The auctions are even worse. Especially when its in a warehouse and there isn't any sort of air conditioning.

If you are bringing games to a show, try to remember that a lot of people don't like LEDs and/or get headaches from them. Try to resist the temptation to load your games with LEDs for the show. I know LEDs are widely accepted here, but in real life at shows there are a lot of people who won't play games that are blindingly loaded with LEDs. Fortunately most or all certified tournaments do not allow any LEDs in the games that did not come from the factory, so no one is forced to play games that have LEDs.

This is one of the downers about shows--and unfortunately, these jerks are at every show.

Really doesn't have to be this way IMO: show organizers need to do a better job of getting this message across to attendees.

I think a simple, 10-second spiel while they're handing out wristbands would do the job: a head 'em off at the pass, no-brainer approach IMO--that would result in a much more pleasant show experience for everyone.

Then back this up with a list of show rules handed out to each participant (so that way, at least you could refer to the printed show rules during the ensuing verbal confrontations).

One tip for those annoying machine hoggers is to stand next to or behind them with a friend and talk loudly about the game and its features, artwork, etc... The more you talk, the more they get annoyed. If they give you grief, just tell them that you are really interested in the game, never had a chance to play one, and are waiting for a chance to play when they are done.

Just an FYI then you probably don't wanna play my SM, AFM or Congo at Expo as they are all LEDed out that is the way they are at my house and I like them that way and don't change them out for shows or tournaments (I have never had an issue at any certified tournament I have taken my games to with them asking me to remove LEDs). I used to have the same issue (especially with my SM after the CT under cab lights were added) but I am used to it at this point and it doesn't bother me anymore.

Phoebe

People are really going to hate my machines then. All led and the flashers are nice and blinding.

Yeah, if I was bringing a machine to expo, you can play it the way I have it set up or go play a different game.

As someone who helps run a couple of shows and always brings multiple tweaked out machines, I can certainly say that all shopped out and functioning machines are welcome - full LEDs or not. Everyone has their preferences, which is what makes pinball so great. Some never play EMs, some only play EMs and some (like me) won't play a game full of LEDs. No big deal, just pointing out something to consider. When I bring games to a show I hope that everyone there will get in at least a few games and enjoy it. Hopefully this new LED-OCD board sells like hot cakes, so we can all enjoy games with LEDs in them. Until then, I will continue to simply walk past games at shows that are retrofitted with LEDs since I would rather not have a headache.

A nicely LED'd game is completely different than one that was done poorly or actually does not deal with them properly (i.e. ghosts or flickering).

I have seen both ends of the spectrum.

That said, everyone please bring any game you have and are willing to share to your local pinball event! Pinball is like women >>I appreciate all types

PT, is it the flickering that gives you headaches? If people have paid for the better LEDs, does that help with the headaches, or is it pretty much all LEDs?

Yes, there are definitely LED games that are worse than others. I have seen all levels. Basically they all give me a headache from the flicker (inserts) and strobe (GI) with the exceptions below.

We have a guy who brings a lot of games to the three Florida shows. He has modified his games to use DC voltage on the GI lighting instead of AC, so there is no strobing. It is really cool! Also, I am currently testing an LED-OCD prototype board for a Pinside member. It instantly eliminates flicker from insert LEDs. It also allows individual brightness control over every insert and makes the LEDs come on and off more smoothly like a real lamp. It is a totally awesome invention that brings retrofit LEDs to a whole new level and allows infinite customization.

I have an ACDC LE and absolutely love the LEDs in it. Point is that up until recently games were not designed for LEDs and this produces a lot of bad side effects. Some people like me are more sensitive than others. I was always the one who could hear the high frequency whistle from some older CRT TV sets. It drove me crazy, while my friends looked at me like I was crazy.

