(Topic ID: 234303)

Project Safari Help


By Spyderturbo007

9 months ago



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  • 51 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by mark532011
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There are 51 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 months ago

I picked up a second Bally Safari while back for parts, but when I got it him I thought, what the hell, I’ll try and get it working.

I stripped the top, cleaned everything up, replaced all the rubbers, rebuilt the pops and rebuilt the flippers.

Now that it’s mostly back together, I though I’d fire it up and see what happens. It has some issues that I need some help tackling.

I have no power to the playfield except for the kickout which is acting really strange. It kicks balls out regardless of game state. My other safari (when the ball drains) cycles the player unit and then kicks out the ball. As soon as this switch is tripped, it kicks out a ball. It even does this once following the game over light coming on.

#2 9 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I have no power to the playfield except for the kickout which is acting really strange.

Do you have a schematic you can scan (hi-quality at Staples)? IPDB does not have it.

For no power on the PF I would guess fuse or Jones plug, and for the kicker a score motor sw. or an Outhole/Ball Index kinda combo.

Be sure to have Staples save as a PDF if you go there. They do great scans for $2.

#3 9 months ago

I do have a schematic, but it’s paper. I bought it from PBR.

I checked the fuses and all 4 tested fine. I reseated all the Jones plugs in the head and in the cabinet. I squeezed the connectors a little to make sure they were nice and tight.

I have GI on the PF, but no switches, flippers, etc. the outhole kicker has power.

#4 9 months ago

Can't really say without seeing the schematic.

#5 9 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Can't really say without seeing the schematic.

Is there a section I should take a picture of and post for you? Is it alright to do that since I had to pay for it? I don’t want to “distribute” something I’m not supposed to.

#6 9 months ago

It's OK to distribute Bally schematics.
I'll need to see a high quality scan of the schematic from (for example) Staples ($2) or Kinkos ($6)

#7 9 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

It's OK to distribute Bally schematics.
I'll need to see a high quality scan of the schematic from (for example) Staples ($2) or Kinkos ($6)

Perfect. I didn’t want to step on anyone’s toes. A friend of mine is going to photoshop together some high resolution pictures for me into one file. Once I get it I’ll post it up.

#8 9 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I didn’t want to step on anyone’s toes.

Gottlieb is the only one with copyrights, etc. that prohibit sharing.

#9 9 months ago

Here is a link to the schematics. It's not a scan, so it's pretty big (88MB).

https://sharesync.serverdata.net/us3/s/MvxVWBkdISD1grByAvTGjR003d191d

#10 9 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Here is a link to the schematics.

No good, at least for me.

#11 9 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

No good, at least for me.

I found that schematic blurry in spots and I couldn't find the legend where the relays and solenoids locations are listed.

#12 9 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

No good, at least for me.

That's odd. It's a .PDF file. I was able to download it without issue.

Quoted from HowardR:

I found that schematic blurry in spots and I couldn't find the legend where the relays and solenoids locations are listed.

Were you able to zoom in? Mine is as clear as the printed copy. There are a few places where it doesn't line up 100%, but I'm able to read everything.

Do you have an example of what the relay & solenoids legend looks like? I only have the schematic and the one with the scoring motor switch stack information.

#13 9 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Do you have an example of what the relay & solenoids legend looks like?

Here it is on an extract from the Bally Dixieland schematic, made the month before Safari.
https://www.ipdb.org/files/692/Bally_1968_Dixieland_Schematic_continuous.pdf

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#14 9 months ago

Hi Spyderturbo007
Your pin kicks out the ball when the Game is in "Game-Over" --- see the JPG: So You close "encircled orange" switch - when "encircled red" switch is faulty closed: All the "encircled green" stuff is allowed to happen - to kick out the ball. Greetings Rolf

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#15 9 months ago

Why not do it right and get it scanned at Staples for $2? An 88 meg file is kind of ridiculous.

#16 9 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Why not do it right and get it scanned at Staples for $2? An 88 meg file is kind of ridiculous.

I didn't have time to go until tonight.

Here is the scan of the schematic.

https://sharesync.serverdata.net/us3/s/sXb7sjuw9OKo3yfB4a5U2c003d191d

#17 9 months ago

Alrighty! For the PF problem, the make/break on the Start relay looks to be the problem, although the right side also shows a route thru the Trail disc.

