You need back to black like this stuff.

http://mycarneedsthis.com/todays-best-plastic-restorers-for-automotive-detailing/

Thank you!

I like naphtha it does not dull the old clear it just takes all little extra effort

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It seems like you are doing that thing where you make an "edgy" or "rad" (what do the kids say?) thread and then hope to get fallout(??) and then complain or act shocked when you get fallout.

On topic, old dirty EM's like Novus 2. New games like a microfiber towel. I agree naptha stinks and I wouldn't use it. Novus 2 may be toxic but doesn't seem to put off fumes/gases that immediately hit the air returns in my house and poison everyone (I have to work on games inside).

Happy Friday! Cheers to your health!

Im really carefull when I spray 2pac but I must admit I am fairly careless around naphtha and novus (and gasoline, and paint, and solvents etc)...I should be more careful

So if you're ever out of naphtha and the local Walmart or Depot doesn't stock it, don't be shy and break out the alcohol. But if you do take the next step and pull out a power sander, don't get overconfident because it just cut your workday in half. Pay attention or it will end up like mine.

And if you do screw up, like I did there are still plenty of days in the week to fix it. Baby steps.

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Haha Vid is just lurking and laughing his ass off.

Someone just posted on naphtha last night, linking the msds— too lazy to look at it again or link it but it clearly stated no known health effects from inhalation unless to prolonged exposure. Getting it on your skin - I can’t remember that part but usually similar stuff just dries out your skin quickly. Quickly wiping a surface down with the product, not seeing a major health issue...

Dude, years ago I ate asbestos for lunch and benzene quenched my sthirst. And I'm still here.

Good grief. Novus 2 is a rubbing compound and has no business on a pinball playfield.

We have already established that clearcoat is a plastic, so why not novus 2?

I only use super lube for one thing......

No follow up from the OP, was this just a troll thread?

Yes. I don't understand it, OP used to be a good dude.

I knew a guy that buys and sells lots of machines, often doing varying degrees of shop out in between. He once showed me how easy it is to clean up a dirty playfield, and took liberal amounts of Novus 2 with 2000 grit sandpaper to a MB playfield to demonstrate. Seemed to me like a sure way to wear down the clearcoat, but it certainly cleaned up the dirt and some of the ball swirls. His top end games always looked nice when he was finished with them, but a I always questioned that cleaning technique.

My games are HUO and don't ever get real dirty, but I used to use Novus 2 (without the sandpaper!) and then wax when they needed a little shine. Since reading Vid's thread, I now use a little Naptha (and Novus 1) for these light cleanings and wipe downs. Works great. Always finish with a couple coats of Carnuba. My playfieds have always looked pretty damn nice.

I don't think he was trolling, he's a good dude

The eject hole, right?

Yeah Sure!!! Lmao!

I've heard about people using bleach for this.

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Stop digging.

If you use novus instead, stick to novus 1....trust me!!

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Nice guy!! Start a smart ass thread that half insults people and act shocked when you get blowback...then call everybody names and leave. I agree, there are some dicks on the internet, and pinside can be negative, but you really bring it on yourself with your own tone. Stop with the "old guys are all wrong" shtick. As an old guy myself, it's tiring...though everything is when you are old...so. What was I talking about?

And I AGREE with you on your actual topic!

Can I get some $ to fix a leaky basement? Too soon?

If you were in need, I would help you

Behave sump pump boy...

If anyone wants to clean their play fields with liquid sandpaper (because that's what Novus is), that's totally their prerogative. It's your game and you can treat it however you want.

My concern is that newbies will find this thread wanting to learn how to clean their game and end up hurting their machines because of bad information. Remember, just because half of Pinside cleans their play fields with Novus, doesn't mean it's the best method.

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Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, and many would like to tell others how they should do things without taking into account that each game will not require the same treatment to get that playfield to sparkle.

From alcohol to liquid sandpaper to real sandpaper, I've used them all. And most people that come over compliment me on how even the 70 year old playfields look and play remarkable. But I refuse to tell somebody what they should use or not use unless they ask me. I use what works for me.

I thought you were leaving Pinside?

Why did you come back? You haven't seemed to learn anything while you were gone, like no one likes a smart ass, or your long-winded "help" posts that put people down aren't going to get you showered with likes.

So is auto polish... yet we use "liquid sandpaper" all the time on our cars that cost multiples more than our pins and way thinner clear coats.

To worry about removing finish with novus on a modern game... you better have a long time and an overly aggressive powered tool. Rags and novus2 are not going to remove a whole finish.

Balls going over a playfield are going to leave damage over time. Novus 2 or even 3 won't make much of a difference unless using a power buffer. I'm a firm believer in cp100 for cleaning & waxing.

Otaku, you come on stronger than a jetliner crashing into a mountain top with your opening post and then you wait for a response. Then you are surprised when you get a number of extreme responses back but really it was you who -set the tone-.

You're a good guy from what I've read and really I think most people are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, because, being a young man, you may have a few things to still learn about human interaction/diplomacy etc. Pinside can be as you describe sometimes but please realize that you played your part in this one. Anyway, hope you don't think this is too negative for you but just trying to say it as I see it. Stay positive, take it down a notch (or two) and it will work out - pinside and otherwise.

