(Topic ID: 231017)

Diving into another Classic Bally - I cannot FATHOM what might go wrong!


By TractorDoc

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 490 posts
  • 70 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 hours ago by TractorDoc
  • Topic is favorited by 65 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 612 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

5J5A2375 (resized).JPG
5J5A2377 (resized).JPG
5J5A2367 (resized).JPG
5J5A2374 (resized).JPG
5J5A2368 (resized).JPG
5J5A2297 (resized).JPG
Screenshot_20191009-012703~2 (resized).png
IMG_0987 (resized).jpg
5J5A2275 (resized).JPG
5J5A2271 (resized).JPG
B7E924BD-7565-4E75-93D6-128907CE1040.gif
5J5A2270 (resized).JPG
5J5A2267 (resized).JPG
5J5A2264 (resized).JPG
5J5A2266 (resized).JPG
5J5A2263 (resized).JPG

Topic index (key posts)

5 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

There are 490 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 10.
#451 49 days ago

Wow. That coin door is amazing! I love those style doors.

#452 48 days ago
Quoted from tandem2:

Hope your Corgi is doing well.

Thanks Jody!
The pooch is getting around a bit better; he is even learning to use the makeshift ramp I put together to get outdoors.

5J5A0774 (resized).JPG

Some progress continues on the display panel. New bayonet lamp sockets ready to install.

5J5A0767 (resized).JPG

Sockets stapled in. Whats up with that blue wire on the upper right?

5J5A0768 (resized).JPG

I decided to use some insulated tinned wire (vs. bare) to wire in the sockets. I thought blue was a good color choice.

5J5A0769 (resized).JPG

Small areas of insulation were stripped away where the wire will be soldered to the socket.

5J5A0770 (resized).JPG

All wires routed and stapled in place; I plan to get the soldering done this weekend.

5J5A0772 (resized).JPG

#453 47 days ago

Took advantage of some free time today and soldered in the new lamp sockets as well as the GI wiring.

5J5A0783 (resized).JPG

Carried the panel over to the shop and eventually mounted it into the upper cabinet.

5J5A0785 (resized).JPG5J5A0786 (resized).JPG

Some time back I had picked up some Blue LED Displays from Pinitech / Acebathound . After many months hiding in a box it was nice to bring them out and get them mounted in the display panel. I like the idea that they run off the Five Volt Power and should eliminate the need for the higher voltage used to run the plasma displays.

5J5A0787 (resized).JPG

A back panel view with most everything mounted in place.

5J5A0790 (resized).JPG

#454 47 days ago

I also spent a few extra minutes checking over the wiring connections. After the third run thru I held my breath and flipped the power switch. All test points check good on the Power Supply Board and the Display Panel/Coin Door GI have power! I must have wired in those new sockets the correct way.

5J5A0788 (resized).JPG

Before closing up for the day I couldn't resist dropping the backglass into place.

5J5A0796 (resized).JPG

I am close to the point where the cabinet is about done. There is some work to do on the boards but I can accomplish that at home in the night time hours. The playfield has been utilized as a bit of a table with boxes of new parts, small tools, and other supplies stacked upon it. A new place will need to be found to store those boxes. . . we need to fill that big hole in our refurbished cabinet!

#455 47 days ago

Is that back glass Repro. ?

#456 47 days ago
Quoted from freddy:

Is that back glass Repro. ?

That one is.

The original is safely boxed up until I get the machine in a more complete state. Thought the repro could be a good temporary fill in for now. . . in case I do something dumb (like drop it) while accessing the upper cabinet internals.

I often wonder if the real Declaration of Independence or Mona Lisa are really on display or if look a likes are. . . . obviously the repros of those look much more like the real thing.

Good Eye!

#457 45 days ago

Rolled the playfield out yesterday to begin the teardown process.

5J5A0857 (resized).JPG

Overall the playfield is not in terrible condition, but it does show its age. The most obvious issue is the difference in color between mylar/non-mylared areas. Baby blue I like, the yellowish green not so much.

