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(Topic ID: 215891)

Prototyping a "Hardtop" (High Speed)


By Skypilot

2 years ago



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  • 521 posts
  • 84 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 72 days ago by Troyster42
  • Topic is favorited by 71 Pinsiders

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There are 521 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 11.
#451 10 months ago

You don't want them shiny if you are clear coating. Shiny equals nothing for the clear to bite to.

#452 10 months ago

Doh. You're right. Okay, so how about this question..

Several of my inserts have this kind of stuff going on. Will this show through once cleared? I'm assuming yes...

These are back down to 1000 grit.

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#453 10 months ago

As I said before.... Wipe it down with Naptha... Look at it wet, that is how it will look cleared.

#454 10 months ago

Sorry, thought I mentioned them looking better when I wiped down with alcohol (I don't have naptha, at least right now). Going to clear it (as soon as it's warm enough, I guess) and see how it looks. I went over all the inserts with the 1000 grit again last night.

#455 10 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Doh. You're right. Okay, so how about this question..
Several of my inserts have this kind of stuff going on. Will this show through once cleared? I'm assuming yes...
These are back down to 1000 grit.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

You might as well keep going to up to 3000 grit on those inserts and avoid clearing them. At 1000 you are already risking ghosting clear coat. You’ll end up with this result a few months after you’re done. Learn from my mistakes.

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#456 10 months ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

You might as well keep going to up to 3000 grit on those inserts and avoid clearing them. At 1000 you are already risking ghosting clear coat. You’ll end up with this result a few months after you’re done. Learn from my mistakes.[quoted image][quoted image]

Oh man... That's what I was afraid of..

#457 10 months ago

I also went without clear. Just wet sanded 1000 then 3000 grit, followed by a Novus 3-2-1 pass, and naptha to clean off any residual Novus.

Turned out great!

#458 10 months ago

I am about ready to start mine. For me the clear seems like a bad idea. I’d rather just sand and polish the inserts and not stress about ghosting. Why clearcoat something you are about to put a hardtop on?

1 week later
#459 9 months ago

Not a ton of progress... Too damn cold to go finish clearing the shooter lane... Still need to finish polishing inserts afterward, also. Not going to clear the whole thing.

Boards came out and are headed for refurbishing/bulletproofing by one of the best resources I know. He's getting my space shuttle boards to do at the same time.

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2 weeks later
#460 9 months ago

This shooter lane is going to make me pull my hair out. I can NOT get these pin-holes to fill in when I spray. What am I doing wrong?!

I keep spraying and then wetsanding back to 500, hoping they'll fill in on the next round of clear. A few have but the majority just refuse.

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#461 9 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

This shooter lane is going to make me pull my hair out. I can NOT get these pin-holes to fill in when I spray. What am I doing wrong?!
I keep spraying and then wetsanding back to 500, hoping they'll fill in on the next round of clear. A few have but the majority just refuse.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Don’t ball guides go in those holes?

#462 9 months ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Don’t ball guides go in those holes?

Those spots are covered, yes. But there are plenty of pinholes in the actual lane itself. The hardtop does cover a lot of this though so maybe I'm worrying too much. But it looks BAD.

Also, why the hell does the point for the hardtop sit so damn high on mine?!
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#463 9 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Those spots are covered, yes. But there are plenty of pinholes in the actual lane itself. The hardtop does cover a lot of this though so maybe I'm worrying too much. But it looks BAD.
Also, why the hell does the point for the hardtop sit so damn high on mine?!
[quoted image][quoted image]

Those holes look like screw holes for the playfield side rails.

#464 9 months ago

No no, ignore THOSE. I know the actual holes in the playfield are supposed to be there. I'm talking about the patchy clearcoat that refuses to fill in no matter what I do.

#465 9 months ago
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#466 9 months ago

Random question, but.. cliffy for the kickout along with the hardtop? Yes/no? On top of or below the hardtop?

#467 9 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Random question, but.. cliffy for the kickout along with the hardtop? Yes/no? On top of or below the hardtop?

You mean the kickout on the lower left? Or the “Escape/Extra Ball” saucer?

Either way, my take is no.

Also, any Cliffy would go on top.

#468 9 months ago

Not that high speed is any closer to being up and working as far as the hardtop goes (finally decided I'm just going to sand down all the crappy clearcoat I sprayed on it and start over on the shooter lane) but the boards are back from being repaired, with NVRAM installed. It cycles through the attract mode callouts which is neat at least..

