(Topic ID: 231017)

Finding my Place in the Frontier Food Chain -- Bally Style

By TractorDoc

5 years ago


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#701 4 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

Thank you for detailed installation and for the nice words.
It's really good to see the result of my effort - my Judge Dredd is disassembled, still in many boxes...

Without taking anything away from the existing crane mod, your mod is in a whole different league. I’d definitely be in for one.

#702 4 years ago

Several more overhead pictures.

Also updated the install post to show where to plug in the connector.

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#703 4 years ago
Quoted from cynric:

Do you have a picture of the shorter truss frame installed?

Ask and you shall see.

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#704 4 years ago

Longer truss looks way better. Davi killed it with this one! Can't wait to get mine. You are I are his first 2.. Mine is getting sent to HEP since he currently has my JD in his queue.

#705 4 years ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

Ask and you shall see.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Thank you! I do like the short version much better. It'd be nice if Davi gave us the choice when it's done

#706 4 years ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

Ask and you shall see.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I like this variation of the crane the best!

#707 4 years ago
Quoted from cynric:

Thank you! I do like the short version much better. It'd be nice if Davi gave us the choice when it's done

Quoted from chad:

I like this variation of the crane the best!

Quoted from Calfdemon:

Longer truss looks way better.

That's why I am going to offer both versions - don't worry

#708 4 years ago

Here is the separated thread about my crane mod:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/judge-dredd-active-3d-crane-modification

Don't want to hijack this thread with Dredd stuff, it's time to move on to Taxi

#709 4 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

Don't want to hijack this thread with Dredd stuff, it's time to move on to Taxi

You know @Davi, you might be right.

Originally Taxi was supposed to be a quick shop job. As I dig into the game more I'm finding several issues that might be fun to discuss in this thread.

This will not be a restoration. . . in fact it will be far from it. This will be more of a mechanical fix and repair issues type of a game to get it playing well enough to list in the marketplace. I've owned a Taxi in the past and it is a fun playing game, but I only have room for so many (I was supposed to sell Judge Dredd but cannot bring myself to do it!). Part of what I enjoy about the pinball hobby is learning and fixing the problems a game may have -- that task gives my mind something to focus on and is a type of therapy for me.

With all that said a thread title change will be coming as well as a wave of pictures of our new project. Yo, Taxi!

#710 4 years ago

Lets go Taxi! I don't have one so this will not cost me like the Judge Dredd project - Sniper Tower, Cooling Towers and now Davi has a crane coming my way

#711 4 years ago

Yay! Taxi is the next game I'm hoping to pick up. Or a Pin*Bot. Or a Cyclone. I just can't get enough of those System 11 machines.

#712 4 years ago
Quoted from ReadyPO:

Lets go Taxi! I don't have one so this will not cost me like the Judge Dredd project - Sniper Tower, Cooling Towers and now Davi has a crane coming my way

How about your Dredd plastic set? Cracked and faded, ready to replace?

#713 4 years ago

Ha! Actually, my plastics are pretty good except for two pieces - the Sniper Tower plastic, which is now removed for the Sniper Tower Mod, and the shooter lane plastic, broke when I got the pin and not yet fixed. I would be interested in just that one ...

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#714 4 years ago

Time for a Taxi Transition.

Getting acquainted with our new victim.
No dramatic acquisition story on this one. . . unless you count the four or five times I had to turn around to find the pickup location.

A couple quick games played revealed that there would be issues, but the price as right so we loaded up and headed home.

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#715 4 years ago

Game set up after an overnight in the Jeep (it happens).

Played a dozen or more games and started to form some second first impressions.

Cosmetics will be a secondary concern this time around (for now ). The playfield has wear, the ramps have cracks, and the cabinet has dings. Mechanically the game feels loose as you play. A number of fixed playfield parts actually move/wiggle when hit with the ball. One pop bumper was functional but all other solenoids were working. Some lamps were on, most were not. The spinout ramp registered about half the time. The arrival/departure bell does not ring. The rubbers were crumbling and leaving white crumbs on the playfield as I played.

On the plus side the flippers feel strong, all switches appear to work/register, and the game is fun to play. Even with parts moving that are not supposed to.

A quick view of the game setup. Oh Yeah, it also has a brand new topper. That was high on my list of concerns.

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#716 4 years ago

Some playfield pics.

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Its no cream puff, but I think it has potential.

I'll try posting some detailed pics of the problem areas in the next couple days. . . till then I hope you've enjoyed the ride thus far.