5J5A0858 (resized).JPG

I took many, many pictures while removing pieces from the surface. I will post some of them in the Fathom shop out archive and spare you from having to scroll thru them here. More areas of color difference were visible as parts were removed.

5J5A0912 (resized).JPG

Most of the easy stuff has been removed from the playing surface. Next is the daunting task of disassembling the underside. . . another one of those jobs I am unexperienced in but still looking forward to.

5J5A0916 (resized).JPG

If I keep doing this sort of work I will build a rotisserie one day, I know it would make this next part of the job much easier.

#458 45 days ago

Almost forgot!

I refurbished the original coin box and parked it in its spot.

5J5A0909 (resized).JPG

If you've noticed the gold hued leg bolts do not worry, they are not staying. One of the consequences of installing the cabinet protectors/new leg mounting plates was the standard size leg bolts were too short. I sourced these from the bolt bin for now; picking up a proper size set in stainless is on the to do list.

#459 45 days ago

I got lucky, full Mylar up to just below ABC lanes.

Quoted from TractorDoc:

Rolled the playfield out yesterday to begin the teardown process.
[quoted image]
Overall the playfield is not in terrible condition, but it does show its age. The most obvious issue is the difference in color between mylar/non-mylared areas. Baby blue I like, the yellowish green not so much

9B762C7D-358E-4339-9FCC-F77D7A731655 (resized).jpeg
#460 44 days ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

If you've noticed the gold hued leg bolts do not worry, they are not staying.

I actually almost said something but figured I missed you addressing this earlier, I did not figure you had intended to stick with these monstrosities on such a thing of beauty. Thanks for clearing that up!

#461 44 days ago
Quoted from freddy:

I got lucky, full Mylar up to just below ABC lanes.

That is indeed a very nice playfield.

Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Thanks for clearing that up!

Fear not faithful followers. I may have one or two more questionable choices up my sleeve before finishing this game up but I know I can count on you all to keep me in line!

#462 44 days ago

The long holiday weekend allowed me to give the circuit boards some closer examination.

Luckily the MPU looked clean with no alkaline damage. The original battery was still attached to the board when I acquired the machine and snipping it off was one of the first things I did after unloading. I installed a NVRAM chip to eliminate the need for batteries going forward. Reflowed solder on header pins (everything pin and connector on this game still looks very clean) as well.

5J5A0827 (resized).JPG

Lamp Driver looks ok. A proper power up will be in order to test for bad transistors or SCRs. I am still on the fence about using LEDs -- if I do under the playfield I will need to install adaptors on the original board or replace it with an Alltek or equivalent. I went with LEDs on Paragon to minimize further heat hitting the inserts under the playfield and may do the same here. A quick peek under the Fathom playfield tells me that installing/changing bulbs is not something I want to do too frequently. There is still time to consider all options. . .

5J5A0832 (resized).JPG

My original Solenoid Driver. Since this picture it has received a rebuild of both the Five Volt and High Voltage sections via kits supplied from Big Daddy Electronics. In theory I could have left the High Voltage area alone with the LED displays, but now was the time to do it with the board out and it will make swapping displays easier in the future should someone want to do so.

5J5A0899 (resized).JPG

Squawk and Talk after receiving new capacitors. For the record the desoldering gun is a winner! Much less frustrating than the hand held spring sucker. If you have the budget and even do a mild to moderate amount of soldering work on your games the desoldering gun is worth the investment.

5J5A0890 (resized).JPG

MPU, SD, ST all mounted. Plugged in the Solenoid Driver and all test points check within range. Plugged in MPU and all seems well with the LED flashes.

5J5A0908 (resized).JPG

Happy with how things look for now, time to get back to the playfield. . .

#463 39 days ago

Some busy days at work and attending the Cleveland Show have kept me out of the shop this week.

I have removed several of the drop target banks from the playfield and I am rotating the parts thru the tumbler/polishing process. Today I hope to study/photograph everything else on the bottom side of the playfield and make another parts list. T-nuts, switches, lamp sockets that were out of stock last time, etc.; still plenty that I need.

