in an potentially cause planking.

    -1
    #122 6 years ago

    Why in the world did I have to plug through 13 4chan gifs and wait a full minute for the page to load just to find out this is a troll thread?? What a waste of bandwidth donors like myself pay for.

    #123 6 years ago

    WTB six gallons of Novus 4 and some 60 grit sandpaper for my Gorgar Golden Girls retheme project. Let me know. Thanks!

    #124 6 years ago
    Quoted from radium:

    WTB six gallons of Novus 4 and some 60 grit sandpaper for my Gorgar Golden Girls retheme project. Let me know. Thanks!

    BLANCHE... HURT.
    SOPHIA... GOT... YOU...

    #125 6 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Why in the world did I have to plug through 13 4chan gifs and wait a full minute for the page to load just to find out this is a troll thread?? What a waste of bandwidth donors like myself pay for.

    Time to re-up that donation before complaining maybe?

    #126 6 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    Checked back here for no good reason other than the lulz (I have no intention of returning because it's a shitshow, same as I stated in my last post - and not knowing Stern's Star Wars was even released before I saw a picture of one of Facebook months late drama-free brought me GREAT joy might I add. No bitching. ) and remembered quickly why I left and so did many others.
    In reply to your argument: Except literally thousands use Novus 2 to clean playfields and thousands of others than me have made the "so what if it's not plastics, it works" argument, both here and many other places. It's great for playfields and doesn't harm them, and the facts are proven everywhere. If you're denying that just based on reading the bottle and saying "OH NO! PLASTIC CLEANER!", maybe you shouldn't be using lighter fluid on your playfield either, because that's for filling lighters. You must be fun at parties. Even shown above is yet another user using Novus 2 just posts after you saying "oh nobody does that you're inexperienced!!!!!!!!!1111111111". Proof in the pudding. It might not have worked on his nicotine but he wasn't pissing himself scared to the touch the playfield with it (and it turned out fine).
    Lol.
    Nothing changes around here.
    This place makes KLOV look like a haven. Heading back there, where people are sensible.

    Plenty of people on both...good to know that IS you on klov as well so I know not to listen to any pompous, inaccurate, ignorant, or just plain whiney things there either.

    If you stopped insisting on feeling you have all the answers, listened to experienced people, respected other's opinions, and stopped popping up just to repeat yourself and cry about it, you could probably enjoy this and other sites.

    Sincerely, take care and enjoy the hobby.

    #127 6 years ago

    Hey guys, um... Can you take Otaku Back? We are already tired of his attitude, shit talking, and we have already had to give multiple warnings...

    PLEASE vote and comment in this pole, Thanks

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-this-how-he-acted-here

    #128 6 years ago

    Wow after reading this thread over a few drinks (I somehow most have missed the original posting) and laughing out loud a few times.

    This just wants to make my cranky old ass go do my laundry with some...

    That is all

    IMG_1494 (resized).PNGIMG_1494 (resized).PNG

    #129 6 years ago
    Quoted from Bull:

    Wow after reading this thread over a few drinks (I somehow most have missed the original posting) and laughing out loud a few times.
    This just wants to make my cranky old ass go do my laundry with some...
    That is all

    Just be careful if you try laundering your playfield with it

    #130 6 years ago
    Quoted from Bull:

    Wow after reading this thread over a few drinks (I somehow most have missed the original posting) and laughing out loud a few times.
    This just wants to make my cranky old ass go do my laundry with some...
    That is all

    Ahhhhh. Fels-naphtha!!! The single dad, travel baseball coaches, best friend!! Takes clay and grass stains out of pants in minutes with minimal scrubbing!!!

    Btw for those that don’t know... I teach high school and yes... all kids these days know absolutely everything!! They invented the internet so they are the only ones smart enough to use it. I typically just laugh at them and wait for them to tell me ten years later I was right. For what it’s worth, I have been fixing pinball machines for half of Otaku’s life and I learn something new every single day. And it’s always from one of you “old bastards” as he affectionately put it lol.

    2 months later
    #131 5 years ago

    I’m sooooo confused.....
    On my 4th one (newbie em collector of dirty games) and it’s the worst one yet. Used novus 2 on the others worked for me but doesn’t touch the ball swirl marks. Afraid to try magic eraser on ball swirl marks cause I’m afraid of stripping clear and not wanting to reclear. Is there an ez way to re-clear small areas if you use the magic eraser method to remove the marks?

    #132 5 years ago

    The swirl marks are *within* the topcoat. It's not something that can be cleaned off.

    Magic erasers will strip the topcoat and expose the paint.

    #133 5 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    The swirl marks are *within* the topcoat. It's not something that can be cleaned off.
    Magic erasers will strip the topcoat and expose the paint.

    Topcoat on an em?

    #134 5 years ago
    Quoted from pacmanretro:

    Topcoat on an em?

    Yes, a topcoat of some sort--not a clear coat, though.

    #135 5 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Yes, a topcoat of some sort--not a clear coat, though.

    I agree about the swirl marks. Just wasn't thinking that all ems had a topcoat. Do some have a factory varathane or clear lacquer? Or is it usually just the silk screened paint?

    #136 5 years ago
    Quoted from pacmanretro:

    Do some have a factory varathane or clear lacquer?

    Basically, yes.

    #137 5 years ago
    Quoted from Heaterguy:

    Is there an ez way to re-clear small areas if you use the magic eraser method to remove the marks?

    No.
    You should read about Magic Eraser (and the rest of the thread) in vid1900 guide to cleaning and waxing: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide?tq=magic+eraser&tu

    #138 5 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Basically, yes.

    I'm going back thru vids guide again as well for fun.
    Anynody with specifics on what variety of paints and coatings were originally used? Just curious.

    Edit : I know Vid mentions lacquer specifically. Just was interested if anybody had insight for sure about who used what back then. This is probably best asked in vids guide though...

    There are 138 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.

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