Now it's too cold to spray, again, but I'll probably work on some sanding this weekend. I NEED to get rid of those fisheyes--they're hideous.

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#469 9 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Not that high speed is any closer to being up and working as far as the hardtop goes (finally decided I'm just going to sand down all the crappy clearcoat I sprayed on it and start over on the shooter lane) but the boards are back from being repaired, with NVRAM installed. It cycles through the attract mode callouts which is neat at least..
Now it's too cold to spray, again, but I'll probably work on some sanding this weekend. I NEED to get rid of those fisheyes--they're hideous.[quoted image][quoted image]

Great collection of games you have there...High Speed restored with a hardtop will fit in real nice!

#470 9 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Great collection of games you have there...High Speed restored with a hardtop will fit in real nice!

Thanks! I'm feeling the lineup pretty well. I'm still surprised how much fun EBD is, even in the poor state mine is in. I think that's a testament for how much fun it will be once it's hardtopped.

As for high speed, my woes continue. I took off some of the finish on the shooter lane trying to get rid of those pinholes that are making the clear look so bad (and even with sanding THAT hard, I STILL didn't get rid of all of the pinholes) so I guess now I'm looking at filling and then re-staining prior to clearing. I'm definitely in over my head on that so I'm bringing my dad into the fold (he's got a full woodshop). Really wishing I hadn't been so aggressive with the shooter lane to begin with, it's really added a lot of grief to my plate.

#471 9 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Thanks! I'm feeling the lineup pretty well. I'm still surprised how much fun EBD is, even in the poor state mine is in. I think that's a testament for how much fun it will be once it's hardtopped.
As for high speed, my woes continue. I took off some of the finish on the shooter lane trying to get rid of those pinholes that are making the clear look so bad (and even with sanding THAT hard, I STILL didn't get rid of all of the pinholes) so I guess now I'm looking at filling and then re-staining prior to clearing. I'm definitely in over my head on that so I'm bringing my dad into the fold (he's got a full woodshop). Really wishing I hadn't been so aggressive with the shooter lane to begin with, it's really added a lot of grief to my plate.

Only about an inch is exposed at the max on the hardtop in the shooter lane. Remember the enemy of good is perfect. I did not stain mine in the shooter or anywhere else. But, I would sand the lane re-shoot it with the 2PAC clear (in a can) lay it on thick that should fill in the pinholes you are seeing. The 2PAC in a can is amazing stuff the best clear out there just kind of toxic. I pretty much shot my whole playfield with the 2PAC but didn't care about areas that were covered by the hardtop except the inserts the rest was a light mist of clear only. It was just easier to shoot it all then mask anything (covering opening in the playfield of course).

If you are not using 2PAC - you should...product name below....

USC SprayMax 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear - it is on Amazon and their is forum on Pinside on how everyone uses it on all projects

I am jealous of the EBD - I have always wanted one but I am full up on machines and it would be an old one for me, but it was the game that I remember as a kid playing so was High Speed. I have recently been sticking only with newer titles nothing older than a WPC like Fish Tales, Getaway, WH20. My plan was to get down to just a few machines I really like but we all know how that goes.

#472 9 months ago

I really screwed up my shooter lane (not the trough itself, that's actually fine) pretty badly on HS. I think I'm at the original "worst case scenario" from when I started, where I've sanded off part of the stain trying to remove the stupid pinholes. So now I'm thinking I need to finish the job to get it all over consistent color, then lightly re stain, then clear. The hardtop and wood rails should cover any sloppiness I will no doubt have.

EBD came to me with Meteor and Black Knight 2000 (which I've since sold), all three for $2000. The high speed actually came from the same person, for $800. Can't complain one bit about not only the prices but also the titles I got from such a scenario. She also had a Pinbot but that somehow was the only one that sold quickly. The others sat on Facebook for months, in one of the most aggressive markets around here .. no idea. I'll take that blind luck though! They all did a lot of sitting and need TLC but nothing that shouldn't be expected from somewhat neglected/forgotten machines.

I'm hoping to finish dialing all these in and just play them for a bit. Funny though, I was so mad I couldn't immediately flip EBD because I didn't think it was worthy of keeping long term.. I'm an idiot. Glad I wasn't able to sell it, now!
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#473 9 months ago

Stain? There’s no stain on a playfield, the amber color is from age I believe.

The pinholes you mention may be fisheye effect, can be caused by contaminants such as silicon (ie from waxing playfield) that interferes with clearcoat. Has to be cleaned first.