I am excited to hear that Mk1Mod0 will be making Fathom playfield harnesses in the next couple months. I am thinking it might be nice to start fresh with a new harness on the new CPR playfield. . . and I can leave the old harness in place as a reference.

I have been working on something that may or may not go over well with everyone, time will tell. At risk of upsetting some purists, here is my pitch.

Everyone admires Fathom for its artwork among other things. Of course I do not plan on changing any of that but there is still that crazy part of me that thinks I can tweak things a bit more to my liking. I've always thought the white "123" drop targets looked a bit out of place in the middle of the playfield surrounded by various underwater blues, greens, etc.

When Zitt started offering translucent Bally drop targets at www.Pinball-Mods.com I thought they might be worth trying here. The plain, empty targets would not be enough and I thought of making decals of various sea creatures in the shapes of a one, two, or three. That might really be crossing a line, so instead I went back to the original style numbers but instead of sticking some decals on the translucent targets I hired my coworker friend that recently acquired an engraver. Several targets were sacrificed in the effort but after some trial and error the numbers were successfully "melted" into the targets.

The middle set of targets in the pic have the numbers etched in but they are not really visible. I thought of painting in the numbers, but remembered I had some silver metal foil from my model car building days (to add chrome to bumpers, etc.). It took some digging but found the foil and applied it to the numbers to match the metallic silver color on the game's other drop targets.

5J5A0030A (resized).JPG

Heresy you say? Maybe. I need to see what these will look like on the playfield before I decide to stick with them.
Sometimes it is not necessary to reinvent the wheel. . . but one never knows until they try, right?

#464 39 days ago

If only there was a way to light the clear targets up with the appropriate colors??

2_SMD_Flex_360x (resized).png
#465 34 days ago
Quoted from Tallon:

If only there was a way to light the clear targets up with the appropriate colors??

I have some thoughts on the lighting bit. It will be a challenge due to a lack of holes in that area giving access to the underside of the playfield. I don't plan on drilling any new holes either!

I will be tied up with other projects for the next number of days, but wanted to post a couple pictures of several reassembled drop target assemblies. Not perfect, but after tumbling and hand polishing they are looking much more respectable. Next up will be the drop banks with the solenoid coils -- there is a bit more to keep track of on those.

5J5A0971 (resized).JPG5J5A0974 (resized).JPG5J5A0975 (resized).JPG

In case it was not obvious, I took over the kitchen table during reassembly.

#466 34 days ago

I will hold judgement until the drops are installed... I'm skeptical at the moment as I like the look of the stark white targets in the middle of the playfield, I understand your point of view though, I just like the white I put the clear drops on my TWD and think they look great with the decals on them so I am open minded on the subject.

#467 34 days ago
Quoted from roar:

I will hold judgement until the drops are installed... I'm skeptical at the moment as I like the look of the stark white targets in the middle of the playfield, I understand your point of view though, I just like the white

Completely understand.
I go back and forth myself, but I want to see them installed before I decide as well.

One could ask what is the point with the white pop bumper bases/bodies right behind the drop targets too. I thought I was going to be clever and use the translucent blue pop bumper body from www.pinball-mods.com until I remembered that the bodies on this game are wider/have the special clips to hold the caps on. I've since ordered new bodies. I have discovered that the white bases (part # C-971-5) are no longer sold thru most of the online parts vendors. I have not e-mailed PBR yet and the only in stock option I've found is in Europe. Mine may have to be reused -- they are no longer the pristine white as they were when new. Not sure if painting them is a good option as I believe the ball comes in contact there and chipping may be an issue.

pasted_image (resized).png

We shall see in time. I'm sure we will figure it out.

#468 34 days ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

Mine may have to be reused -- they are no longer the pristine white as they were when new. Not sure if painting them is a good option as I believe the ball comes in contact there and chipping may be an issue

Have you considered vinyl dye? They sell it for working with car interior parts. It's supposed to bond better to plastic and actually "soak in", so to speak. I believe they sell it in spray cans.