#717 4 years ago

Hey man, can you change the channel, I hate the f*cking Eagles...

#718 4 years ago

So Doc, keeping her Red or dying her blonde?

#719 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Frog:

Hey man, can you change the channel, I hate the f*cking Eagles...

I hope to play TBL someday. . .

Quoted from freddy:

So Doc, keeping her Red or dying her blonde?

Given that all the barber shop / hairdresser locations are closed in Ohio for the foreseeable future we may just have to stay red. . . hopefully it does not turn to gray before I get done!

#720 4 years ago

In no specific order I will try to point out some of our issues/problems and why they exist.

Starting with the pop bumpers -- I lifted the playfield and found one of the three plungers was stuck firm and could/would not drop down into the coil sleeve. The coil itself looked/felt a little crispy so I pulled the assembly from the playfield for a closer look.

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No binding on the yoke and the plunger had some wiggle to it; still no retraction into the coil though. I freed the coil from the bracket to find this:

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Looks like something is blocking the path of our plunger. . . likely melted coil sleeve.

I took to reading System 11 Pinwiki guides -- found a possible link? Copying/Pasting from their site:

"The pops and slings on system 9/11 games do not activate via a switch which is seen by the MPU's program which fires the coil - instead, the switches directly fire their associated coils via some logic gates on the main board. The main disadvantage with this system is that the solenoids fire continuously as long as their activation switch is closed; a locked on sling or pop will burn out components quickly. It is recommended to add a 1, 1.5, or 2 amp inline fuse to each coil on a directly fired system 11 game. Usually just the pops and slings are direct fired coils, however, other coils were designated to the special solenoids. Later System 11 games did not use the direct fire solenoid switches, switches on the switch matrix were used instead."

I need to look into the situation a bit further. Regardless a new set of bumper coils will be on the replacement parts list.

#721 4 years ago

The infamous coil meltdown.

#722 4 years ago
Quoted from ReadyPO:

Ha! Actually, my plastics are pretty good except for two pieces - the Sniper Tower plastic, which is now removed for the Sniper Tower Mod, and the shooter lane plastic, broke when I got the pin and not yet fixed. I would be interested in just that one ...[quoted image]

If we (mainly you ) are lucky, I can do something.

#723 4 years ago

Why can't I ring my bell?

A quick inspection provides clues.

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Wires that lack a connection and it appears something is missing. According to the manual I need a 0.1 uf 500V ceramic capacitor. There may be other reasons for lack of function, but this is a start.

Unfortunately I placed a parts order before I realized I needed the capacitor. . . but that is ok because after working on the game today I've found a few more bits to add to order #2. Someday I will learn to be patient enough to wait until disassembly is complete to click the "submit" button.

#724 4 years ago

So what is up with our lamps/lighting?

After working thru Judge Dredd I've learned the GI can be hard on connectors. Seems System 11 games can have the same issues, often on the interconnect board in the upper cabinet.

Here is how ours looks.

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I'm thinking the speaker wire and electrical tape are questionable. I'll need to pull the board to see how the backside looks. Interestingly the input/return connector for the transformer (far right, J6) looks to have been replaced. Wires were also spliced into the transformer wires to fit each pin on the connector (vs. looping them around). . . I give credit for the effort but the presentation is a little rough (more electrical tape). We can fix that.

Looking under the playfield what do we see. . .

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Alligator clips to power our slingshot GI? What are we, savages?

That is not all. Up in the far right corner I see a dangling connector and wire nuts splicing wires together. I look closer and there is a GI Relay board the aforementioned connector should plug into -- but its missing the relay. I can also see where the spliced wires came from.

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Luckily the relay was included in my first parts order -- hopefully I can rebuild the board and get all these issues resolved. I need to do a little more testing before pulling the interconnect, but I'll be sure to post more pics when I do.

#725 4 years ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:I need to do a little more testing before pulling the interconnect, but I'll be sure to post more pics when I do.

The interconnect board on our Taxi we just picked up must have some cold solder joints on it. I can wiggle the connectors on it while powered up and some of the GI lights flicker on and off so I'll definitely be pulling all the boards to reflow all of the header pins. In my experience with our Big Guns, and Cyclone these sys11 boards are loaded with cold solder joints.

-Paul

#726 4 years ago

The more I learn about these games the more I realize how little I know.

I learned that Taxi actually has two GI Relay boards -- one for the playfield and one for the upper cabinet. At least there should be a second one in the upper cabinet. . . . it appears the relay bandit has struck again on this game, only this time he/she snagged the entire board.