You did also note that the start of this thread specifically mentions EMs and 60s-70s machines as well right? Not a heck of a lot of clear on those....not saying it good/bad, just saying I'm sure it's a lot easier to go too far there than the "modern" machines you mention.

Only mentioning it solely because that's what OP seemed to be discussing more so.

In fairness, farther down I see he mentions newer machines a bit as well....

EMs if well maintained over the years don't take much work.

But most that you buy now, and I'm sure many would agree, have not run in years and not always stored in ideal conditions. Many with no playfield glass as it was taken off for another machine. And the playfields can be filthy with years of ground in dirt.

So, you end up with a lot of variables in what's the best way to tackle each individual machine. Worst case is somebody applied a varnish or other yellowing topcoat over a dirty playfield many years ago which is what I was up against on the latest machine. It wasn't pretty. But I knew underneath all that it was.

At this point you have to decide how much work you want to do and what tools, cleaners, or anything at your disposal will get the job done. Sometimes the original topcoat will be sacrificed as well, but want to keep as much paint as possible so it can be touched up and new topcoat applied. Another game saved from the scrapheap and on to the next one.

Well... zero clear actually More like varnish. In the decades prior to pinside... I never came across anyone who took paint off with Novus on a playfield. The concerns have been "oh crap, n3 sure is more gritty than I thought!", and "magic eraser went too far...".

We've had to be worried about water based products planking playfields far far more than anyone has had to be worried about Novus2 being too aggressive for playfield finishes.

This whole thing is just a tempest in a teapot because some people have been preaching extremes. Truth is "use the least aggressive method necessary, and move up if your prior effort didn't cut it". Some instead try to talk in binary... and that is great if you want to incite contrary responses.. or troll forums

The effects of Basement mold on a young human brain; Oh well.

I don’t know is novus is the best cleaner — but otaku is right that a lot of people DO use it, and personally if I use it 4 or 5 times a year I don’t think my games are gonna be devoid of clearcoat and down to barewood.. it just isn’t abrasive enough, esp with a little firm hand pressure.

Regarding naphtha being so dangerous to your health, read the msds again— it states No long term damage from inhalation just possible short term nervous system symptoms unless you have prolonged/long term exposure. Same for skin contact — dermatitis ie dry skin, same result as running alcohol . Sure if you would rather avoid possible dizziness or a sore throat, wear a mask better to be safe. But as for the great harm and danger this chemical poses, I don’t see it.

Novus 2 "cleans" plastic by finely scratching the crap out of it smoothing out all the small scratches in the process. If that plastic was a layer covering the playfield, you wouldn't want it scratched away.

People polish, sand, scratch clearcoat all the time. So novus should be fine in some situations

Anyways, so what is the preferred "cleaner" if napatha and novus are not the recommended cleaner

Simple green for modern games maybe

Novus 5 times every year

That is the only part in your statement that made me double take. If you used abrasive novus on an older machine and owned it 20 years, you would have lightly sanded it 100 times! Probably wouldn't have much left by then. The lightest of sanding 100 times on even a heavy clearcoat honestly still sounds like a LOT to me, but maybe not; I don't know since I have never done that.

I'm not saying I've never used magic eraser or Novus 2; I have, and it helped knock those spots on nasty playfields down when other items couldn't...but, I have also seen color on my rag (obviously especially with Melamine) when using on older machines.

I agree with the comments about every case is different, start with lightest and be more agressive as needed, etc. There is no cold hard answer for every machine type in every possible condition.

As far as the ENTIRE original point of this particular thread goes......well.....it has ABSOLUTELY NONE!

This threads point was telling people to use N2 over naphtha; which makes no sense what so ever since they are used for 2 different things.

Multiple times people already mentioned this, but it's like it didn't take for "some".
Before this thread, I never heard anybody make the statement about how bad naphtha was at removing dirt.

Simple...
Novus is an abrasive product that knocks down a small layer of the substrate (the use of this over many other methods wasn't the OPs topic).

VM & P Naphtha is a solvent (typically used in very small quantities) for removing various adhesives and as a quick wipe down to degrease prior to waxing/painting/clearing. I.E. NOT something slathered all over a machine to clean that dirt off with!

Safety/health hazard issues...well, certainly; most all chemicals have some. Solvent fumes aren't good! Dried compund dust inhaled is certainly not GOOD for you either. All work requires common sense and proper precautions and really shouldn't need explanation (unless of course a thread is specifically started asking, but then I would just answer with check MSDS). The comments about using indoors, what if someone sparked a game next to me, etc are just plain moronic to me. If it's cold in my garage, I wouldn't just take a part into my basement and spraypaint it against my furnace then complain I blew up....thats just Darwinian evolution at work.

Best product for the application and best safety practices. That simple

Ok well to be honest that’s an exaggeration - just throwing a number, but I don’t own any EMs - just talking about more modern games.

If someone can tell me another cleaner that works as good as naptha, doesn't harm playfield paint/clear and evaporates leaving little to no surface contamination after use, I'm all ears...

Are people using Novus THAT often on their games?! That is insane. It will take a while, but eventually you're going to start losing paint, even on a DiamondPlate. Bring out the repro PFs I guess.

What IS the best cleaner to use on a playfield? One that hasn't been sitting around for so long? I think Vid always said to vacumn the dust/particles and then just wax it.