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#18 9 months ago

For the Ball kicker, check the schematic at 38.5, lower half. It looks probably that score motor sw. 10B and/or 1D could be the cause.

#19 9 months ago

So, let's pretend for a second that I'm an idiot and have no clue what you just said.

How do I go about even finding the start relay? By make/break, I think you're referring to the switches that, when the armature moves, the NC side opens and the center switch makes contact with the other side and closes the NO switch. So if I indeed even find the switch, how do I know which side is supposed to be NC? Just in case it has been bent and it's backwards.

Sorry for such basic questions, but I guess we all have to start somewhere.

#20 9 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

How do I go about even finding the start relay? By make/break,

The Start relay should be on the bottom of the cabinet, hopefully near the front of a row of relays, which again hopefully are labeled. Then there should be only 1 or 2 make/break (M/B) sw, which will have three blades. Two should be touching and when energized the middle will move to the other outer blade.

And always better to ask about something you're not sure about! Here is a link to Clay's excellent EM guide. Read down to 2f and 3h. http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1

#21 9 months ago

Well, I'm pretty sure I did it this time.

I looked at the Start relay and it appeared to do what it was supposed to do. I also looked at 10B & 1D both of which looked ok....I guess. My sheet says that 10B should be NC and 1D should be NO. So then the question is what is the "Normal" part? Game off? Game Over? Ball in shooter lane? Switch stack removed from scoring motor?

I then pulled the play field out and tried to get a better look at things and was playing with the relays, manually closing them to see what they did. Every switch should change state when the relay pulls in, correct?

Thinking that made complete sense, I found two that didn't change state. One on the Anti-Cheat and one on the Hold. They were both closed regardless of the position of the relay. I looked further and saw that you can tell if the switch is supposed to close or open based on which side of the switch is the longer and sticks into that plastic thing that moves the stack.

Now that I "had it all figured out", I adjusted the two switches and put back in the play field. I powered on the machine and immediately heard a buzzing, looked down and saw one of the switches arcing for a few seconds and then stop.

Here's the problem.....I have nothing unless I hold in the left flipper. When I do that, the play field lights up and anti-cheat pulls in. On my other Safari, the left flipper is what turns it on when it is off so that makes a little sense, but I shouldn't have to hold it in.

Help!

#22 9 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I have nothing unless I hold in the left flipper. When I do that, the play field lights up and anti-cheat pulls in.

If the Anti Cheat relay won't hold in, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

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#23 9 months ago

I appreciate the help, but everyone is giving me too much credit. I don’t even know how to tell what a normal state is on a game when trying to figure out if a switch is supposed to be opened or closed.

Me attempting to diagnose a circuit with alligator clips, having no clue what I’m doing, sounds like it’s either going to end with me getting electrocuted, destroying the game or burning down my house.

I would have no clue where to attach the wires. The schematics make absolutely no sense to me and I’ve tried, really tried to understand them by reading various “how to read schematics” articles.

I need a class or something. Somewhere I can go and have a person point to something and answer my question.

#24 9 months ago

If you'd like to try a phone call, send me your phone # in a private message. I have some free time on Thursday.

#25 9 months ago

So I’m trying to work through that circuit visually because I don’t know what to do with these jumper wires.

I think I found the “Front Door Anticheat” and it’s closed. I have no clue what or where the “Coin Bounce” is or the “Shut Off”. Mine doesn’t have a shut off switch.

I think the “Bounce” is the one at the bottom of the cabinet and it’s defintily closed.

#26 9 months ago

Just a bump for someone that might be able to tell me where these switches are located.

#27 9 months ago

Take a few photos of your relay board inside the cabinet with the playfield up. Your machine is just a bit different in age than my Bally EMs, but maybe I can help identify some relays to start with. My schedule is busy, but still willing to help when time allows.

#28 9 months ago

"If you'd like to try a phone call, send me your phone # in a private message. I have some free time on Thursday."

Take HowardR up on his offer! I know he's helped quite a few people out that way.

#29 9 months ago

I offered local help.

I'm not sure he is quite ready yet, which is good. Learning is part if the fun (for most). EM repair and upkeep is not for the faint at heart!

#30 9 months ago
Quoted from Skidave:

I offered local help.

You did indeed, which is great!

#31 9 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

And always better to ask about something you're not sure about! Here is a link to Clay's excellent EM guide. Read down to 2f and 3h. http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1

Spyderturbo007 - Don't get discouraged; things will come to you. I urge you again to check out Clay's guide so you get more familiar with the workings and terminology of EM machines.