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I am not aware of any current aftermarket suppliers for this board now that Great Lakes Modular is no longer accepting orders.

Perhaps it is time to post another Want Ad in the Pinside Classifieds.

#727 4 years ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

The more I learn about these games the more I realize how little I know.
I learned that Taxi actually has two GI Relay boards -- one for the playfield and one for the upper cabinet. At least there should be a second one in the upper cabinet. . . . it appears the relay bandit has struck again on this game, only this time he/she snagged the entire board.
[quoted image]
I am not aware of any current aftermarket suppliers for this board now that Great Lakes Modular is no longer accepting orders.
Perhaps it is time to post another Want Ad in the Pinside Classifieds.

Maybe dc2010 has one?

#728 4 years ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Maybe dc2010 has one?

If it interchanges maybe, if it is specific to Taxi no

#729 4 years ago

I have a couple leads / may know a guy. . . and I didn't even have to post my want ad!

Will post back should things work out.

#730 4 years ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

I am not aware of any current aftermarket suppliers for this board now that Great Lakes Modular is no longer accepting orders.
Perhaps it is time to post another Want Ad in the Pinside Classifieds.

I have a spare from my Jokerz if you want it. PM me and we can work out the details.

#731 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Frog:

I have a spare from my Jokerz if you want it. PM me and we can work out the details.

You are too kind good sir. I will definitely keep you in mind if my source does not work out -- I may also be able to pick up a blank interconnect board at the same time which I think would be nice to have on hand given how often the originals get abused.

#732 4 years ago

Playfield teardown has begun and the work table is filling up fast!

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#733 4 years ago

Pulled the interconnect board today.

A couple pictures to highlight some prior work done on the board.

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A closer inspection of the ceramic resistors shows R9 has a broken connection at one end. The back of the board suggests that R10 was rather warm at one time. Thinking I may replace the resistors while I have the board out.

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Luckily the prior work just appears hacky and hopefully I can rebuild the board back to full function with new header pins. Looks like I have a date with the desoldering gun and iron later tonite. . . after Mrs.TractorDoc goes to sleep.

#734 4 years ago

Out with the old, soldered in the new. Header pins and relay anyway -- will need to acquire some new resistors.

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#735 4 years ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

Pulled the interconnect board today.
A couple pictures to highlight some prior work done on the board.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
A closer inspection of the ceramic resistors shows R9 has a broken connection at one end. The back of the board suggests that R10 was rather warm at one time. Thinking I may replace the resistors while I have the board out.
[quoted image]
Luckily the prior work just appears hacky and hopefully I can rebuild the board back to full function with new header pins. Looks like I have a date with the desoldering gun and iron later tonite. . . after Mrs.TractorDoc goes to sleep.

just dealt with this same hack on a whirlwind. unbelievable.

#736 4 years ago

Sunday mornings are a great time to disassemble and clean drop target assemblies.

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No translucent targets for Taxi, but I did splurge and purchase a set of new decals for the targets. The repros are not the exact size as the originals, so its best to install a new decal next to an original for proper placement. I almost had part numbers exposed above the playfield!

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Finished products. The Pinbot decals actually cleaned up well enough to leave the originals in place.

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Nothing is more satisfying than the swift snap and click of a clean drop target falling.

#737 4 years ago

Playfield is more or less stripped down as far as I plan to go. I couldn't resist putting that 5" rubber in place.

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Whilst I wait for parts to arrive I thought I'd give cleaning dirtier areas of the playfield a try. I never have been very good at cleaning out ground in dirt, but I admit I've never been very aggressive in my efforts. I was always worried I'd strip away paint and make things worse. I did not think I had much to lose on this playfield though so I gave it a go.

Note area just to the right of the mylar heading to the inlane/outlane:

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After some alcohol/magic eraser action. Not perfect, but I have to admit it looks better.

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Several good coats of wax followed.

I broke several stud posts, screws, and had some compromised T-nuts during the removal process so its time to dig into my pinball stockpile for reinforcements. After some tumbling and cleaning the process of playfield population can begin.

#738 4 years ago

It's time to scan your plastics. You know what I mean
Nice yellow...

#739 4 years ago

My first parts order has arrived, so today the new pop bumper coils were swapped in.

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I also focused some attention on the GI wiring. A pic of the supply/return wires that connect to the transformer. While technically the modifications do follow the guidelines as suggested on the PinWiki pages I think the presentation could be improved.