Maybe take a break and assess what’s going on, get more help before proceeding?

Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I really screwed up my shooter lane (not the trough itself, that's actually fine) pretty badly on HS. I think I'm at the original "worst case scenario" from when I started, where I've sanded off part of the stain trying to remove the stupid pinholes. So now I'm thinking I need to finish the job to get it all over consistent color, then lightly re stain, then clear. The hardtop and wood rails should cover any sloppiness I will no doubt have.
EBD came to me with Meteor and Black Knight 2000 (which I've since sold), all three for $2000. The high speed actually came from the same person, for $800. Can't complain one bit about not only the prices but also the titles I got from such a scenario. She also had a Pinbot but that somehow was the only one that sold quickly. The others sat on Facebook for months, in one of the most aggressive markets around here .. no idea. I'll take that blind luck though! They all did a lot of sitting and need TLC but nothing that shouldn't be expected from high-end collector pieces.
I'm hoping to finish dialing all these in and just play them for a bit. Funny though, I was so mad I couldn't immediately flip EBD because I didn't think it was worthy of keeping long term.. I'm an idiot. Glad I wasn't able to sell it, now!
[quoted image]

#474 9 months ago

Really didn't want to share the picture because it's honestly a bit embarrassing but here it is...

'stained' may not be the proper term for what was done originally--I'm not sure--but there was definitely something done, intentionally, to highlight the shooter lane and I don't think it's just age/wear showing through... Maybe I'm wrong. At this point I see staining (slightly, not too terribly much) as my only real option to make this look presentable. As for whether I can sand those holes out, or fill them..I have no idea. It's fighting me the entire way.

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#475 9 months ago

Does anybody know if flash Gordon is going to be made again?

#476 9 months ago

Probably best to ask here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-hardtops-thread/page/23#post-5382692

Quoted from kba78:

Does anybody know if flash Gordon is going to be made again?

#477 9 months ago
Quoted from kba78:

Does anybody know if flash Gordon is going to be made again?

Yes it’s done. Pm me

#478 9 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Really didn't want to share the picture because it's honestly a bit embarrassing but here it is...
'stained' may not be the proper term for what was done originally--I'm not sure--but there was definitely something done, intentionally, to highlight the shooter lane and I don't think it's just age/wear showing through... Maybe I'm wrong. At this point I see staining (slightly, not too terribly much) as my only real option to make this look presentable. As for whether I can sand those holes out, or fill them..I have no idea. It's fighting me the entire way.[quoted image][quoted image]

Staining could even out the color so would some tan paint trying to match a wood grain. I have touched up a shooter lane with my best attempt at wood grain then a clear coat and it worked out ok.

But, OMG the price you got for multiple machines is awesome. I would take the deal you got all day long. Think EBD alone is $2k.

You are so lucky...good for you....

#479 9 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Staining could even out the color so would some tan paint trying to match a wood grain. I have touched up a shooter lane with my best attempt at wood grain then a clear coat and it worked out ok.

Yeah, basically my thinking here. I'm not aiming for 'perfect' -- nothing about the rest of this thing is or will be perfect, but it should be a good players example, same as all my other machines -- but I can't accept a splotchy miscolored lane, nor could I accept those awful pinholes. They were clear as day under the hardtop even with both the top and bottom film still on the hardtop. No way.

Quoted from wamonkey:

But, OMG the price you got for multiple machines is awesome. I would take the deal you got all day long. Think EBD alone is $2k.
You are so lucky...good for you....

Pure, unadulterated luck. I ended up flipping the BK2K (ironic, as that was the only one from that 3pc pickup that I actually wanted) for $2700 and that offset a ton of the cost. Otherwise I'd be lucky to have anywhere near what I have. Clearing out some other stepping stone titles along the way, I think I've got around $4500 in the 5. My goal is to not go over 5000 with everything done to them. Really it means nothing, but it'll make me feel good to be able to say I pulled it off. High Speed just needs to stop fighting me so I can reassemble and then start on EBD. The shooter lane is DIRTY on it but it appears to have good coloring still, so I'll be much less aggressive with it, to try avoiding what I'm dealing with now. That said, the shooter lane on HS looked like crap to begin with.

OH, also... Looking back at my pictures from the day I sanded the art off... It's clear as day I had ALREADY butchered the shooter lane. Yuck.