#32 9 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Spyderturbo007 - Don't get discouraged; things will come to you. I urge you again to check out Clay's guide so you get more familiar with the workings and terminology of EM machines.

Thanks for the assurance. I purchased access to his Pinball Ninja website and his EM DVD awhile back (I think it's the same person). I've watched all of the EM videos and the DVD, but I'm still having issues locating things. I was able to fix the sluggish player unit stepper though, so that's a plus.

I appreciate the help offer Dave, but you have a family and spending time with them is more important than helping some bonehead you've never met before fix his busted ass game. I don't like to impose on people and thought I might learn more if I tried to plow through this myself up until the point that I want to set it on fire. I post here because I figured everyone is here anyway so it's not as much of an imposition.

#33 9 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I purchased access to his Pinball Ninja website and his EM DVD awhile back (I think it's the same person)

Yes it is. ^^^^

Hang in there. There will be an "a-ha" moment in your understanding of the EM circuits. Once that happens, the rest will practically fall in place. You will see the schematic and be able to "see" the state of the switches and how to find them in the game. Don't worry, it will come......but get the "start it on fire" idea out of your head. They play much better when not on fire.

#34 9 months ago

Here are some pictures. In the picture, HowardR recommended I look at the following switches. Front Door AntiCheat (NC), Left Flipper Button (NO), Shut Off (NC), Bounce (NC) and AntiCheat Relay (NO).

Am I correct to assume that the power flows from the Front Door AntiCheat to the Left Flipper Button then to the Shut Off, then Bounce and finally the AntiCheat relay? If so, since I watch the AntiCheat relay latch on when I hit the flipper button, doesn't that mean that the circuit is complete? The problem is that it won't stay in and releases as soon as I let go of the flipper button.

I think the Front Door AntiCheat is the funny looking switch at the far left of the coin door. I'm pretty sure the Bounce is in the bottom of the cabinet and is labeled Bounce Switch. The AntiCheat relay is labled, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for on that.

I can't find the Coin Bounce and the Shut Off. There isn't anything with those labels.

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#35 9 months ago

I would start using your meter and measuring point to point where Howard pointed out (red) in the schematic. Make sure what contacts are normally closed are closed and what is open is open. Look at the wire colors and follow along. You have your other Safari there. It makes easy troubleshooting to compare working Vs non-working.

No worries about my family time. Someone came to help me one evening get started on a repair and I enjoy paying it forward. Plus, I never played a Safari!

#36 9 months ago
Quoted from Skidave:

I would start using your meter and measuring point to point where Howard pointed out (red) in the schematic. Make sure what contacts are normally closed are closed and what is open is open. Look at the wire colors and follow along. You have your other Safari there. It makes easy troubleshooting to compare working Vs non-working.
No worries about my family time. Someone came to help me one evening get started on a repair and I enjoy paying it forward. Plus, I never played a Safari!

I'll start poking around tonight. I was looking at the other Safari, but they are different. This one has an "alternator" (whatever that is) in it along with a totally different coin door. Someone also hacked in a power button and some stupid ass credit button, so the wiring is different.

#37 9 months ago

I have to be dumber than a brick or something. I can’t get a reading off this game anywhere with my multimeter.

I grabbed my little pen looking voltage detector and started poking around. I get no voltage (no matter what) through the main fuse. But when I hold the flipper button the backbox illuminates. Maybe I should look at the incoming power before I do anything. Someone hacked in a power switch so I’m not sure if that’s the issue or not.

I have a brand new cord here from PBR that I was going to install but wasn’t sure where things went. The power switch at the bottom of the cabinet can go for all I care.

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#38 9 months ago

From the photos, looks like the switch is between the fuse and transformer. This should be fine.

Remove power (unplug) and use your meter in Ohm (resistance) mode. Measure the point to point for the anti-cheat relay and associated components. That is the best place to start. If you are comfortable, you could also plug back in, turn on, and measure (AC Volts) power coming out of the transformer to make sure it matches the voltages on your schematic (or close).

That is the most basic to at least make sure you are getting power and connection path to the anti-cheat relay.

Transformer: between #8 and #4 should be around 55 Volts and between #8 and #10 should be about 6.5 Volts.