Another thing to do is bring some rubber furniture cups if the show floor is slippery. If you get the round ones, you need at least 1 and 3/4 inches. They're a little cheaper than the square ones (around $2/4pack)

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100190187/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=funiture+rubber+cup&storeId=10051

I would need a roll of paper towels to watch that... LOL

Same etiquette I ask of anyone. Basically...just don't be a dick.

I'm just not going, these types of rude people disgust me so much it offsets any fun I'm having. PBL open house is the only thing I'll go to after 2 years of Expo.

What do you mean by certified tournaments?

A few notes...

You're talking about 4 player games here, and sorry man - as a show organizer and someone who has dealt with the public in a lot of ways other than just organizing a show, this won't help at all. It's, sadly, up to the attendees to help police it.

You have two types of people that start 4 player games by themselves - people that don't know what they are doing, and people who are jerks.

There are certain games that people can easily start multiple games on themselves without intending to, even if they know what they are doing. For instance, Jurassic Park - press start and the game starts it's little intro with the music and whatnot, and the ball doesn't pop out right away. You don't realize what is going on, so you hit start again... still no ball. Start again... Oh, there is the ball... and now you've got a three player game going.

There are a number of machines that work like this, and the thing is that in a setting like a show where you might not know how the game serves up a ball, you can start multiple games at the same time totally on accident. There are a number of machines that this happens on for various reasons, and it sucks - embarrassing for the person playing and if anyone walks up. I've done it myself more than once. I hate flipping off and on machines too, so I'll generally start playing it, and then turn around and ask others to play whenever they get near, explaining I accidentally started multiple games, and giving them whatever one I'm doing the best on so far, or is next, or whatever.

Me telling people when I hand out wristbands not to do this won't work - they aren't intending to do so anyway.

As for jerks, if you are going to be a jerk and start four games at once, me telling you not to do it isn't going to stop you from doing it. The line is to thin from the 'accidental' multi-game starts above to the purposeful ones, so you can't really enforce it -- other than by the ways that people have already mentioned, namely people walking up and asking to get in on the game, or people calling others out on it.

I don't know what you're talking about here, as I know there is nothing in the IFPA rules about not having LEDs in machines that are being used in tournaments. I personally have actually switched certain inserts on my machines *to* LEDs simply because if they are really important to the tournament, I don't want them burning out. I'm overly careful about my swaps because I have a bum left eye that I blew out with a nail a couple years ago now that is totally light sensitive, but if an all LEDed machine came along, I wouldn't turn it down for the tournament. Roger, Josh and Zach Sharpe have all been to our tournaments too (heck, Roger is who convinced me to start hosting it in the first place!), and have never once said anything about games with LEDs.

...okay, so a few quick other things...

- As mentioned, start one player games or if you end up with multiples ask around. Heck, ask around anyway, as competing and meeting new people is the biggest REASON that I think there is to go to a show. I've met multiple good friends now from going to shows.

- Wear extra deodorant. The 'smelly folk' are generally more because most shows get really hot than they don't bathe, but it does suck to be next to a smelly person. For most shows, the heat is impossible to get a good fix for. Hotels aren't made for the heat of 100 pinball machines and 500 people in a room at once.

- If a machine is broken, turn it off. Text the person if you can, or leave a note, or tell someone nearby, or all of the above. If there are three balls jammed in the up-kicker, don't walk away and let the coil burn out.

- Don't turn on machines that are off. They are off for a reason.

- Thank people who bring stuff. Whomever brings whatever, it's a HAUL and a pain in the butt to do so. You might go in wanting to play AFM, MM, LOTR and SM all day, and find that all that you can play is Dragon, Count-Down, Charlies Angels and Space Station. Don't be disappointed, enjoy checking out some stuff you might not have played before (and Count-Down kicks major butt).

- Finally, talk to people! I have slowly found that for me, I often don't play games at all. I've gone to Expo for about 10 years in a row, only missing I think last year because I was really sick, and the last three times I was there I made a point of playing three games in the 6 hours I was there. The other 5 hours and 45 minutes I spend talking to people. That's where the real fun comes from, and you can really find people to share the love of your hobby with too!