#469 33 days ago
Quoted from LynnInDenver:

Have you considered vinyl dye? They sell it for working with car interior parts. It's supposed to bond better to plastic and actually "soak in", so to speak. I believe they sell it in spray cans.

In the automotive world I've used the SEM line of paints for vinyl and plastics -- there is even a plastic promoter pre-spray to help with adhesion. It may be something to give some consideration.

#470 33 days ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

In the automotive world I've used the SEM line of paints for vinyl and plastics -- there is even a plastic promoter pre-spray to help with adhesion. It may be something to give some consideration.

install lighting under 123 drops it may illuminate up thru like a fiber optic so to speak

#471 29 days ago
Quoted from LynnInDenver:

Have you considered vinyl dye?

I often use RIT clothes dye on my nylon, not sure if the pop bump bodies are same chemical makeup as Nylon though.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/polishing-up-a-silverball-mania#post-3795182

Sample image attached from Motordome, link from SBM.

20190129_205016 (resized).jpg
#473 24 days ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Any new pics? I can't wait!

No new pinball pics. I was in Wyoming last week. Here are a couple from Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons though.

5J5A2224A (resized).JPG5J5A1160A (resized).JPG5J5A1744A (resized).JPG5J5A2042A (resized).JPG5J5A1135A (resized).JPG5J5A1081A (resized).JPG
#474 23 days ago

My mother was there too last week. She had a great trip. Your photos look great. She sent a few photos to us that were beautiful as well.

#475 23 days ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

Removed as much as I could from the upper playfield yesterday.
The wire guides were looking quite dirty and gritty so I decided to pull them for a proper cleaning. I know it is covered in Vid's guide but I do not have wi-fi in the shop to look it up so I used a simple lever system to work the wires upward (Vid may suggest the very same thing). A block of wood (to protect the playfield surface) and a proper lever raise the wire easily.
[quoted image]
I was happy that these are the smooth wires and do not have the barb down into the playfield.
[quoted image]
There were also several pins in various spots on the playfield (and a couple of finish nails near the slingshots?).
[quoted image]
A different kind of lever was needed to pull those -- gently squeezing the pin in the bite of the pliers while lifting the handles/pointing the plier tips into the wood pulled the pins right out.
[quoted image]
The biff bars at the lower playfield took a more delicate approach -- I used the same lever principle being very careful not to hit the playfield surface with the screwdriver.
[quoted image]
All extracted and ready for a cleaning.
[quoted image]
After pulling several switches, slingshots, etc. from below the only pieces remaining on the surface are the bumper units, drop targets, and kickout coil. I had left my soldering station at home so I will try to remove those today. The plan is to pull the playfield from the cabinet and move it over to the work bench to better clean and examine the underside. The more I remove from the surface the more I am temped to give it a clear coat. . . several areas of mylar are making me think twice though.
[quoted image]
I also had a helper today. She had no problem jumping right in to inspect my work.
[quoted image]

I have the same kind of helper around my shop too. Better with the mice than a screwdriver, but he does like to inspect my work.

#476 22 days ago

Time for a pinball related update. Last year I picked up a CPR Fathom Gold Playfield knowing that mine looked a bit worn and was going to be more than I could handle in terms of restoring. Brought it out in the light of day for a bit today.

5J5A2243 (resized).JPG

As you can see by the signature I sent it to Ron Kruzman for clear coating. Thought I'd let the perfectionist get his hands on this one!

5J5A2249 (resized).JPG

I was not really a fan of the gray sealer (or the bare wood under the pops) so I found a can of aqua/turquoise color paint leftover from the house and added a bit of color to the underside. I used one of those skinny rollers and the trick was to go slow with just a little paint at a time to avoid it running down the holes/inserts. Of course I left Ron's signing in place. . . might have to add my own on there somewhere.