#39 9 months ago

Ohm out the red paths. Look at the front door anti-cheat switch, coin bounce switch (both are normally closed) then keep going. Pressing the left flipper button or start (maybe credit) button should engage and then hold the anti-cheat relay. Someone else correct me if I am wrong. This is just a bit older than my Bally EMs, but has a similar function.

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#40 9 months ago

Can you be a little more specific when you say "Ohm out"? That really doesn't mean anything to me.

Do I take the black lead and attach it to one lead of the switch and the red lead to the other and measure the resistance? Wouldn't I want continuity so I know if the switches are actually registering as closed?

When I get to the relay, how do I know which switch to test? There are a bunch on that relay.

#41 9 months ago

Sure, digital or analog meter? If digital, set to Ohms and short your lead tips to each other. You should see zero Ohms or close (could be one or two ohms). If analog, then the meter should swing from one side of the scale to the other. One side will be zero and one side will be infinity.

Look at the schematic where my red line starts at the top left. That is near the front door anti-cheat switch. "30" in the little box indicates a yellow wire (see index on your top left of the schematic). Put one lead there (red or black, doesn't matter). Then go to the "48" wire on the switch, which is green with a black stripe wire. Put your other meter lead on this wire; you should read zero Ohms or close to it, because this switch is normally closed according to the schematic. Then follow that 48 wire to the next switch, the coin bounce. Again, one lead on the 48 wire and then the next lead on the 61 wire. This should be zero Ohms or close because this also is a normally closed switch. Keep going. In this case, I would personally follow it to the left flipper button to score motor 1 to the Anti-Cheat relay. Easiest path. In theory, from the yellow wire on the front door anti-cheat switch through the left flipper button (holding it in) to the the anti-cheat relay, should be zero Ohms.

#42 9 months ago

Holy %#*^in’ $*^! You’re the man Dave!!! That explanation was exactly what I needed.

The lights stay on when I hit the flipper button now! The Anticheat switch wasn’t making contact when the relay pulled in.

It was the switch with the brown /no tracer and the green/white. The switch wasn’t making contact.

I did exactly what you said (except my meter was on tone). Followed it along and viola’.

I’m going to put in the playfield and see if the flipper work. Standby for an update!

#43 9 months ago

Good to hear! Keep going.

#44 9 months ago

Almost everything works! Looks like I need to replace a switch in the pop bumper relay. The switch that is there, appears broken and isn't long enough to fit in the slot on the bake lite (sp) plate. Looks to be broken off at the top and is the one that must fire the coil.

I'm having some bell issues though. Someone hacked up the wiring a bit and the bell just makes a buzzing noise most of the time when it's activated. Almost like there isn't enough power to pull in the solenoid.

Where would I start to try and resolve that issue?

#45 9 months ago

If the Bell Adjustment is in the 10 Point position, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires starting with this switch on the 10 Point relay
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

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#46 9 months ago

I have some spare switch parts and pieces. Post a picture of what is broken and I'll look to see if I have something.

#47 9 months ago

Thanks Dave. The first picture is of the switch that doesn't extend up into the bake lite plate. Maybe it's just a generic switch I can get from PBR?

The second picture is the other part I appear to need which rings the 10 point bell. I found it in the parts manual as A-2858, but can't seem to find anyone that sells it.

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#48 9 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Thanks Dave. The first picture is of the switch that doesn't extend up into the bake lite plate. Maybe it's just a generic switch I can get from PBR?
The second picture is the other part I appear to need which rings the 10 point bell. I found it in the parts manual as A-2858, but can't seem to find anyone that sells it.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

In your first picture someone has clearly replaced the middle switch blade and neglected to install a leaf long enough to actually actuate. I, and many of us here, have the switch you need in our used spares supplies. Show it with a ruler so we can confirm size and I’ll be happy to mail you the switch you need.

#49 9 months ago

I do not have any switch blades that will fit. Glad you got the game up and going.

Call Steve at Pinball Resource and ask him about the bell part.

6 months later
#50 3 months ago
Quoted from MikeO:

In your first picture someone has clearly replaced the middle switch blade and neglected to install a leaf long enough to actually actuate. I, and many of us here, have the switch you need in our used spares supplies. Show it with a ruler so we can confirm size and I’ll be happy to mail you the switch you need.

I finally had a chance to open this thing up again. It’s amazing how much life gets in the way of a project game.

Anyway, the entire switch is 1 3/8”, with the actual metal switch blades being 7/8”

If anyone has one, I’m a buyer.

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