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#480 9 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Yeah, basically my thinking here. I'm not aiming for 'perfect' -- nothing about the rest of this thing is or will be perfect, but it should be a good players example, same as all my other machines -- but I can't accept a splotchy miscolored lane, nor could I accept those awful pinholes. They were clear as day under the hardtop even with both the top and bottom film still on the hardtop. No way.

Pure, unadulterated luck. I ended up flipping the BK2K (ironic, as that was the only one from that 3pc pickup that I actually wanted) for $2700 and that offset a ton of the cost. Otherwise I'd be lucky to have anywhere near what I have. Clearing out some other stepping stone titles along the way, I think I've got around $4500 in the 5. My goal is to not go over 5000 with everything done to them. Really it means nothing, but it'll make me feel good to be able to say I pulled it off. High Speed just needs to stop fighting me so I can reassemble and then start on EBD. The shooter lane is DIRTY on it but it appears to have good coloring still, so I'll be much less aggressive with it, to try avoiding what I'm dealing with now. That said, the shooter lane on HS looked like crap to begin with.
OH, also... Looking back at my pictures from the day I sanded the art off... It's clear as day I had ALREADY butchered the shooter lane. Yuck.[quoted image][quoted image]

Honestly - shoot the whole lane with a rattle can of something tan'ish or brush paint it with some of the $0.99 paint from Michael's or Hobby Lobby that lane was trashed before it will be tough to make it look right. Since so little will show beyond the hardtop just cover the whole area then clear coat it. It will just be a shooter lane without a wood grain as long as it is all one color it will be fine. You are smart to pause and make and effort at improving it because once you set the HT you are done.

BTW - my pinball collection started small and I had hopes to keep costs down on each restore but when you are doing so much it is impossible. I am restoring a WH20 now and it is the same way - well the ramp is OK but a new one would look better, it just goes and goes. I am with you I would have wanted BK2K more than the other titles. As soon as I finished my High Speed which I wanted forever I sold it, honestly I prefer Getaway and I was picking up WH20.

#481 9 months ago

I know others will say I am crazy - changing the pin by shooting the lane with a tan color but I think after your pictures I would shoot the whole bottom part of the playfield tan being careful not to hit the inserts and clear the whole bottom area. Your starting playfield is pretty trashed and it will still look dirty under the apron so why not shoot it all.

But, I would likely shoot the wood side boards on the top of the playfield black so pretty much any area that had a wood grain would be minimized.

I guess I was lucky my playfield was not that badly trashed.

I guess when you test set the hardtop you will see how little shows the wood grain - why not make it look like new. Otherwise you do just the shooter the under apron area will still look like spots of dark stain and dirty.

Just an idea...

#482 9 months ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

I know others will say I am crazy - changing the pin by shooting the lane with a tan color but I think after your pictures I would shoot the whole bottom part of the playfield tan being careful not to hit the inserts and clear the whole bottom area. Your starting playfield is pretty trashed and it will still look dirty under the apron so why not shoot it all.
But, I would likely shoot the wood side boards on the top of the playfield black so pretty much any area that had a wood grain would be minimized.
I guess I was lucky my playfield was not that badly trashed.
I guess when you test set the hardtop you will see how little shows the wood grain - why not make it look like new. Otherwise you do just the shooter the under apron area will still look like spots of dark stain and dirty.
Just an idea...

Good points. I didn't sand under the apron at all. I still could, I guess. My line of thinking was that the primary audience for a hardtopped game is significantly different than the audience of a super nice original. Thus, something unseen (for the most part) like under the apron really didn't matter all that much. Having things look good where they're in plain view (shooter lane, inserts, anywhere that might show the PF under the hardtop) and the game playing well (with bulletproofed boards, LED displays, etc) are far more important to the kind of person who would potentially be interested in buying it if I were to sell it later. I nixed originality all over the place on this thing the second I bought it--why not, I was just going to hardtop it anyway.

Still no idea if it's a 'forever' kind of game for me. Mine played like crap and I couldn't hardly make the ramp, so all my scores were dreadful. But the overall goofiness is likely perfect for my kids to enjoy long term, so I'm anticipating that it will be popular here once I'm done with it and I'm not looking at it as some sort of profitable flip endeavor.

My pf wasn't completely trashed when I started, imo, but the kind of damage it had wouldn't have been terribly easily fixed and I certainly wouldn't have had the skill to do it. Something tells me I'd have paid significantly more to hire that out than the hardtop cost me.

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1 month later
#483 7 months ago

Doing my best to make this look some level of acceptable so I can move forward. The main thing I needed to do was to get some paint on the sides because the clear didn't want to fill and left hideous dimples. This is definitely sub-par work, but it is what it is.
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#484 7 months ago

Think I'm ready to clear. I've officially hit "whatever, good enough".

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#485 7 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Think I'm ready to clear. I've officially hit "whatever, good enough".[quoted image]

Wood grain is tough - takes practice - colors are rarely solid but a bit of a blend. I think in the end it is a small shooter lane and is visible but not hugely so don't beat yourself up if it is not perfect.

I know mine are not perfect but it is better than a dirty shooter lane.

#486 7 months ago

I'm really not happy with it much at all, to be honest, but I'm really tired of messing with it. I liked the natural tones with clear over it but the clear refused to fill all the way in and that's why I'm here. I've got some pretty crappy looking lanes on some of my games, and this one looked BAD before I started sanding it, so whatever. But yeah, not fully in love with it myself unfortunately.

#487 7 months ago

Check how the ball sits in the groove. It probably doesn’t even touch the wood once the hardtop is installed. I would’ve just painted the whole shooter lane black by now. Or gray to match the roadway art work.
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#488 7 months ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Check how the ball sits in the groove. It probably doesn’t even touch the wood once the hardtop is installed. I would’ve just painted the whole shooter lane black by now. Or gray to match the roadway art work.
[quoted image]

You know, I really considered that. I realized at one point I was in too deep because when I sanded the original art at the beginning, I went too far and got in to the only part that's clear on The hardtop. That's what really sent me down this road. The lane on mine was BAD but I might have been a bit less aggressive with the sandpaper if I hadn't sanded too far in to begin with. Oh well, it is what it is.

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#489 7 months ago

Meh. I hate it even more today. Too cold to clear anyway, so I'm mixing some gray to match. Screw it.
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#490 7 months ago

Maybe eliminate the darker tone. I get what you're going for, but maybe using all light tone will blend better.

#491 7 months ago

Eh, I stripped it all off. If the gray looks bad I'll take another stab at getting a good brown tone maybe.

Trying to color match currently (not quite there yet), kinda wanna see if this looks heinous or not.
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#492 7 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

If the gray looks bad I'll take another stab at getting a good brown tone maybe.

You'll be surprised how little you notice that area once you get the rails and plastics back on the game.
I pretty much ignored that area until I had the Hardtop fully installed. Then thought I should have cleaned it up when I had the chance, but too late. Don't really notice it at all now.

#493 7 months ago
Quoted from RCA1:

You'll be surprised how little you notice that area once you get the rails and plastics back on the game.
I pretty much ignored that area until I had the Hardtop fully installed. Then thought I should have cleaned it up when I had the chance, but too late. Don't really notice it at all now.

You're not wrong. Of all of my machines, only Space Shuttle -- and only because it was hardtopped -- has a nice, clean / clearcoated shooter lane. The others are all various states of suck. But before I started looking at them specifically, I never really noticed, or cared.

I probably should have just cleared this ugly paint and called it a day. I slapped on a coat of gray (color is still not right, so just overlook that for now) just to see if I even liked how it was going to look... Not sure I'm digging it. So now I'm back to trying to mix a better shade of brown so I can paint like I had it previously, I suppose... This is definitely taking years off my life.

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1 week later
#494 6 months ago

Stripped off all of the paint and got it back as close as I could to where I had it prior to paint (stripping paint off of course added some ugliness), bought some 2X gloss clear to try, and finally gave in and bought naptha to make sure everything was really clean between coats. Finally getting some good shine and less fisheyes (by far) than before. Hoping to move back to unmasking and polishing so I can apply this hardtop soon. Good weather helps.

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#495 6 months ago

Ended up with some fisheyes I don't think I can fix; going to ignore them and move on. Good enough. I've got some inserts to polish again, then I need to go over them all again just to be really sure I'm happy with them, and then it's time to get this big sticker down..

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#496 6 months ago

Welp. No more waffling now...

Did a quick fix on the saucer, painted, and cleared, then buffed the inserts a couple more times, then stuck down the big sticker. Alignment wasn't perfect and I had to sharpie around a couple of inserts. Hopefully I don't find out I really screwed the pooch while I reassemble..

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#497 6 months ago

Looks pretty good...KSUWildcatFan.

#498 6 months ago

I have absolutely no idea how the shooter lane came out so good lmao

#499 6 months ago

shooter lane looks great

#500 6 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I have absolutely no idea how the shooter lane came out so good lmao

I think it looks great!

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