5J5A2251 (resized).JPG

Soon I should be able to start adding lamp sockets/braid wire. . . if I ordered enough of the correct pieces!

#477 22 days ago

Man I was going to paint the underside of my Mata Hari playfield Red before I add the hardtop. I’ve been afraid to pull the trigger on it because I was wondering if people would hate it. But now I’m saying you inspired me and direct all concerns your way haha so glad you did this with the underside! I love watching your progress.

#478 16 days ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

I’ve been afraid to pull the trigger on it because I was wondering if people would hate it. But now I’m saying you inspired me and direct all concerns your way haha so glad you did this with the underside! I love watching your progress.

I'd say go for it. Its your machine, make it how you like it.

I think the underside looks nice with a touch of color, alternatively if someone wanted to go the other way they could sand down to wood grain and apply a stain/sealer. Given the water theme I thought Fathom would look better in blue.

I have been looking at my original color choice and decided I could do better. In giving a sneak peek of things to come I test fit one of the flipper mechanisms with new coil wrappers installed -- I did not like the difference between the wrapper and playfield color. I took one of my wrappers to the paint counter and they matched the color/filled a sample jar (open lid at left).

5J5A2259 (resized).JPG

I sanded the bottom of the playfield once more and rolled on a quick coat of "Coil Wrapper Blue."

5J5A2263 (resized).JPG

I like the result and I'm glad I took the time to change things up.

5J5A2260 (resized).JPG

Other progress included creating an extensive list of needed parts, filling my online cart, and holding my breath while clicking the "Submit Order" button as I know two days from now I will come up with one more piece that I need. . .

Removal and cleaning of other pieces from the original playfield has occurred; a more detailed post about that will be soon coming.

#479 15 days ago

Man doing an amazing job! Enjoy seeing the progress.

#480 14 days ago
Quoted from bssbllr:

Man doing an amazing job! Enjoy seeing the progress.

Thanks for that. I'll try to keep updates coming; I'm admittedly less efficient right now as I'm trying to take my time and document every little detail as I remove pieces from the playfield/wiring harness.

A collection of coils that have been removed.

5J5A2264 (resized).JPG

I decided to dip my toe into new waters once again and picked up one of the 2.5L Ultrasonic Cleaners from Harbor Freight. I thought I'd try it for cleaning the coils/other small parts. Typically I am a "You get what you pay for" kind of guy and did not expect a lot from this little unit. I was impressed though by the cloud of dust that floated off the coils into the solution even on the first cycle. I removed the paper backings before putting the coils in, just in case you wanted to know.

5J5A2266 (resized).JPG

Several cycles later and I have to admit. . . things look much cleaner. Most noticeable was the linear slingshot arm, it nearly shines! The flipper bat I had dunked in still retained some yellowing but I wonder if a couple shakes of OxyClean could help with that. . .

5J5A2267 (resized).JPG

I took over the kitchen table to check coil resistance and apply new coil wrappers.

5J5A2270 (resized).JPG

Just in case you want to check the resistance of your coils here is a link:

https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html

If you'd like to print your own coil wrappers here is Inkochnito 's website:

http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/

#481 14 days ago

Me watching this thread.
B7E924BD-7565-4E75-93D6-128907CE1040.gif
Coils in the ultrasonic! Amazing.

#482 11 days ago

Another snail's pace update.

I am replacing some of the switches as needed -- flipper switches and the slingshot switches for sure -- but many of the others are very clean and should still be serviceable. I have decided to replace the diodes/capacitors on the switches; I know the old Bally capacitors have a history of unreliability but I've also had hit and miss luck with some of the original style diodes as well.

It can be difficult to tell but I think the banded side on the originals solders into the side tab on these drop target switches. Sometimes I think I can see a band on the original diodes but sometimes not. Checking the archives and photos of other restorations shows the band on the 1N4004 diodes at the side tab. . . so we will go with it. As you can see my strategy of using zip ties to keep the switch stacks together is paying off.