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I searched thru my stockpile of harness wires that I saved from parted out playfields (the harnesses had been cut ) but could not find matching colors for yellow and yellow/white stripe. I did elect to keep stripes and solids for their respective source wires. . . hopefully my color choices will not be offensive to a future owner.

I cut a small section of new wire, stripped some insulation out at the center, and then bent it into a "U." I connected the transformer wires to the stripped insulation area to turn the "U" into a "Y" and soldered the two wires together. New pins were crimped onto both ends of the new wire. Remember to slide your heat shrink tubing on before soldering!

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Repeat three more times and fit pins into a new connector.

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While working in the area I crimped new pins on the GI wires. . . now to try and remember which position each wire sits in the connector!

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I'll be patiently waiting for my new ceramic resistors to arrive to finish off the interconnect board; in the meantime I can start to repopulate the playfield to pass the time.

#740 4 years ago

My friend recommended to try this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=7Wh5gM8GM70

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#741 4 years ago

Some new resistors arrived (Thanks G-P-E ) and were swapped in for their compromised equivalents.

Interconnect board then installed back into the cabinet.

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Plugged in the game, held my breath, and flipped on the power switch.

Lights!

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Every socket is working. . . except for those lower right slingshot lamps. I had removed the alligator clips but had not yet soldered the GI wiring back. Five minutes later. . .

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That looks better.

I've also been adding a few things to the playfield while waiting on shipping. I chose to run the solenoid/flasher tests while I had the game on -- all the flashers work ok and almost all the solenoids. The lower pop bumper did not actuate during the test -- this was the coil that had the melted sleeve. The coil is getting power and is not locking on. . . some more research will be done to try and determine the source of the problem.

#742 4 years ago

Most playfield pieces are back in position and several games have been played!

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Still several bugs to work out -- mostly the nonfunctional center/lower pop bumper.
I've done some reading/research on the "Special Solenoids" of this era of game. If the actuation switch stuck closed or if a component along the activation pathway became compromised the coil could lock on and cause some pieces to become toasty.

A quick look at the CPU board suggests such events may have taken place here in the past. The components above Q73 have obviously been replaced. . . but my problem involves the transistor Q77 and bits above.

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The coil does not activate in test mode or during game play. I have power to the coil and can activate it by grounding transistor Q77. I had ordered some of the TIP122 resistors but had not thought to acquire the other pieces (resistors, integrated circuit, etc.) -- it seems a third parts order may be necessary if more than just my transistor is bad. I'm thinking that more than my transistor will be bad.

1 week later
#743 3 years ago

A quick Taxi update.

The bell has a new capacitor and the GI Relay board for the playfield is wired back in.

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I'm still trying to debug my lower pop bumper locking on but have a few potential problem areas to investigate. I do enjoy a challenge but I enjoy the sweet taste of victory more.

#744 3 years ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

Most playfield pieces are back in position and several games have been played!
[quoted image]

Check out the stainless ball guide just to the right of the Gorbie insert. The way it looks the ball will travel down the guide, and bounce off the backside of the post rubber that's in front of it (like it does on mine). Maybe a bend towards the center of the playfield will make the transition smooth.

Great progress!

-Paul

1 week later
#745 3 years ago

Thought it was about time for another Taxi update.

Off and on I've been trying to resolve the issue of the lower pop bumper locking on.

I have to take a moment to thank Pinsider DumbAss -- not only was he a source for a new GI Relay board but he has also walked me thru/educated me on the topic of System 11 Special Solenoids. GRUMPY was willing to provide me with sound advice as well. Two GREAT pinball people with a wealth of knowledge that helped me solve (hopefully!) this problem.

Before I get too far into things let me say that my terms/explanations may not be 100% perfect. Sometimes I struggle a bit with the vocabulary but try to present a situation as my mind sees it -- hopefully in a way that makes sense.

If I backtrack a bit, you'll remember that the lower pop (or jet) bumper coil had obviously locked on at some time in this game's past as it had melted the coil sleeve inside it. I replaced the coil and made sure the actuation switch was set correctly but still saw no action as there were other components to fix on the CPU board. I started with replacing components related to Solenoid #21 -- specifically Transistor Q77 and Q76 that supply a path to ground for the coil when Q76 switches Q77 "on".

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After replacing those components the lower bumper would immediately lock on when the game was powered on. The Q77 Transistor was now able to send the coil current to ground, but was doing so when it was not supposed to. Looking at the resistors I thought R104 looked a bit toasty and replaced it even though it tested fine. . . with no change. Yes, I did not have the extra appropriate spec resistors so I borrowed them from solenoid #22 which is not used in Taxi.

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At one point DumbAss directed me to differentiate between a board problem vs. a playfield/switch problem. To do this I pulled the switch connector coming from the playfield off the CPU and powered the game on. The coil locked on immediately, telling me a problem was still present on the board. My next step was to replace U50. To be honest, my understanding of the current/signal paths gets a bit fuzzy once the chips start getting involved, but U50 is an integrated circuit NOR Gate. I think of it as a hallway with a bunch of doors -- some for current entering and some for leaving to/from other parts on the board. U50 is what signals Q76 to open Q77's path to ground. Instead of just replacing the chip I chose to put a socket in first, then a new 7402 IC.

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When the CPU was put back into place and once the game was powered on I thought the problem was fixed. . . but after a few minutes I was proven wrong. I was actually able to play a game or two but before long I noticed the bottom coil had locked on again. Something had caused our Q77 transistor to fail again. My next step was to replace the flyback diode (D20) on the Auxiliary Driver Board -- the original tested ok but it was an easy swap just in case it was wavering.

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Power the game up. . . play a few games. . . and then still the same result -- lower coil locks on.

At this stage I'm trying to decide if the issue is farther upstream on the CPU board or maybe, just maybe there is another issue on the switch/playfield area. I examined the switch contact spacing and made sure nothing was binding that could cause the switch to stick closed. It was after reading thru a number of archived Pinside posts that I directed my attention to the electrolytic capacitor on the actuation switch. I read that if the capacitor has shorted it can cause the coil to lock on, so I reasoned that if this one was near failure and it was only after it warmed up that perhaps the short was happening. So I snipped one leg of the capacitor free from the switch.

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Powered the game on. . . and proceeded to play for a half hour or more with no coil locking on!

I will order some new capacitors to replace the originals (22uf 100V). In the end I believe there were a number of issues with my game that caused improper function of the coil and it was very satisfying to work thru each area/component to find the solution -- even if it took a couple weeks of working on the game here and there.

Once again I cannot thank DumbAss and GRUMPY enough -- it just goes to show that you can't judge a Pinsider by his username. I'd say both are rather intelligent and quite pleasant to talk to.

#746 3 years ago

Nice! I’m redoing mine right now. Waiting on my new posts to get here so I can proceed farther. They were supposed to be here yesterday but USPS wasn’t able to do it this time. Should be here tomorrow. Mine was too far gone in the way of peeled art on inserts and wear up at the top I just did a hardtop. It looks incredible and can’t wait to see what it plays like!

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#747 3 years ago

A couple days in and Taxi is still playing well.

Being more of a player's condition game I'll probably not attempt a photo shoot to highlight the playfield wear. Instead I tried a couple pics with a new GoPro camera to get a feel for how it (the camera) works. Perhaps one day I can graduate to pinball video. . . but I'll start with pictures first.

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#748 3 years ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

A couple days in and Taxi is still playing well.
Being more of a player's condition game I'll probably not attempt a photo shoot to highlight the playfield wear. Instead I tried a couple pics with a new GoPro camera to get a feel for how it (the camera) works. Perhaps one day I can graduate to pinball video. . . but I'll start with pictures first.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Wow, that's a serious flood damage, the warpage of cabinet is amazing

#749 3 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

Wow, that's a serious flood damage, the warpage of cabinet is amazing

1 week later
#750 3 years ago

For the time being Taxi seems to be operating much better than before.
I think its time to stop the meter on that project and start thinking about what comes next.

I am fortunate to have options -- I've managed to squirrel away several project games over the last year or two. There is a Bally Medusa that was purchased disassembled and brought home in boxes. A Stern Seawitch sits in my garage with very little paint left on the playfield. An excellent hardtop candidate in the form of a Bally Frontier is in the corner of the workshop. I think those options will have to wait just a bit longer.

I do believe its time to give attention to an Earthshaker in need of a new foundation. System 11 stuff is still fresh in the mind so no better time than now, right? This project was supposed to get started once I had finished with Fathom, but I think it was Judge Dredd that bumped it from its spot.

More details to come. I'm thinking about how I want to approach the process and which issues to address first.

Attaching a picture for a taste of what is coming. I think the expression on Mr. Sun's face describes the condition of the playfield better than I can describe it!

5J5A9481 (resized).JPG5J5A9481 (resized).JPG
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