That was longer than I intended it to be, hope it helps!

I've never heard of this either and I've played in several IFPA-sanctioned events that had games with LED swaps (in fact, a few of my own did). However, he could be talking about a local/regional league or something along those lines. There's also the NPL http://www.nationalpinballleague.com/

Featured on ESPN 8, the ocho.

There probably should be. Tournament games should be as close to possible as what a player typically plays on location. People are going apeshit with LED's lately and some of the games are virtually unplayable IMO. It's one thing to play a game with hard settings. A player shouldn't have to deal with bad lighting too. LED's should compliment a game, not overwhelm it. It may look pretty in pics, but the game doesn't play right.

Someone in league was having trouble with LED's at a new location (somebody's house) just last week. The games weren't overly pimped, but she was definitely having trouble with them. Please do not drive the ladies away from league. Thank you.

Tournament games typically have increased pitch, outlanes removed, EB off, hard scoring. I rarely see games set up like that on location and if I did I would not be playing ta that place again.

Outlane posts aren't typically removed. Unless it's PAPA A division or a game with really long ball times.

Players expect the other things. They don't expect the light scheme to be completely changed in way that makes the game even more difficult to play. Have you ever played a game with bad LED's? I have. It can completely change how the game plays. Too much to adapt to in a single tournament.

For the more popular games, I always follow a preset routine of courtesy:

1. Wait in line for "insert popular game here", and when available, continue to step 2.

2. Play one game.

3. Check behind self: If nobody is waiting, go back to step 2; if someone is waiting, continue to step four.

4. Offer to play a two or more player game with the person(s) standing behind you, because friendly competition is fun. If they agree continue to step 5, if not skip to step 6.

5. Play a two or more player game with those who have been waiting. If you win, go back to step 3, if you lose, continue to step 6. If you have won three times in a row continue to step 6.

6. Stop playing "insert popular game here" and play some other great but less popular games for a while. Then eventually return to step 1.

This topic is interesting and I agree that bad LED set ups can make the game blinding, if not difficult to locate the ball...but you're also driving your point to a possible "tournament directors are retarded" conclusion. Most people who run tournaments, especially majors, test the equipment. I wouldn't imagine something like PAPA or Pinburgh not being aware of a truly bad LED set up if they had one on any of the finals machines.

To add another counter-point to your other angle, that games should be as route-like as possible: A big part of hardcore competition in every game type is adaptation. You need to adapt to the table conditions, the table's rules, how the table is set up, the type of rubbers being used, your opponents' mind games, the type of floor, the weather outside, etc. When it comes to bad LED set ups that are blinding players, I am totally behind you. Players not adapting to an adequate LED set up, however, I'm not.

There's a middle ground.

*Outstanding* post. I agree completely with all your points. As someone who has done the tournament directing thing for a while, especially one with extreme light sensitivity in one of my eyes to the point that regular flashers give me a shooting pain in my head often, if I can't look at the game comfortably, I'm not going to toss it in the bank. It's pretty easy to see what is fair versus what isn't.

Two years ago, I used my 100% LEDed DM in our tournament. No one complained about it in the least. It's tastefully done.

I wouldn't put a "bug zapper" in the line up as my good friend and head tournament ref calls them. That's tough to look at for long periods, so he wouldn't want to be scoring it all day, never mind what the players might think of it.

Not really etiquette, but a little show tip:

Keep a small bottle of hand sanitizer in your pocket and use it regularly throughout the day.

1. Because others don't use it.
2. Because chicks dig it ( if you keep it in your front pocket

OMG! Skip the LED/Tournament discussion for a sec, because this just reminded me:

Wash your gawd damned hands when you go to the bathrooms please!!!

Every time I take a piss at a show, there is someone walking out without washing their hands...making a B-line for the nearest open machine. We're all touching the same buttons man!

How about washing your hands before you take a piss !!!!! keep those germs off your junk.

You're seriously contending that if you recite a short, 10-second spiel to hundreds of people about about courteous play/machine hogging while handing out wristbands right before you allow them access to the event, that it won't make an impression on anybody--and won't help at all?

That doesn't seem possible.

No harm in trying.

PAPA strives to keep the games as original as possible (except for mini tourneys). Won't ever happen there.

Adequate is very subjective. So is taste. When it comes to LED's, less is always more.

Most people at the shows are very polite and courteous, but every now and then you'll come across a Social Neanderthal dragging his hairy knuckles across your favorite machine. As he tries to paw his way to the high score, he remains completely oblivious to the fact that creative capitalism and North American Industry have developed some amazing modern conveniences for the human race known as the hair brush, soap, odor eaters and breath mints.

Oh well..... Crap game anyway.

That is so foul on every level imaginable. I don't want someone's wang on my hands.... gross as hell.

Seriously, what makes people think that is ok..... and WHY do people urinate and not flush at the standup stalls ? Why do I have to walk up and get the foul stench of ammonia hitting me dead in the face because someone is:

A. Too lazy to flush
B. May not have washed their hands either (Logic: Man, I didn't touch the stall handle so I don't need to wash my hands....)
C. Now has their wang all over their hands, opening the bathroom door AND hitting the buttons on the machines...

SO foul - seriously - I know I struggle in areas of my life, but dang....

I did not read through all this but, one game at a time and if I want to play again or someone walks up when I am on my first ball... I always ask them if they would like to join in on player two.

Had to post this as I just remembered:

Take off your rings!

I didn't think it had been mentioned, yet.. maybe I looked over it.

At last year's MGC, there was an older guy playing WCS94 for what appeared to be a straight hour. He wasn't inviting anyone to play doubles, etc with him. He didn't seem to care or notice the world around him. Rude.

This happened to me in Italy many years ago. You squish a pastry in a half bottle of water. Shake it up. Squirt it on the person that won't get off a machine and tell him you just puked on him. When it happened to me it was to rob me. Would work well to get someone off a pinball machine.

If there are 25 people in line waiting to get into the show it seems foolish to recite a ten second speech to each one of them that you don't think will make a difference. That slows down the line substantially.

So I know on location, you used to put your quarter down if you were waiting. Do people still do that or even know what that means? I haven't had to do that recently although I usually ask someone if they will be playing again or want to play 2-player (or more).

At shows, everything is often on free play so the quarter thing is kinda weird, but at least it would be an easy way to let folks know you are waiting. I know some people have custom tokens with their initials on them that can work too if you happen to carry those around all the time

i think most people would know what that means, but it might be a little awkward in a room full of games set on free play. i know nobody reads signs, but a sign on basic etiquette posted somewhere might be all that can be done.

at the FPO last spring, was a group of 3 guys monopolizing both Monster Bash and Addams Family at the same time. the two games were placed facing each other in the room, and I'd never played either one before and waited for a while to play one or the other, but after standing there for a few minutes i realized this 3-person group was starting up four-player games on both machines and then the three of them were rotating between the two games, alternating turns. when I asked if I could play one of the players on Monster Bash, they reluctantly agreed, but acted like i was really intruding into their group, and after a ball or two they wandered awkwardly away in the middle of the game, leaving both machines abandoned in the middle of 4-player games.

Can you just walk up to them and ask them if they mind adding you to the next game so you could play together?

That is what I do usually . . . depends on the person or group playing though. I've met a lot of neat people that way too.

Hmm...

A souvenir "coin" for the show that also serves as a way to keep track of order. It's a collectible, it's practical and it's nostalgic.

That's kinda what I figured. I think people are nervous to do that, but I would love it if someone walked up to me and asked to play. I love meeting people, especially ones I share a passion/hobby with.

CA Extreme did this for a few years. In general, it did not seem to have a high positive impact on player behavior. Someone hogging a machine is more likely to respond to a question than to the "I got next" token.