5J5A2271 (resized).JPG

The first drop target with memory coils is reassembled. . . now I can take the second one apart for its turn in the tumbler. I only took one apart at a time so I could use the other as a reference for reassembly.

5J5A2275 (resized).JPG

#483 11 days ago

That is one damn fine looking assembly!

#484 11 days ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

Another snail's pace update.
I am replacing some of the switches as needed -- flipper switches and the slingshot switches for sure -- but many of the others are very clean and should still be serviceable. I have decided to replace the diodes/capacitors on the switches; I know the old Bally capacitors have a history of unreliability but I've also had hit and miss luck with some of the original style diodes as well.
It can be difficult to tell but I think the banded side on the originals solders into the side tab on these drop target switches. Sometimes I think I can see a band on the original diodes but sometimes not. Checking the archives and photos of other restorations shows the band on the 1N4004 diodes at the side tab. . . so we will go with it. As you can see my strategy of using zip ties to keep the switch stacks together is paying off.
[quoted image]
The first drop target with memory coils is reassembled. . . now I can take the second one apart for its turn in the tumbler. I only took one apart at a time so I could use the other as a reference for reassembly.
[quoted image]

I checked a Bally drop target assembly that I just went through and the banded sides of the diodes are definitely connected to the switch side tabs.

IMG_0987 (resized).jpg
#486 11 days ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

Another snail's pace update.
I am replacing some of the switches as needed -- flipper switches and the slingshot switches for sure -- but many of the others are very clean and should still be serviceable. I have decided to replace the diodes/capacitors on the switches; I know the old Bally capacitors have a history of unreliability but I've also had hit and miss luck with some of the original style diodes as well.
[quoted image]

You mention replacing the flipper switches, don't forget the cabinet switches, too. Both the flipper EOS and cabinet switches are high power switches and are usually in really rough shape. My guess is that your drop target switches will probably work just fine, rarely had one of those fail to score as they are held closed--except for some diodes failing. If any of the rollover switches have any gold flashing missing, do yourself a favor and just replace them. Yeah, those old Bally caps fail quite often and I replace those and all the diodes, too. So easy to replace them now rather than later.

#487 8 days ago

Got any more of those fathom pics??

Screenshot_20191009-012703~2 (resized).png
#488 8 days ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Got any more of those fathom pics??

Nothing special. Just the dining room table taken over by cleaned and rebuilt parts.

5J5A2297 (resized).JPG
#489 8 days ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

Just the dining room table taken over by cleaned and rebuilt parts.

Dining rooms are overrated! Just call it the work room, problem solved!

1 week later
#490 3 hours ago

From out last update until now I've managed to polish/rebuild the second memory drop target bank and I've moved onto the pop bumper units. I've done the work to the first pop while the other two remained assembled. Inefficient yes, but at least I have good references for part locations.

I cleaned the first base in the ultrasonic cleaner initially with Simple Green then a second run with just water and Oxyclean. It did not come out pearly white but I think respectable enough to be reused.

5J5A2368 (resized).JPG

A tad bit frustrating to find that our pop bumper base does not fit in the openings of the CPR playfield. Perhaps some clear coat thickened the openings up just enough; I will try to gently sand the wood opening to create the needed clearance.

5J5A2367 (resized).JPG

I polished up my new bumper rings on the compounding wheel. So shiny!

5J5A2374 (resized).JPG

Our first assembled pop bumper unit.

5J5A2375 (resized).JPG

As of right now I decided to go with a blue bumper skirt. I would have liked to use a translucent blue color but I am not aware of anyone offering/selling one. I thought about adding some blue dye to a set of clear ones. . . but these solid blues actually match several blue areas on the playfield. I even had Mrs. TD give her opinion and she approved; she is much more color coordinated than I am and has a good eye for what works.

5J5A2377 (resized).JPG

Now we just repeat the effort two more times. . . then maybe start thinking about actually installing some bits on the back of that playfield!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 14.50
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
$ 149.00
There are 490 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 10.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside